Sawing for a Sawmill Owner

[Magicman]

This morning's sawing started out very normal.  Small Poplar job with seven 16' logs.


 
Some very good and a couple not so good.


 
This one really bad, but we still got probably eight 1X8's.


 
Finished up, loaded up, and almost ready to leave.


 
But the customer has a secret.  He owns a sawmill.   He told me that he does saw occasionally and the TK is in good working order.  I could have asked several obvious questions, but my job is to saw.

[ladylake]

I just sawed a little over 3000 bf of high quality white pine and black ash all 1" random width straight as a arrow with a mill just like that today in 9 hours, 24 good sized ash logs after dinner, your customer was crazy or lazy.  Lets all toot our horn.   Steve

[WDH]

Yeah, I bet lazy.

[thecfarm]

Maybe no hyds?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Having a sawmill and having enough money to pay someone else to saw your logs must be the life.  8)

[Magicman]

Steve, in no way was I horn tooting.  No brag about either the amount of lumber sawed or how long it took.  Just mystified about his hidden sawmill.  The customer was neither lazy nor crazy.  Just his call, but I see no reason characterize him in a negative way.

[ladylake]

I'd think if he didn't saw his own logs with a fine mill like that he's lazy or has no idea how to saw.   Steve

[reswire]

 I know people who own boats but never use them, own horses and never ride them, own farms but don't farm the land, so forth and so on.  Usually, they purchase something with the best of intentions on learning how to use it, only to find out later it required more time to learn than they were willing to invest.   I had a good friend who owned the most beautiful Thoroughbred I had ever seen, but she was scared to death to ride it.  She spent a small fortune to train and board the animal, was immensely proud to say she owned the horse, but never sat on its back.  It made her happy, so I was happy for her.  Of course it made me shake my head in bewilderment, but what the heck do I know anyway?  She had the money to spend, and spending it made her happy.   ;D

[Wellmud]

Maybe the customer saw it as a way to get some education, and to see how someone else does things.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I knew a guy that had a Goat. And one day..........ah...what he heck.......you don't wanna hear it anyway.  :D

[hackberry jake]

I knew a guy that had a Goat. And one day..........ah...what he heck.......you don't wanna hear it anyway.  :D

that same guy used to have a turtle!

[yukon cornelius]

I know people who own boats but never use them, own horses and never ride them, own farms but don't farm the land, so forth and so on.  Usually, they purchase something with the best of intentions on learning how to use it, only to find out later it required more time to learn than they were willing to invest.   I had a good friend who owned the most beautiful Thoroughbred I had ever seen, but she was scared to death to ride it.  She spent a small fortune to train and board the animal, was immensely proud to say she owned the horse, but never sat on its back.  It made her happy, so I was happy for her.  Of course it made me shake my head in bewilderment, but what the heck do I know anyway?  She had the money to spend, and spending it made her happy.   ;D

im that guy! I have a 5 year old boat that hasn't been wet in 3 years. i have fishing ploes that haven't been cast out in 3 years. I have antique tractors that haven't been started in 3 years. i have hunting gear unused for 2-3 years. i bought 30 acres of woods to hunt and have barely been out to hunt 2 years ago. why?? a 3 year old henry, our house/shop build, that same 30 acres of i cant see 5 feet in front of me brush to clean up and a one year old sawmill that runs every day.

[yukon cornelius]

I knew a guy that had a Goat. And one day..........ah...what he heck.......you don't wanna hear it anyway.  :D

i sold them....

[Dave Shepard]

Maybe the customer saw it as a way to get some education, and to see how someone else does things.

Sounds plausible. Or he may have had more important things to be doing.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I knew a guy that had a Goat. And one day..........ah...what he heck.......you don't wanna hear it anyway.  :D

i sold them....

:D :D :D

[BCsaw]

MM, thanks for the interesting story.

[mikeb1079]

maybe it wasn't his mill?

