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Pulling 353 out of a 230

Started by jd540b, August 18, 2014, 04:42:58 PM

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jd540b

Lost the motor in my 230 today...yippee.  Going to pull it tomorrow-is it easier to take it out with trans attached or unbolt and just pull motor?  She's dead in the water siezed so need to do it in the woodyard be a pita to try getting on/off trailer and into shop.
Thanks.

Neilo

I would take the engine and trans out together. There is nothing to support the trans other than the engine, so if you split them, it will just lay in the frame anyway.

jd540b

Thanks Neilo.  That make sense.  Never had one apart.  Think I just sucked a valve and it's stuck in the cylinder.  Gonna pull it and re-do whole motor and be done with it.  Fix it right once.

jd540b

Well, got motor and trans pulled today.  Tore motor down and she's toast.  Sure enough, she dropped two valves, pistons are toast, bent rods, burnt bearings.  She was worn out and had been grinding away for a while from the looks of it.  Took trans apart-clutch is bad, throw-out bearing, shift forks...oh man $$$$$$$$
That's the gamble when you get a new to you machine-don't really know what you're getting.  Going to fix it right and do everything while it's apart.  Going to be pretty steep $.  Hope the block is good-will know for sure tomorrow. 

Neilo

Good luck with the rebuild. Keep us posted.

BargeMonkey

 Save yourself the heartache and buy a low hour or new 4BT and be done with it. Im sure if you call around you can find one out of a jack skidder already. I spent 5300 getting my 353 done and wish I did the cummins route.

timberlinetree

When you get it back, break it in the right way I was told that was important. Good luck!
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

jd540b

some pics from pulling motor yesterday, and of nice aspen I (was) cutting.  Also, my stream crossing. 
I'll take some more pics today of tear down and rebuild.




  

  

  

 

ga jones

Barge monkey. U got hosed! 353 is the cheapest engine to rebuild out there. Kits,reman head,cut crank,blower seals 2000. Try that in a 4bt.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

jd540b

Well, the bad news is...literally the only thing salvageable from the motor is the valve cover and oil pan!  Block is junk.
Good news is...I scored a running take out from a generator on a ferry to rebuild for free!!!!  Oh man, good kharma pays off!!! Going to chase parts and hopefully start re-building tomorrow.

cutter88

Quote from: ga jones on August 20, 2014, 07:37:54 AM
Barge monkey. U got hosed! 353 is the cheapest engine to rebuild out there. Kits,reman head,cut crank,blower seals 2000. Try that in a 4bt.

That's right, we re did the 353 in our 664 and did the fibre gear parts bill was under 2000... You can't do a cummins for under 6000 usually
Romans 10 vs 9 
650G lgp Deere , 640D deere, 644B deere loader, 247B cat, 4290 spit fire , home made fire wood processor, 2008 dodge diesel  and a bunch of huskys and jonsereds (IN MEMORY OF BARRY ROGERSON)

jd540b

Well, got second motor torn apart-cleaned up parts, and started reassembling.  Heading in right direction now.
So far into it for about $2400 including clutch and trans parts. 


  

  

 

Dave Shepard

Where did you buy your parts? At the very least I've got a burned valve in Myrtle the Turtle. (3-53)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

jd540b

Dave, Harolds logging in Hamden, ME has lots of parts, as does Brookline Machine/Williams Bros. in Portland.  I bought parts from Detroitdieseldirect online before but shipping was pretty steep IMO.

ga jones

Heavydutykits.com I've bought 2 overhaul kits from them and valve train parts. Free shipping easy to deal with. The last 353 kit was 500.00. Interstate mcbee components.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

barbender

If anything ever happens to my 3-53, I will drop a 4bt Cummins in it's place. It doesn't take long for me to get sick of listening to the screamer.
Too many irons in the fire

loggah

How is the cam and rollers? every one i ever pulled apart had worn cam lobes,and pitted rollers. the cams are pretty soft in those engines.
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

BargeMonkey

Quote from: ga jones on August 20, 2014, 07:37:54 AM
Barge monkey. U got hosed! 353 is the cheapest engine to rebuild out there. Kits,reman head,cut crank,blower seals 2000. Try that in a 4bt.
That was for a rebuilt head, piston kits, new injectors, cam, rebuilt blower, rear gear train and bearings. Had flywheel re-finished and new clutch and pressure plate. Yeah it was expensive but when you need it done quick. If I had known I would have found a 4.5-Powertech. Im thinking of trading her in on a 1010B ive been watching.

jd540b

Loggah,

The cam, rollers, crank, main bearings, were all completely gone.  Some one put a remote filter on it before I had it and had it plumbed backwards so it wasn't circulating.  I switched it around as soon as I got it but damage was done.  First time I changed oil-had pieces of bearings in it.  So that motor had been pumping metal around it for some time.

