What's your experience with small business?

Kelvin · July 11, 2004, 05:08:42 PM

I just read an interview with a custom furniture maker in Fine woodworking and was wondering if it was pretty representitive of most small businesess. This guy's work is apparently in museums around the country and is considered a very excellent woodworker. This is the jist of what he said.

"What would you say to someone who was thinking of starting a business like yours?"

"Don't do it. Then i'd start from the ground up and ask if he was willing to make the business the primary thing in his life and all things secondary. He'd have to live in his workshop, and put in 60-70 hrs a week. He wouldn't make any money the first 10 yrs, and not much after that. He would have to work harder than everybody else would. "

Would you say that this would be accurate for a small business to really make it? I mean support you, pay for insurance, have a savings and retirement? I was thinking this is might be why i'm not making much headway with my sawmill business. i'm treating it like a 9-5 job. Sure i put in a bunch of weekends and what not, saying its only to get things going, but maybe this is how much you have to suffer to make a one man show perform? Maybe the guy was just ultra perfectionist, and didn't treat his woodworking like a commodity, but like art. I have a feeling some of what he's saying is true when i look at all the small owner run businesess i know of, they work all week long, and all evening long, and live there. Anything less and the big stores will put them out

What's your experience with your small business? Any hope for making it not the number one commitment and still surviving? I would like to include family, friends, and whole lot more to get out of life than sacraficing myself to some inanimate object like a business. I guess maybe if you only have one shot to shoot in life and then your done it might make some sense, but i think humans should be looking at a bigger picture than that. Can't figure it out, what do you think?

woodhaven · July 11, 2004, 05:43:31 PM

Its a known "FACT" that for the first 10 years of a small business you have to EAT, DRINK, SLEEP and DREAM nothing but your business. If you survive the first 10 years you "MIGHT" make it. Even then you have to always stay on top of things. I gave up my business cause I wanted a life. When I retire in a few years I plan to go back in full time. At that point it won't matter if I make it or not cause it will be for fun and not to support a family.

leweee · July 11, 2004, 06:36:24 PM

Check out Tom's secret's to success in the Knowledge Base.
Sound advise.

Rod · July 11, 2004, 07:02:01 PM

My parents had a small business before I was born and they had it while I was growning up.They worked from 6 AM till 12 a night 7 days a week 365 days a year.

It was like the 7-eleven's are today.They had 3 of them

It wasn't hard work,just a lot of it,and they had me and my brothers and sisters working there too.They worked like that for 20 yaers and then retired.

They sold there small businesses to people but they would go under and they would aske my dad if he would buy them back and he would and he would sale them again and the same thing would happen.

Percy · July 11, 2004, 09:19:20 PM

My first crack at self employment/small business was in log trucking. It went very well for 10 years, but, eventually alot of other folks seen what was happenin and bought trucks as well. Rates dropped due to the abundance of trucks and easy access to money/financing and the gravy train ran outta tracks for me.
  This sawmilling thing is different as alot of people have watched and tried but its too tuff a job for most folks. Ive only been at it full time for about 15 months but sawmilling has been a substantial part of my income for the last seven years. To be able to make money at this(enuff to eat), I have a phone prettywell permanently attached to my head. Im constantly looking out for logs to buy, lumber buyers( the sawmill co-op thing has helped immensly the last 9 months) and any opportunity to further my business.
  One thing I have learned in the last couple of years is quality and service are paramount. I have customers who are willing to pay more for these two things. Ive chucked alot of wood into the "yoot" pile(utility) these days that I wouldnt have a few years ago. The net result is positive.
   If you love milling Kelvin, you will find a way. Ive learned not to compare days anymore but look back at what was happening last year and, well, its better. Gives me a positive boost...I do get tired and frustrated once in a while but looking back in this manner helps...me anyways.
Hang in there and good luck to you.