[MSSawmill]

He couldn't find an off-bearer, so he hired a sawyer?  8)

[Ga Mtn Man]

As one of our members likes to say- "Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter".  Perhaps he never figured out how to properly set up the TK to make it saw good lumber. 

[kczbest]

Magic, I have a guy who pays me to grade his 3/4 mile long driveway. He has nicer equipment than mine and knows how to use it just as well as I do. I asked him once why he paid me instead of doing it himself. He said he no longer enjoyed doing tractor work and would rather pay me than do it himself. I said fair enough and call me when you need me to do it again.

[ely]

It seems a bit odd that he owns a mill and hires a saw miller...but I know a lot worse odd people....good post lynn

[Mooseherder]

What is the point of this thread.  Steve

Knock it off.  You're way out of line.
I'm not sure if your recents posts are at odds with other brand owners but the tone recently is uncalled for.  You had better check yourself.  Remember the golden rule.

[Brucer]

I took this thread as nothing more than a story about a curious situation. I doubt it would make a difference whether the mill was a TK, a WM, or something else.

First thing I do when I see a picture of a mill is check out as many features as I can see. Then I ask myself, "I wonder why they did it that way?" NOT to be negative, but because I'm interested in the logic behind the design. And there is always logic; it just may not be obvious. You need to look at the whole package, and try to get inside the mind of the designer. One design choice leads to other logical choices, which in turn lead to other logical choices.

Maybe no hyds?

Awful lot of hydraulic levers front and centre ;D.



When I was running someone else's saw, he sent me out to an acreage a short distance outside of town. Showed me the job -- logs stacked neatly slightly uphill of the road -- and left me to it. At the end of the day as we were pulling out, he told me who the owner was. Wait a minute, I knew the guy. He works for the city. And he owns a sawmill.  ??? ???

I've since learned that he doesn't use it much, and then only for the odd special-sized board. Eventually I figured out  that he isn't as keen about sawing as he thought he would be.

[Lazyguy]

Hi guys,

Excellent post as always MM.
I love following you're journeys:)

We are now in a "time", in life where ALMOST, everyone is looking for a reason to be offended!
You're post was not offensive!

Actually, I'm that guy like Reswire describes.

I own a few rental houses.
And I do probably 70% of the work. And I own 90% of the tools I need or would need.

Example: I own 2 mig welders and an arc.

And I can weld to a degree.

A few weeks ago I needed some old metal railings repaired at a house.
I paid my brother in law to do it.
And he did it for me last year also at a different house.
Why, he's a pro!
My welders are name brand and his is not. He can still weld circles around me!

I want it done "right", and done FAST.
Someone is living in that house. I don't want to hang out at their house all day!

Another ex: Last weekend.

I spent probably 10 hours, breaking down 1 red oak log with a chainsaw so I could bring it home to use on my small sawmill. Next time it will take 1/2 that time!

I learned a lot. I'm kind of embarrassed it took so long. But, it was on my time.
MM could have done it in a hour or less ;)

It was only 8' long and a little over 30" in diameter. I was tired, but had a blast doing it.

I can then cut it this weekend on my mill, but my mill is still not adjusted right, and I will NOT get exact dimensions.
Multiply my errors + mill adjustment = a lot of wasted wood.

If I needed framing lumber for a certain project, and not just hardwoods for my woodworking hobby, I'd be hiring it done also.

If one of you guys were closer I'd probably hire you for a job or offer to help off bear just to learn.

I overthink a lot of jobs.

I like to hire guys to do certain jobs and watch them and learn.
Then I have more confidence and will try and do it myself.

As for steve, I think he's just trying to playfully rib, or at least I hope so.

Goodnight

Dave S.

[backwoods sawyer]

MM I have milled for a few mill owners over the years. one guy had a Burg mill with stacks of lumber and logs, I had been milling for a couple of his neighbors, and he asked if I could mill for him while I was in the area, he had more orders then he could fill, so I spend a couple days milling up all his logs and got him caught up.

