sawtooth oak acorns

[bitternut]

 I have quite a number of gobbler sawtooth oak that are approaching 10 years of age. For the last 3 or 4 years they have had small acorns that don't get much larger than the ones pictured. They hang on the trees through winter and then seem to drop off in the spring or early summer. I have some near the NY PA border and some on the south shore of Lake Ontario in western NY. Climate and soil type seems to make no difference. When can I expect to get some real acorns on these trees or are these it?

[beenthere]

Don't know if those are the 'mature' acorns, but this site says producing acorns in 5-6 years.
http://www.naturehills.com/new/product/productdetails.aspx?proname=Gobbler+Sawtooth+Oak&Campaign_id=65&user=sschulze

And another, toting the high production of acorns.
http://www.womenintheoutdoors.org/toolkit/Conservation/GobblerSawTooth.html

[Tom]

I am only repeating what I found but most sites say that the Gobbler Sawtooth Oak is like the Sawthooth Oak except the acorns are smaller.  (a desiraable trait)

They bear in 5 or 6 years.

http://www.trees-online.com/types_of_trees/gobbler_sawtooth_oak.shtml

[bitternut]

Yep, everything you found about sawtooth oak is correct. But I have a hard time believing that the acorns are supposed to be as small as what I have seen. Some friends of mine have some of the same type and they seem to be producing equally small acorns.

 As far as the leaves being retained quite late they actually hang on till the new ones come out.They also produce a lot of leaves. Very heavy foliage for an oak tree.

 I have been unable to find any pictures of mature acorns or anyone who has any trees that bear a good crop. Anybody out there got a picture of gobbler sawtooth acorns they can post?

[Tom]

This site says they are 3/8" to 1" long.   Egg-shaped; about ¼ enclosed by shallow cup with hairy scales.

http://www.wildlifegroup.com/plantlist.htm

I guess that your's aren't mature yet.

This site blames a small grub for premature acorns dropping and if the acorn is intact then it is just superflous dropping from a too heavy crop.
http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extnews/hortiscope/tree/oak.htm

Put this in google
oak premature acorn
                                                                          

[Brian_Bailey]

Bitternut,

About 10 years ago I planted 25 sawtooth oak on my property for the turkeys. The trees were being hyped by the Wyoming County soil / water service as being able to produce 1000 lbs of acorns per tree and will start to bear in 4 to 5 yrs.

BUNK

I haven't gotten enough acorns off them to fill a coffee cup and some of them are close to 20' tall.

I'm going to pull them out and plant American Chestnut in their place.
At least the chestnuts that I have planted in the past have produced a fair amount of nuts.

[bitternut]

Well Brian it sure is a small world. The first ones that I bought also came from Wyoming County soil & water. I happened to get a wrapper with mine that had the name of the nursery that supplied the trees. It is located in Clearfield PA. The next couple of years I bought a bunch direct from them. This spring I gave them a call and asked about what was happening with the acorns and they were not much help. They told me that they buy their acorns from some place in Tennesee and don't have any trees of their own for a seed source. I was kind of hoping that they had a proven northern strain. I have too many to replace with some thing else plus at my age I am not about to start over. Any that die will surely be replaced with a different kind of oak like this hybrid white oak that is only about 5 years old at most and has close to 200 acorns on it.

[bitternut]

Darn, screwed up loading the picture. I'll try it again.

[Brian_Bailey]

Bitternut,  

I know what you mean about starting over!

I was leary when I first seen them offered, 1000 lbs./ tree seemed like a lot. But I figured what the heck, I'll give em a try.

Now 10 years later, I'm disappointed in them and the dang'd deer won't even touch them. So they're coming out. I noticed that the Wyo. Co. S / W doesn't state 1000 lbs. per tree anymore in their listing.

I'd like to give those hybrid W.Oak a try.

Are they from a local nursery?  

[bitternut]

Hi Brian

No the seedlings are not from a local nursery. They came from a nursery in Kalamazoo Michigan called OIKOS TREE CROPS. They have quite a few different hybrid oaks. I think the one in the picture is a hybrid called "BURENGLISH" but I am not certain. I bought several different hybrids and thought that they would be easy to tell one from the other so I did not tag them. Wrong! I hope that maybe if I send them a picture of the tree they can identify which hybrid it is for sure. I will probably be getting more of them to fill in where some of the other trees have died.