Kelvin · July 12, 2004, 04:56:10 AM

Can't find Tom's secret to sucess in the knowledge base. Is there a search engine? What's it under? THanks
Kelvin

Patty · July 12, 2004, 04:56:39 AM

It all comes down to what kind of business you are planning to own, and how bad do you want it. I have been self employed many times. Anywhere from selling real estate, to owning a restaurant, running a catering service, to selling medical equipment. Each has its own set of problems, each requires very long hours, many times 7 days every week. The hardest business I ever tried was the restaurant. I arrived there at 4:00 every morning, and left around 11:00 every night, 7 days a week. It was not a fun way to earn a living.
What I learned from most of the business ventures is that there are definitely easier ways make money.(show up, punch a clock, go home) However, owning your own business gathers with it a sense of pride and accomplishment. Yea, the hours are VERY long, yea, sometimes the money is just not there to pay the rent, yea, you lay awake at night worrying. But you also can say at the end of the day that you did work hard and you worked hard for you and your family, nobody else. You get the opportunity to involve your kids with your life, work side by side with your spouse. Both of our sons worked at our business, and I think they learned so much. I know we are closer as a family because we all worked together, depended upon each other.
Owning your own business is a personal decision. No one but you can determine if you want to make the sacrifices it requires, no one but you will reap the benefits. One thing is very important is that you really need the support of your spouse. If that is not there, your job will be even harder.

I couldn't find Tom's secret to success either. Maybe I should read it before I give advice!

Norwiscutter · July 12, 2004, 06:27:53 AM

I know how you feel Kelvin, believe me, alot of us do. It is fun to laugh at the people that think you got it made cause you own your own job. (I really don't consider it owning your own business until you are able to take a vacation and the wheels keep turning while you are gone.) Some people say 10 years is the critical point, others say 5 years.... I started off hoping it was 5 realizing that 10 might be closer to the truth. Not to say that I don't enjoy it, It can just be stressful at times.

Read the post about what we all do for real, and it was interesting to see that not to many of us do this full time. I think that most of us have tried to incorporate the sawmilling into their lives with the hope that maybe some day it will take over, until then we will just have to be content with living the dream part time.

There are alot of people I know that are extremly successful business owners, but to a man, they all had to work there rear ends off to get there. Even the ones that had it comparitively easy still had to take the chance and put there money where there mouth is. I think I read somewhere that most owners of major corporations went bankrupt at some point in there lives, showing that they wern't afraid to fail. Not to say that any of us will end up owning Georgia Pacific's competition, but you got better chance at doing so than if you never tried in the first place.

Your success is going to be dertermined by your own perception of your situation, so if you are unhappy with no light at the end of the tunnel, sometimes you gotta cut your losses and move on. But before I would do that, I would be sure that you have played your hand out till you could walk away with no regrets.

For what its worth, It always helps me to pray on it.

leweee · July 12, 2004, 08:54:37 AM

Sorry for not being specific." business tips"under contents & click on "bandsaw milling".... all in all good insight. Lewis

Frickman · July 12, 2004, 09:09:45 AM

I don't know any other way to live than owning a small business. I can't imagine punching a clock for someone else. There are alot of long hours, but if it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

ARKANSAWYER · July 12, 2004, 09:40:30 PM

   I went to the bank because I got sawdust in my blood and wanted a mill. Banker asked me for my business plan and I told him I planed on getting up with the sun and going down with the sun and sawing all the time in between. 3 1/2 years later I am still doing it and alot of it as I had a million bdft on a small band mill in just 3 years. I still work by the sun and my wife knows I will be in after dark to eat and the kids can tell you if the mill is home or not. I am there when they need me and they often help. I love what I do.
  There was a ole boy not far from me who started a 5 & 10 store and worked very hard at it. Not far from him was another who was messing with chickens. Now are they very large and and near all of you. Seems these ole Arkansas boys know how to expand and make things happen in the business world. So like the Rockafellers, Tysons', Dillards', and Sam Walton there will one day be an ARKANSAWYER SAWMILL in your home town as well. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
  You have got to eat, breath and live your small business untill it is not small any more and like your kids can stand on it's own. Every time I see the light it is a coal train and not a log on it. ;D

Brian_Bailey · July 13, 2004, 06:19:00 AM

Arky,

I definitely agree, that self promotion is a necessary ingredient for a successful business.

But, let me save ya some expansion dollars.

Hold off from coming to my area because the wally marts, home depo's, & etc.'s have depleted the mininum wage work force.
This will only leave you a unionized one to utilize, which in turn, will make you have to price your services so high that the above mentioned concerns will easily be able to undercut your prices and put you out of business.
Nope, Dummies they ain't!