Another was a good sized family owned/operated excavation co, all hard workers and top notch equipment operators, had a lt-30 sitting in the shop, I milled for them three times during the summer, why, time was valuable to them during the work season.

[5quarter]

MM...that is a funny coincidence. Of course if that were my sorry butt mill sitting idle in the weeds, maybe not so much... ;) :D :D

[WoodenHead]

Perhaps the sawmill owner hired MM as a learning experience to see how someone else would go about sawing the logs.   :-\  It is a curious thing though.  Admittedly I probably would have asked about it, because my curiosity would have gotten the better of me.   :D 

[goose63]

If there was some one close by that had more time on the H126 I would be happy to learn from them and pay for it

[LarryRB]

I think that he just wanted a few lessons from one of the best.

[Cedarman]

Why do we all go out to eat when we all have kitchens at home? :D :D :D

[Peter Drouin]

Why do we all go out to eat when we all have kitchens at home? :D :D :D

:D :D :D :D

[DMcCoy]

MM - I happen to like your posts. 
I own plenty of equipment and their are times I will still hire someone.  Sometimes I'm a little short handed and need something done yesterday.  I have over time come to look at it like hiring an employee nothing more or less just to get it done.
Also I have been asked to saw a log for someone with a new lucas mill who had already put a few hours on it.  After watching for a while he asked me to saw a log.  He wanted to watch how I set it all up. At one point I grimaced and after I shut it down he asked why.  I realized a slab cut I had taken was to light so I had to take another deeper cut, it was a highly tapered log - so I wasted a cut. 
So it could also be could be your customer wanted to watch someone else sawing - especially a professional - I understand that completely.  It would be a bargain for the knowledge one could gain.   

[rooster 58]

I'll bet the customer got good blade life on his mill ;)

[backwoods sawyer]

MM - I happen to like your posts. 
I own plenty of equipment and their are times I will still hire someone.  Sometimes I'm a little short handed and need something done yesterday.  I have over time come to look at it like hiring an employee nothing more or less just to get it done.

So it could also be could be your customer wanted to watch someone else sawing - especially a professional - I understand that completely.  It would be a bargain for the knowledge one could gain.

I had a customer the other day on an hourly rate job come up to the control panle after taking a trailer load of wood off to stack at another location and ask me to shut it down. He said I like to learn something everyday and have some questions on stacking lumber so we took a 15 min tailgate brake to go over the do's and don'ts of stickering.
At the end of the job I rounded down the time by 15 min. he said oh no you don't the knowledge I gained was well worth the $20 of time you took to go over the correct way to stack my lumber.

[beenthere]

Why do we all go out to eat when we all have kitchens at home? :D :D :D

That is good !!

I sometimes wonder the same thing around here....

[MattJ]

I'm going to put another vote for the education theory. 

Back when I was in upstate NY we had a fishing boat and would make an annual trip to a good fishing lake.  We would set the equipment, do everything "in-fisherman" magazine told us to do, and bring in 1/5th the fish compared to the charter boats 50 yards away.  We did this a few years in a row and then said let's swallow our pride and start the next trip with a 1/2 day charter.  That trip was followed by 4.5 days of limiting out every day using small changes to how we did things.  Sometimes you have to see to learn.

[Chuck White]

Good point Matt!  8)

I've sawn lumber for a few people who own sawmills, but some of them had stationary (circle) mills and no means of hauling logs over-the-road!

One of the guys I sawed for had about 2,500 bf of W/Pine and he let me know going into the job that he owned and operated a portable mill, but wanted to learn something.

Didn't tell me what it was for a while, then I noticed that he had me saw several different "quarters" of lumber.  Then I caught on and asked "do you want to learn how to use the quarters scale"!  Yes was the reply.

So you see, there are many reasons for people to hire someone with like equipment!

[LeeB]

Did the other mill even run? Who knows.