They have a bunch of other tree hybrids also and other unusual native trees and shrubs. I have some hybrid filbert/hazel, persimmons, paw-paw and hybrid chestnuts. I kind of enjoy planting different trees. Some day I am sure there will be a forester marking my woods for a timber sale and trying to figure out just what the heck kind of oak tree he is marking.

I will be sending OIKOS a few pictures of the acorns and leaves. Hopefully they will be able to tell me what I have. I would like to get some more of this one hybrid that seems to be a good one. If you want a catalog their phone number is 616-624-6233. They have a small catalog but are not online as yet.

[etat]

I been studying on this problem in the back of my ole head off and on for a spell.  I have no experience in growin acorns.  However if these trees were mine I might investigate trying one more thing before cutting them down.  

I wonder if there are any particular type of fertilize or soil additives that would jumpstart them acorns into getting bigger.  If nothing else I think I'd try a little fertilize around a few of the trees for a year as an experiment.  Does anybody think or know if this would be helpful or not?

[Brian_Bailey]

Thank you for the info., Bitternut.  

I'm going to give those hybrid W. Oaks a try.
That amount of acorns on a young tree is what I'm looking for.

I've planted standard w. oak but they are so slow growing compared to the red oak. The red oaks are already bearing acorns.

I have three hazelnut trees that keep me busy trying to keep them trees. They seem to think they want to be bushes  :D :D. But the nuts are delicious,if I can get them before the squirrels do.

Your comment about the future foresters made me laugh because I've had simular thoughts  ;D. They'll be consulting their tree ID book quite often when marking my wood lot too. :D :D.

cktate,

I fertilized them when they were planted. I don't think it would help much other than making em grow faster rather than develop more acorns.

I noticed that they're native to China, Japan, and Korea and introduced in 1962 to this country, maybe they just don't like being in the USA  ;).

 

[bitternut]

Yes I have tried fertilizing. I usually apply 15-15-15 in the early spring.This year I did not apply any at all. So far the only difference noticeable is that the grass and weeds around the trees are not as lush as usual. The trees seem to be doing quite well without the fertilizer and are showing their normal growth. There are also plenty of tiny acorns but the problem seems to be that they drop off at the beginning of their second season. Since they are in the Red Oak family two seasons are required for the acorns to develop. At first I thought that the low winter temps (-20F +) was killing them but I have a couple of trees here at home that exhibit the same characteristics and it never gets below 0 degs here. They are growing about 100' from the south shore of Lake Ontario which is open water all year. Oh well, just have to wait and see I guess. Maybe some day they will start producing.

I did some checking and the nursery that I got some hybrid oaks from is finally on line. Here is the link for any of you who like to try planting different things. They have a lot of seedlings that you don't see very often.
http://www.oikostreecrops.com/oaks.htm

[RMay]

Looks like you have a hybrid sawtooth the acorns on them will not mature . :-/

[Brian_Bailey]

Finally got some sunshine so I could snap some pictures.

Here is an acorn on one of my 20' Sawtooth Oak.  I far as I can tell there are about a dozen acorns on this tree and I agree with R.May as I have never seen a mature one.




Here is a picture of just a portion of one of my Amer. Chestnuts, this tree is also about 20' tall and will be loaded with nuts this fall. This tree is a real good producer and I'll be very sad if the blight ever hits it :'(.

[bitternut]

Well Brian and anyone else who wants to plant some early producing white oak hybrids I finally got an identification on just what variety I had that was producing acorns already. I sent a picture of the leaves and the acorns to Oikos Tree Crops in Michigan where I had purchased them and they told me it was a variety called Burgamble. I know I will be planting more of them come spring.

[Stephen_Wiley]

PATIENCE........ONE & ALL !!!

Species reproduction can vary based upon a multitude of factors; e.g., age, soil type, available light, disease / pest issues, and other environmental factors.

Most plant life only reproduce when the plant is expeirencing stress brought on by less than ideal growing conditions.  Thus fertilization will  usually nullify any stress, which of course will not result in any fruit production.

In this particular case the trees are adolescents,  so fruit production will be immature.

Although their are exceptions with some species characteristics being more fruitful.  Time is a chief factor in allowing these trees to reach a mature age which will result in the production many of you desire.

A little neglect may also help in achieving your goals.

[Brian_Bailey]

Most plant life only reproduce when the plant is expeirencing stress brought on by less than ideal growing conditions.

A little neglect may also help in achieving your goals.

 :D :D My trees should be bent over with abundance  :D :D


Herb,  

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna give their "Burenglish Oak - Quercus macrocarpa x robur" a try because of their tolerance to clay soil.