Yep, Free enterprize. Ya gotta love it :D :D.

Pete J · July 13, 2004, 06:26:37 AM

I'm still waiting to read the post about needing wheelbarrows to roll all the cash to the bank.

I guess those guys are too busy doing "Real Estate" infomercials on cable TV.

EZ · July 13, 2004, 05:50:57 PM

I myself as most of you know is a clock pusher. I love to saw and cant wait to get home to see if someone called. Would I go full time with the sawmilling, in a heart beat I would. But as I said before, I would be a fool to quit my shop job. Besides that my wife would skin me alive if I came home and told her I quit. ;D So until the shop goes to Mexico, I'll be their, like it or not.
I thought and still think if I was a full time sawyer what I would do.
1. Pray alot
2. Work from daylight to after dark
3. Treat people the way I like to be treated
I know I wont be a rich man, but I would have alot of fun trying.
EZ

Left_Coast_Rich · July 13, 2004, 06:52:45 PM

Kelvin
When the wolf is at the door is not the best time to make business decisions. Look at your business plan and modify it to more reflect where you are on the cash flow end. Where do you need to tweek it, where are the assumption incorrect and realign the numbers. If everything looks OK and is within what you estimated. Then redevelop your marketing plan. It seems that I remember you having excess lumber in your front yard with a for sale sign on it. That is not marketing. Marketing is most easily summed up by providing to your customer what they either can not or will not do for themselves and filling the void with your product. If I remember correctly and excuse me if I am wrong, you are in the Michigan area. Have you considered starting to market into the urban areas of Chicago or any large metro areas close by. There should be open air markets or farmers markets that could get you in the door. Take a small amount of lumber with you and see what it does. Remember think outside the box. Tell yourself that you will do this for 6 months before making a decision. Get names of people who come by for future notification of "Sale items" Every good business must market itself or die. Sorry for getting wordy. I just want you and others to succeed in your dream. LC Rich

Marketing is what I do, I market real estate for people who don't and can't do it themselves. There are good years and there are bad years. I like the good years best. :D

ADfields · July 13, 2004, 09:39:52 PM

To be an owner of a business is to need to work harder then most for less pay in the end. This is what most people don't understand when they start. They often start a business looking only at the income then later find the old fraze "you must spend it to make it" to be all to true! :

Some ride it out and put in the hard work it calls for, but most don't. The SBA has studies that show most people running a successful business have had an average of 5 failed businesses before they made one work, it's the learning curve some call the school of hard knocks! :'( It's a very hard road that you can never tell what is at the other end of and to me thats the best part. A job is part of your life but a business becomes your life, your familys life, thats not bad, it's just different. I regret nothing and cant see how I could have worked a 9to5 for 20 years, even at pay around 100K, as hard as I have had it that would have been much harder for me.

I'm with Rich on the marketing! ;) If you cant sell you better stay out of business as that IS what business is all about. You could have the best thing since sliced bread but it's useless if you cant convince someone someplace they need it! ;) Then when you find a guy that will buy it you got to be looking for someone you can convince that they want it more then the first guy. ;) Thats marketing, thats sales, thats what drives all business. 8)
Andy

etat · July 13, 2004, 09:40:32 PM

I started my own roofing when my old boss fired me just as I was quitting. Occasionally I'd get an offer from one furniture factory or another to take a supervisor position. The thing is, I had really learned to HATE furniture factories. And Bosses of all kinds.. About the time I was walkin out the door he fired me and told me if I was gonna be a Roofer to 'get outta town'. Ticked me off pretty good. I still partially owed for a truck I had bought from him that had his name on it. He tried to buy it back. I turned around and paid it off. He told me to get his name off of the truck. I went home, took a hair drier and peeled part of the letters and numbers off the truck, trimmed em up a bit, and stuck em back on. Except this time they said Tate Roofing instead of ........Roofing. Made me up a flier and went to BenchCraft, borrowed their copy machine, and run off oh, probably about a thousand copies. Withing two days I had em stuck all over town, and the county. Ocassionally one would get stuck on the front door of HIS business! I took weekly ads out in the local paper. The war was on. He fought me tooth and nail when I was trying to get licensed and bonded. He lost. First two years, I *DanG near starved to death in the winter time. . To get by in between jobs I'd help frame houses, put up sheetrock, anything I could do to make a dollar. I will say though I always forged ahead, and never looked back. Now I get offers of more work than I can, or want to do and haven't been caught up in over two and a half years, spring, winter fall and summer. Do nothing but roofing. It's hard work but the best move I ever made.

etat · July 13, 2004, 09:45:57 PM

One more thing, for the first few years practically EVERY PENNY I made that didn't go on bills I put back into the business. I'd take whatever extra profits there were and upgrade tools and equiptment. The least little bit left I wouldn't spend, I'd save it for when there was no work. Things were pretty tough for a LONG time.

