Carbide Chains

[d1hamby]

Who uses carbide chains besides me? I've seen some people talk about carbide coated chains on this forum, but that is not really what I'm talking about. There are all kinds of carbide chains for cutting wood, rescue, filing wood, cutting cinder block and some stone. There are also diamond chains for plunge cutting concrete, but I'm not really interested in those either. I'm more interested in how people use their carbide chains for everyday cutting and how they justify using them. Personally I've found them way more cost effective than steel chains for more of the everyday cutting. I use Pico Duro 3's, a 12" 0.050" 3/8 pitch on my Stihl 130 pole saw and a 16" 0.050" 3/8 pitch on my Stihl 362.

[Oliver1655]

Can you post of photo of the chips you are getting from the carbide chain?

[d1hamby]

I will post pictures of the chips next time I cut some trees and remember to take pictures of the chips. My experience with the Stihl carbide chains is that they are slightly more aggressive of a cut  than the steel chains. The aggressive cut makes thicker chips, but they're not as long, they seem to break apart. The chip size can be changed by adjusting the tooth angle and the raker. Have you seen different results with your chains?

[Al_Smith]

Carbide faced chain is merely an alternative for people who either don't like to file a chain or are not adept at it .I've yet to see one that can cut as fast as a properly filed chisel chain .

For all intents they have to be machined sharpened and are more costly so there really isn't any cost savings .If you hit a nail with it it ruins a couple of cutters and the chain is worthless .

[stihltoomany]

I have 2 Stihl Duro carbide chains and I love them. You are correct if you hit steel it will damage cutters. Mine just chipped 3 or 4 cutters. Ran it for days that way. Carbide may be slower than rm chain but I really don't notice it. Cut speed is only one indicator of the time required for the job, I think about the time saw is actually working.  I like it for less experienced operators, they can stick it in the dirt with out any problems. Bring your hand filed rs chain out and cut fence row trees for a couple weeks and then tell me how worthless carbide is. Yes carbide has to be sharpened with a diamond wheel, dealer did it for $12. That chain had alot of run time on it, probably would have dulled a dozen or more regular chains. I tuned the rakers a little and it cuts amazing. Yes its expensive, $54 for 16" .325 i think, that is why I use it on limbing saws. I originally bought carbide for cutting power poles, but liked it so well I started using it for regular cutting. Different jobs, different chains. 8)

[d1hamby]

Carbide faced chain is merely an alternative for people who either don't like to file a chain or are not adept at it .I've yet to see one that can cut as fast as a properly filed chisel chain .

For all intents they have to be machined sharpened and are more costly so there really isn't any cost savings .If you hit a nail with it it ruins a couple of cutters and the chain is worthless .

I sharpen all my chains because I don't like the way any of the shops or anybody else has sharpened them.  I mostly use a Milwaukee adjustable speed grinder with a diamond bit, and sometimes a file on the steel chains and the rakers. 

I've had machine sharpened carbide chains and I personally like to hand sharpen them. If you hit a nail with a carbide chain you may lose a few teeth but it will keep cutting without any problem. It is not until there are only a few teeth left that it is worthless.

Have you actually used a carbide chain?

[BradMarks]

I can remember when St. Helens blew, if you didn't have carbide chain to "fight" with all the ash and pumice you couldn't get anything done at all.  They do have their place in certain job sites.

[d1hamby]

I can remember when St. Helens blew, if you didn't have carbide chain to "fight" with all the ash and pumice you couldn't get anything done at all.  They do have their place in certain job sites.

Here in FL the sugar sand is everywhere, it is very similar to the pumice. You can't get through very much wood, maybe cutting through 20-30' of wood, before a steel chain needs sharpening.

[d1hamby]

Here are some pictures:



 
 

 


 


 

[Andyshine77]

The chips/dust, have the making of a really long day.

Most chain problems can be attributed to a couple common, and from what I've seen, habitual issues people seem to have with saw chain.

First and foremost, is simply knowing how to properly sharpen a chain. Too much hook and the tooth won't stay sharp long. This seems to be one of the more common problems people have when it comes to sharpening chain. The normal reaction is often to blame the equipment instead of the end user.

The other, and just as common issue. People simply don't know when to stop and give the chain a quick touch up. Instead they just keep cutting. This compounds the issue. The longer you cut with a slightly dull chain, the harder and more time it will take to sharpen the chain. If you don't like sharpening chain in the field, take extra chain with you.

Now I'm sure Carbide chain may have it's place, I'm simply not sure where.

I know people that cut in FL. Unless you're cutting on the beach, the damp conditions are far better than what you'd find in the Midwest, or somewhere like Australia. If you can't make due with semi chisel chain, you're likely the problem, not the chain. IMHO.       

   

[Al_Smith]

To the previous question of have I used carbide chain ,yes .I however do not own any as I feel it is an unneccessary item .Different strokes for different folks.