[backwoods sawyer]

He told me that he does saw occasionally and the TK is in good working order. 

[Tom the Sawyer]

Something similar happened to me 18 months ago.  A guy called on my ad, asked lots of questions about types of milling, my equipment (B-20), etc.  We set up a site visit at a massive home on about 20 acres that he has had under construction for a couple of years.  Wrought iron fence, huge stone monument entrance and as I drive in I see 3 semi-load piles of logs - cherry, walnut and white oak.  Several large stacks of lumber, exposed to the elements, and a big, diesel Cooks bandsaw mill.  There were a number of guys around, working on different projects, trucks, skid steers, tractor, etc. 

He came out to show me his logs and I couldn't help asking about the sawmill.  He said that he was giving up on using it.  The best operator he had found was his girlfriend but she left him.  He tried to get a couple of his employees to run the mill but they didn't like milling and when he pushed them to get the milling done it seemed as though the mill would 'break down' frequently (operator induced breakdowns).  He said that the guy who repaired it would have to drive in from St. Louis and that he just got fed up with trying and hoped to hire someone to bring their mill and get the job done (flooring and trim for the new house - he said that he had a kiln but I never saw it).

I had other clients and offered him two days a week until we got it done.  He wanted me to drop everyone else until his job was done and also to 'negotiate' a lower fee since it was close to me and a large quantity of work (he runs a local, night-time, high cash flow business).  We did not reach an agreement.  I went by there the other day on the way to another job.  They're still working on the house, the logs are still laying there, the lumber stacks are grayer, and the mill is gone.   

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Good reply Tom. Working 28 years for the Forestry Commission, I have seen all different brands of sawmills and set ups. I saw all these mills before I got the bug.
From some of the things I have seen and heard, I am convinced Sawmills are just not meant for some people.

When I first got my mill enough stuff happened during my learning process to where some people would just have given up and called a sawyer to come in and mill their lumber for them.

Thank the Lord for Woodmizer's 2 year warranty......I used every bit of it.  :D

Sounds like your guy just couldn't find the dedication he needed to saw his own lumber with a very good mill.

IMO...if you have the dedication, you can make any mill make you money. The biggest problem I have seen is folks buying a smaller mill that will not fit their need for a lumber hungry market.

[red oaks lumber]

i have sawed lots of lumber for other mill owners just like i've had lots of lumber sawed by other sawyers. i guess i have never really given any thought about it before, and i wont give any thought now either :D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

i have sawed lots of lumber for other mill owners just like i've had lots of lumber sawed by other sawyers. i guess i have never really given any thought about it before, and i wont give any thought now either :D

Good way to look at it RO.

[hackberry jake]

I sawed a log for a man that owns an lt-15. He was having trouble with his mill cutting seasoned oak logs and was wondering if this amount of trouble is normal for small mills milling oak. He brought me one of his logs. I sawed it in front of him and then he called WM service and scheduled an appointment. He said some cuts would take more than 5 minutes to complete... I thing the problem ended up being bad band wheel belts and the whole mill needed an alignment. He hasn't called me since.

[MrWizard]

Hackberry,
  Nothing wrong with that as long as he compensated you for the mill time and your travels.  Sometimes we just need to know, if our stuffs working right.

[glassman_48]

magicman,
What a good post, it got me to thinking after reading all the responses.  If I do get a mill, I will hire someone to help me run it until I learn enough.  I am planning on finding someone local to run their mill too.  I have hired carpenters to finish siding a house when I am installing the replacement windows simply because I cant take that many extra days away from my other glass customers.  I have oilfield companies that call and I have to be there pronto to get a windshield done so they can get their vehicle back on the road.  I think you not asking him about his mill afterward was a high class thing to do.   Hope we can meet someday,,,,,,,Ed

[Corley5]

Well, I've got sawmills and have bought lumber at (gasp!!!!!) Home Depot and Lowes  ;) ;D

[ET]

MM, you may have missed the pigroast but you did not miss the sparks!  I like others am enjoying this thread. I remember an old post about looking at a problem and being able to fix it!  Some people got it and some don't.

