iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

ANOTHER SAW JOB FOR x-FRIEND !

Started by scully, July 01, 2014, 10:05:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

scully

So last winter I sawed some massive red oak for my neighbor .  He is very educated and new exactly how the sawing should be done ! This is all after a falling out we had ,yet he called me ..... Anyway here we are first day of July ,he is home from Florida for a couple weeks and has yet again scored some huge 34+ " red oak logs . He says he wants these 1/4 sawn . Okay I give him the speal about waste etc. NOPE he says thats not how you 1/4 saw ! Okay then what would you like ? Flat sawn from the pith ! ?????????  Says thats how 1/4 sawn is done . I leave get consultation return and tell him in detail exactly what the logs need to be sawn like . He seemed pi$$ed ....... I tell him this is what I know but I will saw them exactly as you wish .  He says there is no hurry , not sure what that means but really I don't care !  I will no longer let supperior intellect make me feel 2nd class I kinda hope he pulls the plug on me ,then let's see what he gets ..... Sorry about the rant guys ,just trying to learn how to brace my feet and stand my ground ...better ! On the upside I have been doing well ,every job this season the customers have been fantastic and overjoyed at the lumber I made for them !
I bleed orange  .

Bill Gaiche

I believe I would just explain to him that there has been issues before and you feel there will still be issues just as he questions your method of sawing. If you go ahead and saw his logs he may find an excuse to not pay you. If you do saw them maybe he should pay in advance. That way you at least have your money and he can take his lumber or leave it. bg

Magicman

Thankfully I have never dealt with a customer such as that.  I have used the lumber crayon on the log end so that I understand exactly what the customer wants.  I can bust a red line with a saw blade any day, even if it is on the other end.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

LeeB

Let the man find another sawyer. Life is too short to deal with this.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Don't let it bother you Scully. That guy is probably from the South and he don't know any better.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

ScottAR

What you describe is not superior intellect... only arrogance.   People can only make you feel inferior if you let them.  My not asked for advice is don't do it.  My short time on this earth has taught me that you can't tell someone who knows everything much of anything. 

If my temper got the better of me I might say some stuff like  :new_year: :-X...   but like a kidney stone this too shall pass. 
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

Tom the Sawyer

Scully,



 
I would just explain that my goal is milling lumber that meets the client's requirements and that it doesn't sound like you will be able to meet his expectations for those logs.  Certain milling techniques are not suited to every mill, nor every sawyer.  Rather than potentially messing up his logs, and losing a 'friend', you won't be able to mill his logs.  smiley_smug01

If the other local sawyers are your friends, I wouldn't make any recommendations...   smiley_thumbsdown
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

NMFP

Let him find someone else!  I had a customer similar one time, although I don't think as bad and he kept telling me how to saw his 12" tulip poplars!  I told him if he wanted to saw them his way, come to the controls and make it happen!  He made 2 cuts and then I was back at the controls and didn't say a word after that.

He now buys lots of lumber from me rather than having logs milled so not sure why the change but life's too short for dealing with those that want to be in charge all of the time.

Save yourself the headaches and just agree to not saw his lumber.... it might sting at first but the pain will go away quickly.

Barney II

He called you because he tried the same thing with someone else and they threw him out. I  Worked 50 years in a University town everyone is educated---run--let him go no matter.  :D  :D :D
Ya never know
Woodmizer  1985 lt30

Small Slick

Crappy pain in the butt customers are a just that but their money spends just as good as the easy ones. However, in business a person has to be selective about which jobs they are willing to take. In this case if you are concerned he won't pay you then the risk isn't worth the reward. Sounds to me like he is insulting and I personally would structure the deal so the reward was high and the risk was low. If he is such a jerk no amount of money would get me to do it.

It's not like he is still your friend anyway.

John

steve marek

I would tell him were nearest saw mil dealer is and tell him go buy your own mill and you can saw them anyway you want
WM LT40HD logrite ach 718 woodmaster timber framing tools 3000 ford tractor 359 395 husky chainsaw woodmizer e50 single blade edger woodmizer 260 moulder 2538 mahindra tractor kd 250 kiln

Cedarman

I get into these situations once in a while when people order lumber.  It takes a while sometimes, but I tell that I know they have in their mind what they want and my goal is to make sure I understand.  Taking the time to make that the final product is what they expect eliminates a lot of problems.
With the neighbor, I would have stated I am not sure I understand exactly what you want.  Let's go to the log and you can show me what lumber you hope to get.  I would have a lumber crayon and off to the log we would go. I would have him mark the log.  If he marked it in a way that you could not saw, then I would show him why that pattern could not be sawn.
If he didn't want to do that, then I also would bail.  But by having him mark the sawing pattern  he hoped to get, it should clear up what is needed.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