I did however have a young lady at the Stihl shop try and sell me some for a 200T .The shop owner overheard the conversation and started laughing .He told the  young lady she'd have better luck trying to sell ice to Eskimos than carbide chain to Smitty . :D

[Jiles]

For what it's worth-----I removed nine large sweet gum trees by digging around with a backhoe and falling the entire tree by pulling with a 4x4 truck and pushing with the backhoe. Since most of you know, sweet gums have a large tap root, and they are difficult to dig up.
I bought a 16" Stihl carbide chain to cut the roots??? I would dig and remove as much dirt as possible, use an ax for the small roots and then cut the larger roots. I soon discovered that my regular chains would quickly dull, as expected,  but could be sharpened.
The problem with the carbide tipped chain, was that the carbide tip would break off!
Yes I know that it was not designed for cutting dirty roots, but I wanted to try.
I even resharpened what teeth were left with a carbide wheel used with my Oregon sharpener.
I ended up just using several chains--used with old bars--- and the scrapping all of them along with the carbide chain, when I finished.
I suppose some people would be satisfied with a carbide chain but carbide can't be sharpened as sharp as a regular chain and, for me, cutting was never as fast as with a regular chain.
Plus, regular chains can be file sharpened where special wheels must be used on carbide.
I would think that it would be difficult to find someone willing to sharpen one.

[lumberjack48]

I used Carlton Carbite surfaced chain for a few yrs when i had a landing man bucking up for me. He could cut up 4 to 5 times more wood before having to put a edge back on. I did the sharping in between felling timber. It would take 3 to 5 minutes to put the edge back on. I hand filed with no issues, files lasted 3 to 4 filings. I never had the points of the cutters break off, that is usually caused by a little to much hook.

[cutter88]

I don't like them for falling or any logging work, but we use carbide chain when clearing lots because we tend to be cutting low to the ground and around rocks

[Jiles]

[

[stihltoomany]

Stihl carbide chain is a specialty chain. If you don't have a need for it don't use it. I have never broken a cutter off as of yet. I only speak of Stihl Duro chain, it has the entire carbide cutter brazed on the link. I can't speak to the coated or other brands of carbide as I have never used them. As i have said it has worked very well for me, but only a couple saws wear carbide for certain jobs. Nice to have choices.

[d1hamby]

Stihl carbide chain is a specialty chain. If you don't have a need for it don't use it. I have never broken a cutter off as of yet. I only speak of Stihl Duro chain, it has the entire carbide cutter brazed on the link. I can't speak to the coated or other brands of carbide as I have never used them. As i have said it has worked very well for me, but only a couple saws wear carbide for certain jobs. Nice to have choices.

The only time I broke a tooth was when I tried to cut up some pallets and was cutting through the nails. The nails broke some of the teeth off but the chain kept cutting. The steel chain didn't cut at all after bumping into a nail.

Hopefully everyone has seen this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooAlNzRwndg
I also put up a new video with a new carbide chain. Let me know what you think.

[cutter88]

Well the wood in the landing has been to say the least "muddy" the past couple weeks and we buck up our trees with a chainsaw, I Tryed a few different chains over the past few years but Friday I broke down and bought a stihl carbide chaine for my 461... Gonna try it out Monday wish me luck!

[Piston]

I've often thought of buying one of these for my father's MS362.  He absolutely KILLS chains.  I sharpen them for him, and within 20 mins they are done.  He is always hitting the dirt, cutting through dirty wood, and not being mindful whatsoever about trying to keep his chains sharp.  I sometimes look over at him to see a smoking bar from the chain being so dull he is trying to push it through the wood! 

Please let us know how you like it, I'm hoping one of these could be the answer to my problems!

[beenthere]

Hey Piston..
As long as you sharpen them for him, why change..   ;D

[SawTroll]

I've often thought of buying one of these for my father's MS362.  He absolutely KILLS chains.  I sharpen them for him, and within 20 mins they are done.  He is always hitting the dirt, cutting through dirty wood, and not being mindful whatsoever about trying to keep his chains sharp.  I sometimes look over at him to see a smoking bar from the chain being so dull he is trying to push it through the wood! 

Please let us know how you like it, I'm hoping one of these could be the answer to my problems!

With a culprit like that a carbide chain likely won't stay sharp for long either, and it will be a hell of a challenge to sharpen.

[d1hamby]

Should this thread be combined with?:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,76263.0.html

[d1hamby]

I've often thought of buying one of these for my father's MS362.  He absolutely KILLS chains.  I sharpen them for him, and within 20 mins they are done.  He is always hitting the dirt, cutting through dirty wood, and not being mindful whatsoever about trying to keep his chains sharp.  I sometimes look over at him to see a smoking bar from the chain being so dull he is trying to push it through the wood! 

Please let us know how you like it, I'm hoping one of these could be the answer to my problems!

I use one for my MS362 and it makes it possible to keep working through the wood even after totally burying my whole bar in the sand.

[d1hamby]

I've often thought of buying one of these for my father's MS362.  He absolutely KILLS chains.  I sharpen them for him, and within 20 mins they are done.  He is always hitting the dirt, cutting through dirty wood, and not being mindful whatsoever about trying to keep his chains sharp.  I sometimes look over at him to see a smoking bar from the chain being so dull he is trying to push it through the wood! 