[Magicman]

The sawmill that I have was 3 years old when I bought it.  The former owner had sawed for two years and then it sat idle for a year with him still making the notes.  Making a living with a startup sawing operation and no customer base is a tough way to go. 

I regularly advise new or potential owners here on the FF to get with a local sawyer to watch and learn.  Different sawyers and different sawmill brands all have something to learn from.  The only other sawyer that I have ever watched saw was Customersawyer at the Sycamore 3 Project and I stuck close to him just watching.  I saw wwsjr watching me at the Goodwill Sawing Project for dablack.  Sawing is fascinating no matter who is doing it.  I would love to have more opportunities to do so.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

The sawmill that I have was 3 years old when I bought it.  The former owner had sawed for two years and then it sat idle for a year with him still making the notes.  Making a living with a startup sawing operation and no customer base is a tough way to go. 

I regularly advise new or potential owners here on the FF to get with a local sawyer to watch and learn.  Different sawyers and different sawmill brands all have something to learn from.  The only other sawyer that I have ever watched saw was Customersawyer at the Sycamore 3 Project and I stuck close to him just watching.  I saw wwsjr watching me at the Goodwill Sawing Project for dablack.  Sawing is fascinating no matter who is doing it.  I would love to have more opportunities to do so.

Magic....have you ever thought about sharpening your own blades?  :D :D :D (inside joke)

[Magicman]

Inside joke and Outside answer, No.

When I am off from sawing, I am off.  For example that little ~1500 bf. Poplar job yesterday was one blade.  I can afford to pay 10 bucks for resharpening, but my answer is not for everyone.  If one is looking for long range profits, then resharpening will certainly pay off, as well as having the option to have many different hook angles and sets. 

Resharpening or not is not a "one size fits all".  It is a personal decision based on your business profile.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Inside joke and Outside answer, No.

When I am off from sawing, I am off.  For example that little ~1500 bf. Poplar job yesterday was one blade.  I can afford to pay 10 bucks for resharpening, but my answer is not for everyone.  If one is looking for long range profits, then resharpening will certainly pay off, as well as having the option to have many different hook angles and sets. 

Resharpening or not is not a "one size fits all".  It is a personal decision based on your business profile.

I didn't mean to get your goat!  Calm down. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Magicman]

I do quite often get PM's asking if/why I do, or do not, use Resharp so I just went ahead and answered it, even without the Goat.  How does goat go with grits??

[red oaks lumber]

it dosent. goat goes north and the grits stay down south. ;D

[Magicman]

Back in the days before we had deer, we had goats.  Wild herds of them roaming through the woods.  The .22 was the caliber of choice at the time, and occasionally I went goat hunting.  I don't know what happened to them.  Maybe they all went North.  I understand that there is a smelly old male in S. C.   ;D

[red oaks lumber]

 8) 8)

[LeeB]

Masa is kinda the same thing as grits. Cabrito tamales are good, so I would say goat goes well with grits.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

   I understand that there is a smelly old male in S. C.   ;D

Hey now......I did get rained on 4 days ago.  smiley_airfreshener

[backwoods sawyer]

As long as they keep you tied up to where you can run the mill all is good ;D



No one will bug you from up close  :

[GAB]

The sawmill that I have was 3 years old when I bought it.  The former owner had sawed for two years and then it sat idle for a year with him still making the notes.  Making a living with a startup sawing operation and no customer base is a tough way to go. 

I regularly advise new or potential owners here on the FF to get with a local sawyer to watch and learn.  Different sawyers and different sawmill brands all have something to learn from.  The only other sawyer that I have ever watched saw was Customersawyer at the Sycamore 3 Project and I stuck close to him just watching.  I saw wwsjr watching me at the Goodwill Sawing Project for dablack.  Sawing is fascinating no matter who is doing it.  I would love to have more opportunities to do so.