StimW

Check your gas gauge, refrigerator, Pantry, if any are empty then try to keep him happy.
I put up with a lot more when things are tight. The more you put up with the tighter it can get.
Tell him you are too busy.
New HF Band Mill
Branson 35 hp 4 WD Diesel Tractor W/Attachments- Backhoe, FEL W/ Bucket or Forks, 4' Tiller
4000# Clark Forklift W/24" Tires
Promark 6" Brush chipper W/18 hp Kohler

Joe Hillmann

If it was me I would have him draw out the cut's/pattern he wants directly on the logs.  Then it doesn't matter what he calls it: quarter, rift,flat, cathedral or any other name for what he calls it.  That way there will be no confusion in what he wants.  Then if you can't do it(too deep a cut, or the cut wouldn't go all the way through) let him know why it can't be done. 

You may have to have him mark each log or if he wants the same pattern for all of them he may only have to mark one.  If what he wants requires a lot of flipping, rolling, removing and putting back on of the cant make sure you charge accordingly and make sure he knows that upfront.

47sawdust

Around here we call people like that,'' sexual intellectuals'' or '' frackin no it alls''.They are everywhere!
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

kevin19343

Cut all his logs into pieces the size of a quarter.

Lonely Sawer

"Customer is always right".............. Who thought that s*&% up ???
Norwood LM29
Sthil 020 16" bar
Sthil 039  24" bar
Kubota L3130 HST W/Backhoe
78 Ford F-800 Boom truck
2017 Ram Laramie Longhorn 3500 Cummins 4x4 crew
Yamaha Viking SXS

Gadrock

Consider having him sign a "work order" first. It is kind of like a contract to perform and get paid. In the lower courts around here he would be required to pay...plus all other charges. A quick photo of the layout on the end and a pic or two of the wood pattern would cover you.

Good luck. He may even return to "friend" status. You are out some time, a blade, and some fuel. So you weigh the value of this trial in life. Again...good luck. We here will support you. And please allow us to know your decision.

David G


Carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

delvis

I used to spend (waste) time telling customers who act like this guy what they had for wood was not going to yield what they wanted for lumber or that they shouldn't be using soft pine for framing lumber.  Now, I smile and saw exactly what they want and let them deal with the wood they get.  It's remarkably refreshing when I get someone who has spent time logging or had other wood sawn for him or her before because they know what I need to produce a good product and the supply is always better for it.   
If I never saw another board I will at least die happy having spent the last few years working with my dad!

LaneC

   I came up with a term for folks like that several years ago. I call them "Educated Idiots"!  :D :D :D :D I made that up ;D.  I live, knowing that everyone is uneducated on certain things. Just because someone THINKS that they know more than you, I guarantee you there are things you could teach them, that they have no clue about. If he is trying to down you in any way by making you feel "less educated" then I would let him get educated in the price of a new mill, some banking education, some mechanical, electrical, hydraulic and forestry education on his own, and tell him to get back to ya when he learned how to do it.
Man makes plans and God smiles

minn-d

I have been gleening the wisdom (Thank you all)here for some time but I would like to contribute on this. My brother and I both have or on businesses ( sawing is for fun/therapy). We have concluded that there are some customers that you want and some that you want your competition to have.

Chuck White

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, minn-d
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: scully on July 01, 2014, 10:05:30 PM
NOPE he says thats not how you 1/4 saw ! Okay then what would you like ? Flat sawn from the pith ! ?????????  Says thats how 1/4 sawn is done . I leave get consultation return and tell him in detail exactly what the logs need to be sawn like . He seemed pi$$ed .......
Almost hesitate to make this post don't want to sound like lecturing and also it's too easy to armchair this situation, not like real life where yes there is an occasional customer who can really push my buttons....but anyway....

So what did he mean, flat sawn from the pith?  Doesn't any cut beginning through the pith give QS material?  Of course we know that sawing a log through the middle (first) will give unnecessary bowing, so we don't make that cut first.   But maybe there is something (emphasis something) right about what he's saying. 

I go with the crayon suggestions above, for good communication.  Keep working with him on the communication. Sawing shouldn't get between friends it's supposed to bring us all together.   
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Wintergreen Mountain

Scully:

   I haven't visited this  forum for quite a while, and the first thread i read was yours. Thank you for bringing me back to reality. It seems that everybody lately has known more about what i have known and done all my working life than i do, including the government.  Haven't had any trouble with sawing lumber, but have with all other topics. Seems that people today read a word such as "COW" and are from that point on are an authority on milk. beef, and crop growing and anything else associated with them..
   THANKS; Maybe I a'm not always wrong as i am told.
  LEON
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

Thank You Sponsors!