Percy · July 13, 2004, 10:59:17 PM

QuoteI started my own roofing when my old boss fired me just as I was quitting. Occasionally I'd get an offer from one furniture factory or another to take a supervisor position. The thing is, I had really learned to HATE furniture factories. And Bosses of all kinds.. About the time I was walkin out the door he fired me and told me if I was gonna be a Roofer to 'get outta town'. Ticked me off pretty good. I still partially owed for a truck I had bought from him that had his name on it. He tried to buy it back. I turned around and paid it off. He told me to get his name off of the truck. I went home, took a hair drier and peeled part of the letters and numbers off the truck, trimmed em up a bit, and stuck em back on. Except this time they said Tate Roofing instead of ........Roofing. Made me up a flier and went to BenchCraft, borrowed their copy machine, and run off oh, probably about a thousand copies. Withing two days I had em stuck all over town, and the county. Ocassionally one would get stuck on the front door of HIS business! I took weekly ads out in the local paper. The war was on. He fought me tooth and nail when I was trying to get licensed and bonded. He lost. First two years, I *DanG near starved to death in the winter time. . To get by in between jobs I'd help frame houses, put up sheetrock, anything I could do to make a dollar. I will say though I always forged ahead, and never looked back. Now I get offers of more work than I can, or want to do and haven't been caught up in over two and a half years, spring, winter fall and summer. Do nothing but roofing. It's hard work but the best move I ever made.

Good story...do you think youda stuck it out if you didnt have that ornery ex- boss breathin down your neck?? Ill bet he wishes now that he and you coulda seen eye to eye. ;D

oakiemac · July 14, 2004, 07:23:50 AM

Percy, how did you get started in the co-op? What kind of arangement do you have worked out, like who buys the logs and how is all the lumber divied out?
I'm intrigued by the concept of several saw mill working together. Seems like a good idea, but there might be a lot of legal and buisness issues.

Sorry to horn in on your thread Kelvin but I think this goes along with the idea of the thread.

GHRoberts · July 14, 2004, 02:51:53 PM

My wife is a CPA. She works with our daughter in their small firm.

She sees a lot of small businesses. There are 2 things you need. Cash on hand for expenses. Knowledge of your business. Many people lack one or the other.

Cash lets you take advantage of opportunities and let's you say NO.

Knowledge keeps you on the good end of business decisions.

Oh, starting her business...

It was a lot easier for her than for those whose have posted here. We had time and money for more than just getting by. But then she was not learning as she ran her business and sh had enough money for whatever the business needed.

Percy · July 15, 2004, 09:10:24 AM

QuotePercy, how did you get started in the co-op? What kind of arangement do you have worked out, like who buys the logs and how is all the lumber divied out?
I'm intrigued by the concept of several saw mill working together. Seems like a good idea, but there might be a lot of legal and buisness issues.

Sorry to horn in on your thread Kelvin but I think this goes along with the idea of the thread.

Heya Oakiemac
The way we got started was on an order that one of us dug up but was waaay too large to do by hisself. That particular endeavor was a disaster but it got us together. We are cutting maily WRC for one big customer. Quality control is simple. My lifts are marked P.M.G., Kermode Procut is marked KPC....you know the drill. Coastal Milling(another member) does the Marketing/paperwork for all these loads. They are paid a percentage of these loads for doing that.
We are writing up a constitution right now which will deal with the legal aspects of matters mainly because we have leased a plot of land(40 acres) from the government wher we can all set up in close proximity to each other. Its alot of work and keeping everyone focused on finishing orders is a challenge at times when local small customers who we have dealt with us for years are wondering why we cant just cut it right now like we used to.