MM's suggestion in my opinion, is a very good one.
During my time in IN I met up with two portable sawmill owners and spent time with both of them.  One was an engineer and the other worked for a package delivery outfit.  Learned a lot from both, some good and some you should not do.  Also saw them try to fix their mills after encountering problems and/or failures.
One day while in IN I received a flier about a seminar that was being offered at OSU Ext. in Piketon, OH.  (Hope I got that right)  At the time I did not own a sawmill and decided to go.  It was money very very well spent.  Got a lot of education for the cost involved.  At this seminar is where I learned that I did not want to own a particular brand of portable sawmill.
One of the topics discussed had to do with blade sharpening.  That was an education worthy of a 4 credit college course in less than an hour.  One attendee said I just bought a new sharpener (still in the box) and it is now for sale.
Education is not cheap, you can pay up front, you can pay later, you can pay in pain, anyhow remember that Mother Nature does not allow drop outs.
I too have sawed for someone who owned a mill.  He has since sold it.  There was nothing wrong with his mill, but it was the wrong style mill for his needs. 
As a matter of fact I helped him set it up and helped him use it the first time.
Gerald

[rasman57]

"At this seminar is where I learned that I did not want to own a particular brand of portable sawmill."

GAB What happened or what did you encounter that helped you decide?   Many of us are always interested in REAL world observations and experience and can learn from what others observe and form an opinion.   You and MM offer some good sound advice.

[drobertson]

I have sawed on a few occasions for not a mill owner per se, but a sawyer that has full access to a high production circle mill,  his decision was based on how much of the log he would loose with the required thickness of the boards,5/8", and the amount of logs he had.  He has been sawing for years and years, and has shown me many facets of milling lumber through the years.  Gaining knowledge is just about a daily occurrence for me.

[GAB]

"At this seminar is where I learned that I did not want to own a particular brand of portable sawmill."

GAB What happened or what did you encounter that helped you decide?   Many of us are always interested in REAL world observations and experience and can learn from what others observe and form an opinion.   You and MM offer some good sound advice.

Sir, putting me in the same class as MM I believe is a mistake.  MM is a very fine and very knowledgeable southern gentleman.  He was also helpful in getting me the grits that were delivered to Ray of thecfarm, I hope I properly compensated him for his time and effort.
I went to a show in Louisville, KY in 2000 (I believe it was) and the rep. for one company outright lied to me and my wife about another company's product.  I took that rep's co. off of the list of potential contenders when it came time to purchase.   Both gentlemen that I spent time helping saw had both purchased new mills although it was the second mill for one of them.  I asked both a lot of questions and then started looking at different things, went to the Paul Bunyon show a few times and looked at designs, mill configurations, etc.  Having a dairy farm background and a degree in ME and having worked in design (machine tool, power generation, industrial controls, avionics, and automotive) and also having been involved in numerous failure analysis investigations I look at things differently than most people.  I also studied portable saw mills for 5+ years and attended open houses and seminars when able before purchasing one.  The old adage that haste makes waste I feel is appropriate as in many cases those that purchase on a whim soon regret it.  I hope this helps in answering your question.
Gerald

[thecfarm]

I looked at mills I betcha for 20 years before I bought mine. The reason it took so long was no money.  ;D

[GAB]

I have sawed on a few occasions for not a mill owner per se, but a sawyer that has full access to a high production circle mill,  his decision was based on how much of the log he would loose with the required thickness of the boards,5/8", and the amount of logs he had.  He has been sawing for years and years, and has shown me many facets of milling lumber through the years.  Gaining knowledge is just about a daily occurrence for me.

