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up/down issues with 2001 WM lt40 super

Started by flatrock58, August 19, 2014, 01:24:12 PM

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flatrock58

I just bought a used 2001 LT40 Super Hydraulic mill with the Kubota 42 hp motor.  It seems to be in good shape with 918 hours total.  I have been going through it trying to fix any problems.  I am having problems with the UP/Down motor stopping when going up.  It will go up about 5-6" then stop.  The motor amps will jump from 2 amps to 10-20 amps and it will stop moving.  When it stops the Accuset reboots.  If you wait a few minutes you can go up another 5-6" before it stops again.  If you don't wait it might go 3-4".  If you don't wait and let it cool down it will end up tripping the 50 amp pop out breaker.  It will go down fine since there is less load.  The voltage is around 10-11 volts at the motor under load. 
I have checked connections and looked at the brushes.  Also greased the up/down drum switch.  It does not have any burn places that I can tell.  When going up and down there is some sparking and smoke from the brushes after running it up and down some.  I am assuming it is either a motor problem or something to do with Accuset, since it is routed through Accuset from the drum switch.  Any help would be appreciated.
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

flatrock58

2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, flatrock58.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

woodyone.john

Hi and welcome Flatrock,I have a similar vintage mill but petrol motor.Get the air compressor and blow any and all  carbon/ dust out of the up down motor and make sure the mast has been well lubed with atf. This works for me.
cheers john
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Delawhere Jack

Are the guide pads that ride on the mast adjusted properly? Three of the four upper pads should contact the mast, but you should be able to slip a business card between one of the inboard pads and the mast, same on the lower 4 pads, but the gap should be on one of the outboard pads. The manual gives more details on adjustment. If the pads are too tight, or the mast is not lubed with automatic trans fluid then the friction could cause your issue.

Welcome to the FF.

drobertson

There are a few things to check here, a call would be in order to the techs.  It's not always a dust problem or anything of the sorts, it can be, but most likely the  circuit boards that controls it all.  Simple is nice, and most times it is, it just cost at times,  anywhere from the transducer to the H-bridge, to just a simple grounding issue.
A volt meter and a tech can work you through the process.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

woodmills1

If your experience is like mine tech at mizer will treat you very well right even though you didn't buy the mill from them.  I have nothing but kudos and all thumbs up for how I have been treated by woodmizer. BTW I have purchased 2 mills, both used and neither from the company.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

flatrock58

Thank you for the welcome.

I sprayed teflon lubricant on the mast, but I will go back and check the manual to adjust  it.  The guy I bought it from said it had been stalling like this as long as he had it.  Not sure why it resets the accuset.  I took the brushes out and checked them and they look ok.  The brushes and the commutator are not too smooth.  I got the hydraulics all activating the micro switch again and hooked the debarker back up and it is running.  Just need to get the up/down figured out.
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

Dave Shepard

There are eight plastic pads on the mast. With the head all the way down, there should be one pad on the bottom that has just enough room to slide a business card between the pad and the mast. The top pads may be way off the mast, like 3/16" or so. Don't worry about that. Now run the head all the way to the top. Same deal, there should be just one pad that has a business card clearance. If you can't get a card in at those locations, then your pads are binding on the mast. If there is a bigger than a business card, then that just means you need to adjust them tighter, but don't worry about that until you fix the current problem.

My guess as the the Accuset restarting is that you are putting too great a load on the mill and drawing the voltage down far enough to trip things. As you mentioned, continued attempts to raise the head will blow the breaker, so you have too much draw. I would check the up/down gearbox to see if it is moving freely and has oil in it.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Peter Drouin

Is the battery new? It can be good to start the engine, but too low for the head to go up. :)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

flatrock58

 I will have to check the pads in a day or two.  I charged the battery good today and it is good. 

also found this wiring issue in the box beside the battery.  The grey wire between the two lugs does not look like it should be there.  Looks like they tried to bypass something.  Any idea what is going on here?



