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back relief on flooring.

Started by hackberry jake, August 26, 2014, 01:48:35 AM

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hackberry jake

I am going to have a pretty good jag of flooring to run pretty soon and I was trying to find an economical way to put the back relief slots in it. I tried and tried to find a router bit designed for it and failed. This is what I decided on. It is a stackable flute cutter from mlcs. The arbor assembly comes with one cutter and I purchased a second one to stack on the arbor. I like mlcs because they have free shipping on all orders. I can order a $5 high speed steel end mill for the cnc and get free shipping on it. Cant beat that. Anyways back to the back relief "flute cutter". The cutter assembly also came with a rub collar/bearing, but I will probably build a jig and just use the power feeder to push the flooring over the cutter.


 

  

  
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EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

drobertson

I agree, whatever works at this point with what you have available, should turn out fine, 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WDH

How deep of a back relief is needed to be effective?
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

hackberry jake

Quote from: WDH on August 26, 2014, 07:42:45 AM
How deep of a back relief is needed to be effective?
don't get me to lying to ya! That's a flooring sample from a big box store and it doesnt look very deep.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

tule peak timber

 

  Similar to Hackberrys design , I set up a dedicated shaper to back relief flooring using stackable heads. The trick was getting the stacking right to accept 3-7 inch wide flooring with no adjustments and the ability to go wider than 7 inch by inverting a second pass. The back groove needs to miss an angled nail on the tongue side and provide adequate support on the groove side.The custom fence provides full support for the flooring and the whole thing clips along at a pretty good rate of speed.  Works well....Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Larry

Rob, is that an Aigner fence? 
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

tule peak timber

Hi Larry, No , not an Aigner. Very similar in design , but the Aigner is adjustable-mine is not. Mine is waxed doug fir on mdf, the Aigner is all metal. Wish I could afford the Aigner at 2 bucks a copy !! ;)
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Larry

The color did look a bit different. :D  I also thought about making one but that's as far as I got. :o  I would have to mortgage the first born to buy one. ;D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

red oaks lumber

we make our back relief about 3/16" deep
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

low_48

I like to back cut with a dado head on the table saw. Even if you have to make two cuts, you can feed it way faster than a router cutter in a router. The table saw is made for longer duty cycle than a router as well.

hackberry jake

Quote from: low_48 on August 26, 2014, 02:29:38 PM
I like to back cut with a dado head on the table saw. Even if you have to make two cuts, you can feed it way faster than a router cutter in a router. The table saw is made for longer duty cycle than a router as well.
I don't like using a router for any kind of high production, but I "cheaped out" on the cutter for what might end up being the only flooring I ever make. My original plan was to use the shaper, but I couldn't find much in the way of 1-1/4" bore cutters that would work for the back of flooring. I guess I could have just used straight cutters, but for some reason I wanted the radius. Tule peak, what kind of cutters do you use on the back of your flooring?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

tule peak timber

Jake, they are straight top groovers from Freeborn Tool. 1/4 inch profile.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

mikeb1079

at the risk of sounding daft......

what is the point of the back relief anyway?  does it really make a difference?  really?
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

beenthere

Likely removing some of the surface wood on the backside of flooring will decrease/lessen any effect on shrinking/swelling when MC changes occur. If that is true, then there would be less potential for cupping and the flooring would lay flatter (IMO).

And it identifies which side should be up when laying the flooring.  ;D

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

LeeB

From what I have read, it also lessens the chance of squeaking caused by uneven contact with the subfloor.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

jdtuttle

I have in the past used a table saw. You can buy a molding kit that has interchangeable knives, look on amazon. The one I have has a v knife that works well. You'll have to make more than one pass. I use mine all the time when I dont't want to set up my PH260.
Jim
Have a great day

Bill Gaiche

Jim, the V groove on a table saw is a good idea. I would think a person could build a 2 V cutter somehow for the table saw. bg

beenthere

Quote from: LeeB on August 27, 2014, 02:08:45 AM
From what I have read, it also lessens the chance of squeaking caused by uneven contact with the subfloor.

My experience with squeaking oak flooring is from the house I live in and personally laid the floor.
I had the oak dried locally, and immediately made into flooring for the three bedrooms and hallway. The dried flooring stayed plastic wrapped until laying time. There wasn't enough of my oak to finish the job, but a friend had some milled at the same place a couple years prior and had extra. The extra flooring was laid in the hallway, but it was not as dry as it had acclimated to his storage area.
Point being, that the only place in the house that squeaks is that center of the hallway where the flooring boards were not as dry. Annoying, as that is the main traffic pattern. Also, the hallway is the only place where there is noticeable spacing between the flooring boards, as the rest of the rooms are still tight.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

DR_Buck

On my Woodmaster molder planer I use a straight cut or fluted cutting knife for the back of flooring or molding.    Only issue is having to reset the cutters from back to front operations.

You could also put a molding head on the table saw with fluted knives and either reverse ends or move the fence for a second pass on wider stuff.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Larry

My handy dandy cove calculator tells me I can set my table saw fence at a 3 degree angle to the blade.  Set blade height at 3/16".  That's such a small cove one could run stock through at a pretty rapid pace.  No tooling required and a two minute setup time. 

Never cut such a small cove.  Might get a little fuzz, but its a low cost idea worthy of a trial.

Corub sells cutters that would also do it for less than a twenty but one needs the right head.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

hackberry jake

Sweet idea about running a board at an angle through a table saw blade... Didn't know that was even a thing. I ran about a living rooms worth of tongue and groove using a woodmaster. My biggest problem with that setup was the woodmaster knives for tongue and groove were just one knife each of high speed steel. By the end of that run the 5hp cutterhead motor on the woodmaster was grunting trying to cut with dull knives. I try to stick with carbide tooling now if I can. And what cheaper carbide tooling than a table saw blade. I might just have to try that one out. Anybody need a new cove cutting router bit?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

36 coupe

I used 3 knives in the Belsaw. I ran thousands of feet of trim without the back relief with no problem.It takes a minute to sharpen up a single knife, try that next time.

Don_Papenburg

I run my door and window casing trim through the saw at an angle all the time . I try to leave only 1/2 inch of flat on each side .  On wider trim I will runoff to one side and make a second on the opposite side . 
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

venice

Quote from: beenthere on August 27, 2014, 12:09:30 AM
And it identifies which side should be up when laying the flooring.  ;D

;D

Beenthere, you made my morning. Any idea how to get coffee out of the keyboard?  :D

WmFritz

Quote from: venice on September 08, 2014, 05:08:38 AM
Quote from: beenthere on August 27, 2014, 12:09:30 AM
And it identifies which side should be up when laying the flooring.  ;D

;D

Beenthere, you made my morning. Any idea how to get coffee out of the keyboard?  :D

That one made me smile too.  :D



I found a small pile of some flooring in my FIL's basement. They were scraps he saved when he took up his oak floor in the bathroom to replace with ceramic tile. I'm not sure why he saved them, but while cleaning the basement last year, I planned to pull the nails in them and toss them in the wood boiler. Right after Jake started this thread, I came across the box I still have sitting here waiting for the stove. Curiously, the flooring was milled in Jakes neck of the woods. Dad built the house in 1961.
It has a little different back relief then I'm used to seeing.  I noticed the finish nail just catches the edge of the relief, as was discussed earlier.





 



  



 
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

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