Concerning the last sentence - you can add me to that comment.
Gerald

[redbeard]

Alls I know is I like my 92 F350 and I love my 06 TK B-20

[Magicman]

And I was really hoping that our travels next month would have taken us closer to you because I dearly wanted to visit with you and see your setup.  I wanted to see your B-20 hum.   ;D  Maybe next time.   

[Cedarman]

I agree with GAB to a point on haste makes waste.  Engineers tend to analyse things to a fault, (selling a pergola kit to an engineer is an experience, he even said it would be because he realized he was an engineer).   I went to Purdue with a bunch of them. A geology degree teaches one to make decisions with a minimum of information and also knowing that you will never have all the info. Learn as much as you can in the time allotted and then decide.  Each process has its upside and downside.
When my brother (who I bought out a year later) and I bought a LT 30 manual in 83 took all of 30 minutes to decide to buy one.  $6700.00  Neither of us had run or been around a mill in our lives.  Deciding which company to buy from was easy.  WM was the only one we knew about.  We saw it operate, saw the potential, and that was that.  Reasoning went like this, downside, out 6700 bucks minus resale value if we wanted out.  Upside, unlimited potential for sawing and turning logs to money, logs to lumber for own use etc.
When we got into the mulch business in Ok, Aaron and i spent a year looking at grinders, flying over a big swatch of Ok in a small plane, talking to a bunch of people in Ok.  Then spent 4000 to do a trial run to see if what we wanted to do was viable and our potential customers would sign on the dotted line.  We decided at the end of the second day of trial that we would jump in. 
When making decisions I look at best outcome and worst outcome.  If I can live with worst outcome, then the rest comes easy.
Another thing, trust your own judgement.
#1.  I was told by sawmill people in 83 that the bandmill was just a toy and laughed at me.
#2.  I was told 4 years later that you cannot make any money sawing cedar.
#3.  8 years ago I was told that trying to make cedar mulch from fields of cedar trees would not work.  That came from the company that sold us the grinder.  They had tried it. (Long story of their trying).
#4.  We were told a year ago that we could not make good colored mulch in one pass with cedar trees.  We have red, brown, and black with no problems.
#5.  I won't mention the ideas that didn't work out so hot. Must be realistic when things don't work out so well and fold.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Cedarman.....I liked your reply!  Enjoyed reading it.

[RayMO]

Yes the best mill in the world will produce mediocre results minus a skilled operator. On the other hand I have seen some rather junky mills produce great results with a gifted operator .

[mikeb1079]

i took it as a comment on the abilities of the respective sawyers, didn't think it had anything to do with the makes of equipment involved.

[drobertson]

I will add, my good friend and at many times an advisor, who has sawn more lumber than so many here, and this is not a knock on anyone, just a cold hard fact,  I've seen it, and was made an offer to get in on it, but was scared of the speed to be honest, can and will say, some folks just know when and where to pick the right opportunities to pick the sawyer to get the job done with maximum efficiency.. it happens all the time, and a smart person knows when to call the ball and make the call.  No gigs on anyone, just a common sense decision based on history and requirements.

[Bill Gaiche]

What I know is MM is not the kind of man to discredit anyone or anyones  piece of equipment that is on this forum. But I also know that you start stepping on his toes he will take note and respond in a way that is appropriate. If anyone is trying to shoot holes in something, then lets go to the shooting range. bg

[Dave Shepard]

We really don't have enough info to know why the man wasn't running his mill. As MM said, the mill was in fine working condition, so we can only speculate. Perhaps the man was not in a physical condition to run his own mill anymore. We don't, and probably won't, know.

