iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Change band brands...change tracking?

Started by kelLOGg, July 18, 2014, 05:58:15 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kelLOGg

I have always used Simonds bands because they came with my mill 12 years ago. Recently, Fat Ole Elf gave me a WM band and when I installed it, it required considerable adjustment to my tracking. (I found the same to be true for a couple of Cooks bands I have). The only difference in the Simonds and others is that the Simonds are 0.042" and have been sharpened several times and so are slightly <1.25" wide. The WM and Cooks are 0.050" and are unused. Why would tracking adjustments be needed?
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

ladylake

 Maybe more or less tension built in the band, I check the tracking every band change and some of the ones that have been sharpened a lot will track farther ahead than a new one..  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Chuck White

I'm kind of surprised that the tracking would change when changing band brands!  :-\
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

NMFP

There would be no reason to need to adjust tracking, unless you changed width of the bands.  If you need to adjust it, there is something else wrong. 

I have numerous customers that own multiple brands of bands and they run them all interchangeably.  The only thing that will change is the setworks in that, when you change thickness from say a .042 to a .055 band, your setworks will be slightly off, but depending if its manual or electronic, it may not matter.

Magicman

Maybe your old bands have crowned somewhat and "settled in" ??

I have used/tried different brands and thicknesses and never touched the tracking.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

Quote from: Magicman on July 18, 2014, 08:17:00 AM
I have used/tried different brands and thicknesses and never touched the tracking.
smiley_thumbsup
Me too.  Seems odd.
YH

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

ely

on my norwood I have to adjust my tracking when I change blades every once in awhile, and 95% of my bands are cooks, only have a few different bands now.
I attribute that to the fact that some of those bands are about used up... but they still cut well so I still use them.

and I may be speaking out of place here, I only had to adjust my actual tracking twice last year, but I do have to adjust the rollers a lot when I change bands... because the different bands will crowd back too far and rub the guide roller flange or others will be 3/16 to a quarter inch out from the roller flange.

drobertson

Quote from: YellowHammer on July 18, 2014, 08:23:26 AM
Quote from: Magicman on July 18, 2014, 08:17:00 AM
I have used/tried different brands and thicknesses and never touched the tracking.
smiley_thumbsup
Me too.  Seems odd.
YH
Another head scratcher for sure,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

backwoods sawyer

sounds like a depper issue,
When I bought my mill I was adjusting tracking for each saw change, turned out to be a bad set of bearings in the idler arm swing arm pivot point. You can check that when you have the saw off by trying to move the arm in and out 90* to the way it pivots.

Also be consistant with band tension as movment in a bearing that is going bad can change with more or less presure on them.
   
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Driftless

I have noticed this also.  On my homemade mill I origianly started with belted wheels and never noticed it.  But then I went to steel wheels from cooks and noticed it.  Good bearings, same tension.  Blades tried were Cooks super sharp, Lennox C-Sharp, Simonds red streak and Timberwolf.  Seemed that the cooks rode the furthest back.  So I set up the alignment for that blade and live with the other blade alignment.  Full day of trying blades and adjusting the alignment to get this all figured out.  Just easier to run one blade!

barbender

There's no reason it should be different, but I've seen it on my mill. I have been running WM bands, I tried a Simonds recently and had to adjust for it. One difference though, it was slightly longer than my WM bands, that could cause it, I suppose.
Too many irons in the fire

fat olde elf

The main reason Bob got that WM band from me is that I "won" it and many others at the Pig Roast a while back. Another good reason to attend the Pig Roast.....I got 3 bands from Lennox to evaluate, they were c-sharp. Good performance but they were a lot wider than any other bands I have run. I ended up just running them and sharpening them so I wouldn't need to adjust tracking back to Simonds, cooks SS, regular lennox, and a bunch of others that I seem to have acquired in 12 years of milling.  There are a lot of good bands out there and they have improved over the 12 years. I'm headed back to the Pig Roast and hope to score more bands to irritate the gizzard out of WDH. I only pick on people that I like.......Paul E. Randolph
Cook's MP-32 saw, MF-35, Several Husky Saws, Too Many Woodworking Tools, 4 PU's, Kind Wife.

ladylake

Quote from: ely on July 18, 2014, 08:44:07 AM
on my norwood I have to adjust my tracking when I change blades every once in awhile, and 95% of my bands are cooks, only have a few different bands now.
I attribute that to the fact that some of those bands are about used up... but they still cut well so I still use them.

and I may be speaking out of place here, I only had to adjust my actual tracking twice last year, but I do have to adjust the rollers a lot when I change bands... because the different bands will crowd back too far and rub the guide roller flange or others will be 3/16 to a quarter inch out from the roller flange.