 
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

Delawhere Jack

Did you get an owners manual with the mill? If not, contact WM and they'll send you one. It's a good idea to register the mill with them also. No cost, and they keep records of what parts have been ordered for each mill.

The mast pads are a fairly simple adjustment when you've the instructions, just like everything else on a WM. Should be maybe a once a year type thing to adjust them.

BTW, a spray bottle full of ATF that has a "stream" setting is very handy for keeping the mast lubed. A little squirt around each of the mast pads a couple times a day will keep the head moving smoothly. (This tip courtesy of ole Mater-Head  materhead )

Gary_C

I've had this same problem with my LT-40 because it sits too much. The problem is the unpainted part of the uprights where the pads slide have built up rust. The solution is to get some emory cloth and sand the rust off all the unpainted part of the uprights and then lube them lightly with a light oil or hydraulic fluid. I've tried a wire brush but that does not take all the rust off.

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

flatrock58

I did get the owners manual for the mill.  Will WM have manuals for the CBN sharpener and the BMT 100? Have not seen any manuals online.  I will probably drive down to Newnan, Ga and register next week when I pick up some parts.
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

Brucer

It sure sounds like a mechanical problem to me. In other words, follow the previous advice about the pads and the mast.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

flatrock58

I will definitely work on the mast this weekend and see if I can get to move without binding up.  I don't think it has been run much lately and has been sitting outside.
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: flatrock58 on August 19, 2014, 10:37:03 PM
I will have to check the pads in a day or two.  I charged the battery good today and it is good. 

also found this wiring issue in the box beside the battery.  The grey wire between the two lugs does not look like it should be there.  Looks like they tried to bypass something.  Any idea what is going on here?



 

Looks like someone shunted across the solenoid that feeds the hydraulic box.  Just means the hydraulics have power even when the ignition key is off...shouldn't cause any problems.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

slider

Flatrock ,I had a motor fail once,the brushes looked fine but one brush spring was weak and going bad .I saw it spark with the cover off.This motor would run for a while then stop.The spring was blue due to the high amps .No more hrs on this mill leads me to think that the gear box is not the culprit .Don't forget to go over all the electrical connections especially the z fuses .They may look good but when you get them out there sometimes is oxidation or weakness due to age.I keep extras.I also replaced my battery cable ends with the ones with the studs.One other thing ,use the highest amp battery you can find.I replaced mine with a 1200 cold cranking amp.Good luck let us know.al
al glenn

pineywoods

An obvious thing, but easy to overlook, check the lube level in the up/down gearbox. Needs to be FULL, just some won't get it. WM says use ATF, I use 80W90 gear oil, not recommended in colder climates....
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Dave Shepard

Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on August 19, 2014, 11:35:28 PM
Quote from: flatrock58 on August 19, 2014, 10:37:03 PM
I will have to check the pads in a day or two.  I charged the battery good today and it is good. 

also found this wiring issue in the box beside the battery.  The grey wire between the two lugs does not look like it should be there.  Looks like they tried to bypass something.  Any idea what is going on here?



 

Looks like someone shunted across the solenoid that feeds the hydraulic box.  Just means the hydraulics have power even when the ignition key is off...shouldn't cause any problems.

It will cause problems eventually. Those big wires look like about a #4, and the jumper is about a #12. You can't move that much juice through a wire that small. If the solenoid is toast, it would have been better to move one big wire over to the other post, so it's big wire to big wire.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

sparks

The solenoid in the fuse box is for the hydraulics only. It would have no bearing on the up down. The interesting thing you said is that the Accuset screen turns off. That means we are losing power to the front panel. There is a small red wire coming off the plug of the front panel that should go to a circuit breaker. When the screen goes off see if that breaker has power on both sides. If one one side then the breaker is the issue.
\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: sparks on August 20, 2014, 12:59:52 PM
The solenoid in the fuse box is for the hydraulics only. It would have no bearing on the up down. ...

