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Logmaster alignment woes

Started by NorCal Steve, August 15, 2014, 09:28:45 PM

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NorCal Steve

Log-Master Model 24-55DHR   can't find any info on it ever. Although it seems closest to a LM2. Got a Deere motor on it that I am assuming was an upgrade. Been running it for about three yrs pretty much like I was shown. Not sure if everything I was shown was textbook advice, but in general it runs and cuts. Blades from Cook's which is a long shipment to Northern Cali.
Recently had to replace main shaft and bearings...again. That's about once a year. I knew that main drive belt pulley was out of alignment, but that's just where it had always been. So with the new bearings and shaft I decided to go for total alignment. Shimmed a little here and there and used the adjustments as available on the machine.
Thought I had it lined up but now blade is walking back and forth slightly on the blade bandwheels.
running tension about 3000psi
1/2way thru with my house and just can't get the dang thing lined up to cut well. Blade is walking forward on the rollers and bandwheels when I try to cut faster than a crawl. Not even close to the 8ft/min I usually run, which also seems a little slow. I got tired of diving blades, usually when it was a crucial cut of course.
I've spent a few hours browsing the archives.
new blade, new bearings, new shaft lined up square and plumb as I can get it. frustrated...

Larry

Welcome Steve :)

Have you checked the wheel crown?  I don't know if your on belts or steel.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

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NorCal Steve

steel wheels.
yes, with carriage levellled, brought main drive wheel into level and plumb.
However, the other wheel, which is more easily adjustable for blade changes, does run a little bit off. It leans top-forward just a hair but there is no decent way to adjust for that.
My next try was going to be matching my drive wheel to that same top-forward position instead of nice and level. I just read something else about the guide roller positions and I believe mine might be a little low.

NorCal Steve


boscojmb

Hi Steve,
I think you may need to run more tension on your blade. My LM4 runs 6000 Psi. Your piston is only about .75" Dia,  so 3000 Psi on the gauge equals about 1325 Psi applied to the blade.
Also X2 on checking the band wheel crown.
John B.

Log-Master LM4

Magicman

Hello NorCal Steve, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.  I do not know your sawmill, but it sounds like a blade tracking problem of some sort.  This needs to be addressed before anything else can be accurately done.

Also, round figures, you need ΒΌ" of downward pressure with the blade guide rollers.  Also position the guide flange about 1/8" behind the blade.  This has nothing to do with blade tracking but you did mention it.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

NorCal Steve

By crown...do you mean if there is a cupping to the bandwheel? or the vertical level?
I added pics to my album gallery, not sure how to put them in the post here...
thanks for the roller guide info Magicman!
-boscojmb, 6000psi would be max pressure on my guage. I am burning thru bearings pretty once a year and that is an expensive fix. rexnord bearing= $360 each... you pretty sure about that psi? I will try it if you think that might be the case...

boscojmb

Hi Steve,
There should be a crown (opposite from a cup) to the band wheel surface, not the vertical level.
I looked at the pictures in your gallery. Your mill looks almost identical to mine.
From your pictures it looks like your blade is to long. If you have to use more than one shim block you'll be tensioning against the frame instead of applying tension to the blade. The blade should be 229" long.
Here is a picture from the owners manual showing the blade tension, Yes it is 6000 Psi.

John B.

Log-Master LM4

NorCal Steve

AWESOME Bosco!!! I'm excited to try that in the morning.
I think I understand now what you are asking about the crown in the bandwheel surface. so crown good? bad?
I get my blades from cook's and tell them for a LM2.
I do use more than one shim. I try to use all three. If not, then sometimes the hydraulic ram goes all the way out and stops which can give a false reading of being under pressure but really it is just maxxed out and there is still movement in the bandwheel.
I don't think I am pushing against the frame when I use the shims, but I will look more closely tomorrow.
Is there any decent way to adjust the vertical level of that bandwheel? It seems pretty fixed into place vertically and only adjustable on the horizontal axis.


backwoods sawyer

When aligning make fairly small adjustments, spin the saw up to speed and make another adjustment, repeat.

crown should be around .008 if the wheel is polished smooth it may be about time to have them regrowned, if the rougher surface left by the grinder is visable the crown should be fine, use a straight edge across the crown of the wheel to see if the crown is centered on the wheel, It can be worn off center from bad alignment and bad bearings.

I prefer steel wheels but they can be finiky about being aligned correctly Your mesurements will get it close enogh to stay on now fine tune the tracking.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

thecfarm

NorCal Steve,welcome to the forum.
This will do it for getting pictures in a post.
Good luck with the mill. Sounds like you are sawing out a house.
I like to go to whatever post or start a new topic first to include a picture.Go to your gallery,it will open in a new window.Click onto your album,then click onto whatever picture you want,it will get bigger,than scroll down a little to find,Insert Image In Post,click onto that,click Yes and that is it. Some have to copy/paste the link to work.I like to hit the enter key at least once or twice to move the picture down away from what I am typing. The enter key really helps to leave some white space if posting more than one picture. Somewheres I think it says to add 10,000 to your user number or something like that to make a clickable icon to your gallery under your user name. Use the preview button to see how it looks and modify it if needed
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

ozarkgem

when I got my mill it had steel wheels on it and I had problems with the blade diving. I called the factory and they were no help. To be fair they didn't know the guy I bought it from had changed wheels. Then after fighting it for 7 yrs I read an article by Cooks concerning the crown. I checked my and it was angled on the face, no crown. I replaced them with v groove pulleys and a belt and stopped the dive problem.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ladylake


A few things
When aligning the blade on your wheels don't have the guide wheels touching as they can move it one way or another if they are not aligned right.
The band should track the same when turned backward by hand if not the vertical tilt has to be adjusted.
Then adjust the guide wheels to 1/4 " down pressure with the flange 1/4" behind the blade, if that pushes the blade back or forth the guide wheels are at a angle to the blade and need adjusting. On higher HP mills running the flange at 1/8" behind the flange will cause the blades to break early as the blade will get pushed against the flange and have to bend around it causing the gullet to break. Cooks recommends 1/4" behind the flange ( they know mills good) and after over 2 million BF of pushing my TK mill hard I do also.

Do you know why those bearing are going out every year, mine are still original after 9500 hours.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

NorCal Steve

update.
pulled the guides off, re-aligned main bandwheel until blade tracked perfectly. re-installed guides from there about 1/4" down. I still have some vertical tilt, but I don't see how I can effect that on the "slave?" bandwheel. It only adjusts for horizontal level. The main bandwheel can adjust vertical and horizontal, if I loosen the bearings and set-screws on the drive-shaft. So I matched the vertical on the main bandwheel to that of the "slave". The used the roller guides to fine-tune that tilt until the blade was level. I made the main bandwheel perfectly horizontal and matched that with the "slave". Does that make sense?
Anyways, I started using 6000psi as a blade tension. And so far everything seems pretty nice. I made about a dozen cuts before it got too dark to see anymore. Heading over there in just a few minutes to keep cutting. I got until noon, before I need to spend some family time for the afternoon. School starts tomorrow for my kids...there went the summer.
Conclusion- so far, so good...thanks for all the advice. Not too many knowledgeable folks around here to pick their brains. Having u guys here is like having a room full of experts. Love it!!

NorCal Steve

things seemed pretty good today. no major problems. alignment seems to be working.
how fast do you guys go? i should prolly start a new thread for that. keep an eye out for it.

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