Please let us know how you like it, I'm hoping one of these could be the answer to my problems!

With a culprit like that a carbide chain likely won't stay sharp for long either, and it will be a hell of a challenge to sharpen.

I've never had any problem sharpening a carbide chain in the field with a diamond bit and a cordless rotary "dremel" tool. In fact I think it is easier to sharpen the carbide chains because the teeth tend to not wear as much and it is easier to keep the symmetry the same. My steel chains wear so unevenly that I have to take it back to the machine to get them to cut straight again.

[SawTroll]

Oh help - the mention of dremel shows me you basically know nothing about proper chain sharpening, only about more or less desperate "stop-gap" measures.......

[SawTroll]

....
I use one for my MS362 and it makes it possible to keep working through the wood even after totally burying my whole bar in the sand.

A much better option is of course to keep the chain out of the sand - why is it there in the first Place?

[d1hamby]

Video of new carbide chain
http://youtu.be/QZ8fp9WNVlo

[d1hamby]

....
I use one for my MS362 and it makes it possible to keep working through the wood even after totally burying my whole bar in the sand.

A much better option is of course to keep the chain out of the sand - why is it there in the first Place?

I just wanted to try it to see what would happen while I wasn't too deep in the field. Everything worked out fine.

[Andyshine77]

You'll destroy more than the chain doing that. The bar itself, bar sprocket, drive sprocket. You could also get some sand in the clutch drum.

[husky2100]

I know there supposly good chains i had one designed for rescue saws just make sure you lock that thing up at night.i only used mine once in some really dirty wood that was more dirt than wood and I finished up for the day came back to the house for the night i was going to get it sharpend and when i left to go help my buddy fix his saw and it was gone some one just took it right off my work bench and walked right out.

[d1hamby]

You'll destroy more than the chain doing that. The bar itself, bar sprocket, drive sprocket. You could also get some sand in the clutch drum.

You know you're right, I don't recommend doing that at all. I just was playing around and wanted to see where the sand collected if the chain got in the sand and then it was used in clean wood. I did find out that the sprocket I have cleans itself out really well and there wasn't any sand in my clutch drum. The bar on the other hand had a lot of wear and I scraped out the grove and saw there was still a lot of sand there. I had to redress the bar and wash it out. The chain was fine and it still cut quite well. After oiling it still works very smooth and I still use it for small trees and bucking.

[beenthere]

?? Is that pole pruner what you use the carbide chain on, and for small trees and bucking?

Do you have carbide chain on your other saws?

[John Mc]

Hopefully everyone has seen this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooAlNzRwndg

If my regular steel chain cut that slowly, I'm WAY past due for a sharpening. I could hand saw through that log faster than that.

[d1hamby]

Hopefully everyone has seen this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooAlNzRwndg

If my regular steel chain cut that slowly, I'm WAY past due for a sharpening. I could hand saw through that log faster than that.

That would even be more fun to watch.

[John Mc]

I meant to compare my steel chain to the steel chain in the video. 

The carbide chain actually did better than I expected. I've only made a coupe of cuts with a carbide chain (a chain with bits of carbide attached, not one that is "carbide coated"). A friend had one and let me try it. THat one seems slow and was throwing most dust than chips.

[stihlmania]

 I have Stihl RD chains for my 660 and 044. I use them for dirty wood mostly as they will cut slower than regular, well sharpened chain. But I have cut through rocks, nails, barb wire, you name it, and the carbide chains have only lost 3 cutters after 8 years of use.  My suggestion, for all chains, is to use bar and chain lengths that are matched to the chain oiler output of the saw to prevent premature bar wear and chain stretch. Basically that is the manufacturers recommended bar length. Use a shorter bar if it can do the job and your chain and bar will thank you.
I live on the Guadalupe River on the Texas hill country and most of my work is for flood damaged trees which have embedded rocks and limestone. Very abrasive cutting, regular chains will not last 30 seconds before being dulled. I do find almost every tree I am contracted to remove has multiple cuts in it before someone gave up!

[LeeB]

Sure would love to get ahold of some of those monster cypress growing along the banks. Beautiful trees. Wonder how old they are?

[stihlmania]

Lee, the last cypress I removed was a complete tree with roots wedged into a group of live oaks, a victim of the 02 flood, which I cut up in 2008. 56" diameter trunk, I was able to count 175 rings on a cut just above the the first main root...

[LeeB]

I never measured any of them, was too busy floating, but I seem to remember some of them being 8 ft in diameter or more. Real beauties. Would never think of taking one down on purpose, but boy what a load of lumber one would make.

[d1hamby]

I meant to compare my steel chain to the steel chain in the video. 

The carbide chain actually did better than I expected. I've only made a coupe of cuts with a carbide chain (a chain with bits of carbide attached, not one that is "carbide coated"). A friend had one and let me try it. THat one seems slow and was throwing most dust than chips.

Carbide chains do get dull too. Depending on the way it's sharpened it will cut macaroni or dust just like any other chain.