This is what I meant by "shouldn't cause any problems".   I should have been more clear on that.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

MartyParsons

QuoteNeeds to be FULL, just some won't get it. WM says use ATF, I use 80W90 gear oil, not recommended in colder climates...
Hello,
The up and down gear box should have 80W90 or 85W/140. It will not last long with ATF.  :o I change most mills during service to the 85/140. The original lube was synthetic gear oil from the Grove gear company. In other applications in a constant run this is great in our application the gear only turns for a few min and we use the resistance to hold the saw head up. So if it is too thin the saw head will drift and cause other issues.
Hope this helps.

Do you have Accuset or Accuset 2?  I would first check the ground stud at the battery, then the ground at the rear of the operator station. I have seen these bolts loose from the factory it did the exact thing.
Just guessing but something to check.

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

flatrock58

I didn't get home till late today so not much progress.  I tried sanding and oiling them with hydraulic fluid.  Still not working. 

Pineywoods, I will check the gear box oil friday. 

Slider, I will have to see about getting brushes.  The battery seems to be OK I ran it down and ahd to charge it but it is fully charged now.  I think I saw the z fuse in with the solenoid beside the battery box.  There were several attached to the lid.  Which should be used?  I already replaced the battery cable ends.

Dave, I will have to check to see if the solenoid is good and remove the jumper.  Just trying to figure out all the circuits for now.

Sparks, I have been trying to figure out why the 50 amp fuse doesn't trip if I am drawing too much current.  I noticed the motor for the power feed draws 18 amp or more when returning the saw and it does not trip.  The up motor will draw 2 amps for 5-6" then jump to 16-18 amps.  It will stop by itself 2-4 times before it finally trips the 50 amp fuse.  I am not clear what you are refering to here "There is a small red wire coming off the plug of the front panel that should go to a circuit breaker. When the screen goes off see if that breaker has power on both sides. If one one side then the breaker is the issue"

Marty, I have accuset 1.  I will check the ground, but wouldn't I have problems withe the other motors too if it were a ground issue?
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

Magicman

I had the bearing in my up/down gearbox to fail probably 8 years ago.  (The box was not completely filled and I did not know that it should be.)  The bearing failure caused all sorts of up/down problems before I finally figured out what it must be.  Since I did not know that the box should be completely filled and seeing no way for the open bearings to lube, I replaced the failed open bearings with sealed units and have been good since then.  I replaced the lube with synthetic.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Magicman

When I was looking for my problem I drained the old lube from the gearbox and noticed metal particles.  I then knew that I was on the right trail so I pulled the gearbox and cracked it open.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Magicman on August 20, 2014, 09:45:00 PM
I replaced the lube with synthetic.

I can't use synthetic in my gear box.  >:( I had problems and changed to the 80W - 140.
No problems so far.
If one puts ATF in their gear box....well......please don't.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

flatrock58

Talked to Tim in Newnan today.  Found my problem.  The 50 amp breaker was the problem.  Even though it was not tripping it was opening up enough to stop the mill.  Took the 70 amp debarker breaker and swapped it and it works fine now.

Thanks for all the help.  I am sure I will be back asking more questions.
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

Magicman

Yup, they do go bad and thanks for the report back on the fix.  I had a defective debarker breaker once.  It just would not hold.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

flatrock58

Had a good day working on the sawmill today.  Got the up/down working.  Adjusted the blade in all directions.  Adjusted the side supports.  All that is left to do is getting the debarker moving free again.  It has not been used for a while and is frozen.  Should be cutting some logs early next week.

Ran into one problem today  When I tried to take the fill plug out of the up/down gear box it would not come  The plug is plastic and deformed.  Might have to drill it out!
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

MartyParsons

"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

flatrock58

2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

flatrock58

I didn't see a plug on the gearbox in the manual and just assumed the higher plug was the fill plug.
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

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