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herbicide question

Started by curdog, August 19, 2014, 06:33:05 PM

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curdog

I was thinking today if arsenal could be used as a crop tree release herbicide in hardwoods if spot sprayed. It seems if you avoided the root zone of your leave trees, you could use a soil application to your trees you wanted to remove. I've always used arsenal for broadcast spraying either release or site prep. At a site prep rate of 22-24 oz/acre I've seen large timber killed with strictly soil activity alone ( foliage was above nozzle height).
So has anyone tried applying arsenal strictly onto the soil for hardwood crop tree release. I'm sure it wouldn't be safe on stands with large timber where the roots intertwined, but small timber where the roots haven't spread out much.
I haven't downloaded the data sheet yet since I'm on my phone, but I'll pull it up once I'm on the computer.
I don't know if this would even be beneficial over basal bark treatment, but it would allow you to use water as a carrier over diesel or forestry oil. Any input is appreciated.

BradMarks

No expert here, but the forestry tours I've attented definitely talk about soil activity with arsenal usage rather negatively. It will mix with water, have you tried hack & squirt rather than a basal application? Out here it is virtually all hack these days. Diesel is a no-no.  On a side note, isn't Arsenal expensive for broadcast usage??, or has it come down to earth price wise?.

curdog

Arsenal definitely has soil activity, it's like the gift that keeps on giving. But I think it's pretty stable in the soil as far as movement goes.
I've done hack and squirt, but I had in mind privet when I was thinking of this. Multiple stems and hard to really get in to them main stem or autumn olive.  Or some of the thorny species like callery pear.
I may be thinking of a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, but the more tools in the toolbox the better.
Remedy ultra/ garlon is actually labeled to be mixed with diesel for basal bark treatment.
We charge 100-150/acre for broadcast spraying of arsenal using a skidder and I think the aerial sprayers are even less. So it's not incredibly cheap, but there are cost share programs available to offset the cost. The cost share will cover 40-50% depending on the program used.

WDH

I suspect that the collateral damage would be unacceptable. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

curdog

Quote from: WDH on August 19, 2014, 08:47:33 PM
I suspect that the collateral damage would be unacceptable.
That's kinda what I'm wondering about. I think I'm going to experiment a little. There is an area behind my girlfriends house that has all kinds of invasives, so I want to see how far I need to be or how close I can get with the soil spraying. If I kill some or all it doesn't matter because she wants a clear view to the pond, so it will give me some room to play.
I think it can be sprayed fairly close. We did some mid rotation spraying in thinned loblolly. If it was 4th row thinned (crp pine) we got really good coverage broadcast spraying with the skidder. The stand we did that was 5th row thinned had one row completely unaffected from the herbicide. We drove down the thinned rows and where the herbicide stopped was obvious. The fourth row thinned tracts had an area about 1-2 foot wide where the herbicide didn't reach. But I'm not sure how close the spray reached.
But I've never read or seen any mention of this and it could be very risky.
I saw an herbicide mix at the local farm supply to spray fence lines that was Gly.and imazapyr. I've never seen movement from the fences into the pastures, so I got to thinking. Obviously that product is a lower application rate, but I would think the properties would be the same.

curdog

After thinking about this some more, I think this would be too risky in most situations. Some research says not to apply around 2x the dripline of a desirable vegetation. It seems that the herbicide does not bind with soils with a ph greater than 5 and will remain able to move freely. Some species especially legumes can exude the herbicide from there root system to surrounding vegetation. There are just too many variables that come into play to give this a reliable method of application..... I guess smarter minds than me have already thought this through and that's why its not being done :D

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