The one I picked up to rebuild is great shape.  Was used to power a generator in a state ferry.  They took it out running to repower with deeres.

timberlinetree

I have seen rebuild kit as low $330 and engine as high as $4,800. Ours was rebuilt ( or fixed) in the woods. I took most of the shields/oil pan etc.off. He and little help from me took head off and pistons and I think sleeves. It was around 2000. Nice that you found a motor and its not the middle of winter.good luck and like the pic. What a job!
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

snowstorm

Quote from: jd540b on August 22, 2014, 10:23:52 PM
Loggah,

The cam, rollers, crank, main bearings, were all completely gone.  Some one put a remote filter on it before I had it and had it plumbed backwards so it wasn't circulating.  I switched it around as soon as I got it but damage was done.  First time I changed oil-had pieces of bearings in it.  So that motor had been pumping metal around it for some time.

The one I picked up to rebuild is great shape.  Was used to power a generator in a state ferry.  They took it out running to repower with deeres.
so its a marine engine? and was heat exchanger cooled? what ferry did it come from

jd540b

Snowstorm, Yes-keel cooled.  Came from Rockland.  Guy who is helping me has worked on the ferry engines for the dot for longtime.  They were going to scrap them because they have so much junk already-so they gave him two take outs.

snowstorm

if anyone was wondering what a keel cooled engine was. a lot of the lobster boat and some others used it. there were pipes bolted to the keel. on the side so they were out of the way. and the engine coolant ran thru them. since the sea water dosent get much over 60 degrees up here it worked well. with this setup they usually used a dry stack exhaust. the other way was a heat exchanger bolted to the motor with sea water pumped thru it next to tubes with coolant. then a wet exhaust. the sea water after passing thru the exchanger and trans cooler oil cooler and intercooler it went to the exhaust elbow where it cooled the exhaust. the muffler is fiberglass along with the rest of the exhaust system

celliott

So the keel cooled engine is more desirable for forestry equipment re-power? Or the heat exchanger ones that had sea water going through them are not easily adapted?
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

snowstorm

the keel cooled motor would look pretty much like the one in his skidder. the heat exchanger cooled motor dose not have sea water in the motor. only in the water to water heat exchanger. plus it would have water cooled exhaust manifolds

celliott

Got it, so it's an easier swap.
More parts different on the heat exchanger type.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

chester_tree _farmah

Sweet deal on the free running 353 motor dude!  8)
254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

jd540b

 

 

Got motor done and test run today.  Loaded in truck and hopefully get put back in tomorrow.

jd540b

Well, back up and running.  Boy-she's smooth and powerful now, quite a difference.  Pretty much a brand new machine from pump drive, radiator, back to clutch, throw out bearing, and shift forks.  Ended up going new on everything in motor except for cam, crank, blower, and block from the "gift" motor.  Broke it in today 5 hrs pulling wood.  Was told best thing to do was put it right in the woods so that's what I did.  Cylinder kits said right on them not to idle for more than 5 min. 
Live and learn.  I will never take someones word on a blind trade again!!! 
That's all folks. 

timberlinetree

Nice to hear your in the woods turn n hitches instead of wrenches. 8) sounds like your breaking her in the right way!
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

jd540b

So, the numbers are in...
$4308.13 total parts bill(s) for rebuild.  This includes complete motor job, gear train, shafts, cylinder kits, head, etc.  Plus new radiator, clutch, trans parts, misc. hoses, belts, fluids, filters, nut/bolts, etc., etc.  Don't think it too bad-all things considered.   ::) ::)

lopet

No that's not too bad at all. You did pretty good. New radiator and clutch plate  probably ate up a good chunk.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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