[Bruno of NH]

It shouldn't hurt to have a manual mill !
You can make money with one .
No differnt than a carpenter that uses a hammer than one that uses nail guns
They both can still make money .
Jim Bruno of Nh

[stihltoomany]

I think everyone has missed the purpose of this post. Magicmans customer needs to sell that mill to me  and then this "discussion" would not be necessary. I would use the heck out of it.  :D :D

[goose63]

So now iam not making money with my manual 126. well I aint getting rich but making a little and having a good time at it

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I think everyone has missed the purpose of this post. Magicmans customer needs to sell that mill to me  and then this "discussion" would not be necessary. I would use the heck out of it.  :D :D

I like this!  :D :D :D

[Jeff]

I just spent considerable time going over this topic and removesd that that (Tom) had to be removed, to cleanse it from the very un-forestryforum type conduct that occurred within it. The accusations of the Forestry Forum as being biased, the personal attacks on other members, all have been removed. I had to remove a bunch of other posts from it as well, as they were referring to the unsavory nature of the posts removed so if your post is gone, don't worry about it. If you were part of the problem, you already know about it.

I'm returning the bones of this topic, because I absolutely know that there was no malice intended in the beginning. It was started by a good man that I personally know and appreciate along with the majority of the membership. In fact I really wanted to add to the topic as it fits where I am at right now. I also wanted to add this, for the very few that don't realize it.  We have Two admins that have been circle sawyers for most of their sawing lives. One now happens to have a 27 year old wood-mizer that another member gave him one heck of a deal on many years ago. Another of our admins has a norwood. Another has two peterson sawmills. One had a mobile dimension and yet another used a chainsaw mill for years before graduating to an entry level woodmizer. We also have another admin that was a forester who also has an entry level wood-mizer.  Your administrative staff is made up of good men that are unbiased to any manufacture when it comes to the Forestry Forum other than the obvious slant to our sponsors. We don't administrate this forum based on personal preferences regarding member conduct. So, in reading this topic,  If you see tidbits you don't quite understand or  that I may have missed, this is the reason. In the words of another of our members...

Carry on.

So with that out of the way,  I have a perfectly able, almost 30 year old wood-mizer sitting in the yard. But guess what? I made a deal earlier in the year to trade some of my sharper geek skills to have a circle mill sawyer saw out a bunch of lumber for my future cabin out of his logs on a mill built way back in the last century.  I'd like to think it's not because I am lazy, or don't know how to do it, but it's just something that seemed to make sense in doing. It seems ironic if I dwell on it.  I founded a forum that has tons of sawyers on it, I was a head sawyer for almost half my life, I have my own mill, I know how to use it, yet I'm going to have someone else use their saw to do it for me. Makes for an interesting situation wouldn't you think? And that's all there is to it.

[beenthere]

Thanks Boss... ya dun good, and spent some of your valuable time gettinRdun.  It is appreciated.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Thanks for taking the time to "rescue" this thread.  The original subject is interesting and worthy of discussion.

[red oaks lumber]

thanks jeff 

[DMcCoy]

Yes, thank you!

[Corley5]

 ;) ;D

[mikeb1079]

the cobbler's children have no shoes

:D

[Magicman]

I will be anxious to see your logs being turned into timbers for your cabin build.  If you and "Uncle Lou" get as excited as you did when you got water, there will be quite a party.   8)

[Nomad]

     Much appreciated Jeff.  This really is an interesting topic, minus the nonsense.  I recently did a job for a fella with a like-new mill. 

[LeeB]

I used to saw for a guy that had two mills. One was a manual mill so I well understood why. I gave away the manual mill and now I just saw for myself with the hydraulic one. Does that count?

[red oaks lumber]

we have an all hydalic sawmill setup yet, the guy up the road with a manual small mill does some cutting for us why? he can cut 34 ' long and sometimes making weird angle cuts and other funky cuts its just easier to go the slow methodical way

[pineywoods]

Heck, sawing for another mill owner is very common around here. There's 3 lt40's and 2 norwoods within 5 miles of me. We saw for each other whenever somebody gets behind and needs to fill an order in a hurry..We even trade logs  and sometimes lumber.

[Banjo picker]

I have sawn for a guy that has a circle mill from time to time.  It takes several hands to efficiently run a circle mill. The same could be said of mine, but I can get by with just me if need be.  Banjo