Maybe some aren't paying close enough attention to how the band is tracking, Ely when you have to adjust the guide rollers back or forth you tracking is changing , on my TK it takes less than a minute to make the band track right with the back of the blade even with the back of the wheel, a lot easier than adjusting both guide rollers.  Keep the flange at 1/4" behind the band as Cooks recommends if you want the best blade life, 1/16 or 1/8 is not enough on higher HP mills, it might be OK on low HP mills that aren't pushed very hard.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Dave Shepard

I have never adjusted the tracking on my mill from the day it was delivered. I only run WM .055" 1.25" bands, so maybe that is why. Simple adjustment to move tracking in and out if needed.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

ladylake

 
Most times it's a band that has been sharpened 15+ times that wants to track 1/8" too far ahead but I've had different brands brand new that track a little different and no there is nothing wrong with my  mill.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

hamish

Quote from: ladylake on July 18, 2014, 08:15:32 PM

Most times it's a band that has been sharpened 15+ times that wants to track 1/8" too far ahead but I've had different brands brand new that track a little different and no there is nothing wrong with my  mill.   Steve

The only time I need to adjust my tracking is when going from a well used band or batch of bands to a new set.  Be it the same or different manufacturer.
Norwood ML26, Jonsered 2152, Husqvarna 353, 346,555,372,576

5quarter

Bob, you're running steel wheels, right? Maybe the crown is wearing some. I've seen some small differences in tracking due to wear but not enough to adjust it out.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

kelLOGg

Quote from: 5quarter on July 19, 2014, 12:19:52 AM
Bob, you're running steel wheels, right? Maybe the crown is wearing some. I've seen some small differences in tracking due to wear but not enough to adjust it out.

Yes, I am running crowned steel wheels. Driftless noted that, too. Maybe there's more band curvature w/ crowned wheels and MM's comment is consistent with that too. Hmmm.. Cook use to have a rental grinder to resurface crowned wheels, if I remember correctly. Has anyone resurfaced their wheels?
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

ladylake


The crown certainly isn't wearing between taking on band off and putting another on.  The fact is that some bands from different company's track a little different.  Most likely going from .042 to .050 makes a difference too. Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

5quarter

Steve...When the crown wears down, you lose some control over the tracking. Blades are not all created equal. some will start riding back on the flange, some might start running forward.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

ladylake

 Yes blades are not created equal and some track different even with new wheels or belts, that what was asked on this tread.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

backwoods sawyer

Steel wheels are more sensitive to tracking then the belts, hense the reason Cooks sells a band roller to set a crown in the saw that will ride the crown of the wheel and the placment of the crown can be adjusted.
Cooks saws are a harder metal then most others and timberwolf runs a much softer metal in their saws.
If you wheels are wearing down and coming due to be resurfaced tracking can be a real issue. 
I have a machine shop that can handle crowning the wheels but not all can turn down a 24" wheel and I have touched them up using an angle grinder and spinning the wheel with out a saw on, the idle side can be mounted on the drive side to do this.   

Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

ladylake


No need to put the idle side on the drive side to re crown the idle wheel ,just hold the angle grinder at angle to the wheel and it will get it spinning.  I've beveled the outside edges of my belted wheels which keeps the blade from hitting the wheel.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

kelLOGg

All in favor of re-crowning, say "aye". The "ayes" have it and that includes Tim Cook. I heard from him today and it was a definite "yes, they need re-crowning". I doubt I will try to do it myself - probably send it to Cooks.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

ladylake

 They may need re crowning but you'll still find some brands of blades track different even after you get them re crowned .  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Thank You Sponsors!