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What is your experience with band manufac claims?

Started by Kelvin, July 10, 2004, 04:48:11 AM

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Kelvin

I've talked with a lot of band blade manufactures, and tried 3 different brands, Woodmizer, Red Streak, and suffolk.  None of them seemed to be any different than the other.  Was just wondering what you guys thought was the big difference between different manufactures, and why they claim such amazing things.  Like suffolk sales guy told me i could saw through red oak as fast as my saw carriage could move.  When i got the blade it was no different than my woodmizers.  The red streaks are cheap and saw no different than the woodmizers so far.  Suffolk says you can sharpen theirs 2x as long, but if its like their other claim i would doubt it.  One critical point i've had made to me by a bandmiller is that most blades he uses die premature deaths due to metal scrap so he wants them as cheap as possible.  This makes sense to me, but i've been having the majority of my blades survive quite awhile.  I imagine the amount of scrap in a log is dependent on how much you paid for your blade!

Here are some claims i've heard from different manufac that i was wondering if you've had experience with.
1.  The band wheel tires from suffolk.  Do they really work like magic?  From the claims "no vibratioon, less sawdust sticking, wear 4x as long" it would seem to be a great idea
2.  woodmizer rep said my tension gauge goes down because the tires get hot and squish, not due to the band strecthing b/c of the heat, lack of coolant.  Is this right?  They said "Bands do not stretch!!"  I think all metal expands when it gets hot right?  I was using more coolant when the tension would go down, but i guess coolant is not the right word?
3.  What i call coolant is merely to keep the blade clean, not to cool the band?
4.  Wavy cuts are from the wrong set in the blade.  YOu need many different blades, and to change blades depending on the wood you cut.  Is this true?  Do you just use one blade with average set?  Suffolk said that pine chips expand 3x their size when cut with the band tooth and that woodmizer type gullets are too shallow to except all the sawdust causing the bands to heat and loose sharpness.  They seem more concerned with set than tooth hook.
5.  Woodmizer sent me some 4 degree hook blades for sawing in wood wider than 16".  Haven't tried yet, but this is their solution to wavy cuts in wider wood.  Is this correct?  They don't seem to change the set, which from my micrometer seems to be .072 on each tooth.  Is this too thin?  I was sold 2 boxes of 9 degree hook hardwood/fronzen wood blades when i bought my mill.  These do seem to be quite wavy in the pine after about 200 bd ft.  Sawdust does build up on the boards.  Suffolk says "this is critical evidence of it not being removed."
6,  Would i do better to sharpen my own blades and make the set the way i want for the lumber i'm sawing?
7.  I sent suffolk my Red Streak blades i bought used on ebay.  When they got them they said that they were "disposable blades.  Even red streak says so".  So i called Simonds, and sure enough they say "All band blades are meant to be disposable, not just ours.  Some people resharpen them"  I asked if their blades were any different the others, and they said infatically "No", but they say they are disposible.  Why would any company, in the light of all the resharpening hoopla, claim their blades were disposible?  How does that help them?  Liability?  I've heard WM is making all their money on the resharp program, and merely giving their mills away! (according to WM)
8  The red streaks i got used apparently are 3/4" tooth spacing, which suffolk said was bad.  What would this be used for?  And what is the right combo for what types of wood?  Hook, tooth space and set?
Sorry about the long post.  These claims have been piling up, and i haven't had time to post 'em.  Any help would be appreciated.  I'm thinking of trying the munkford blades, but are they really any different than suffolk?  Low tension sounds good.  Suffolk claims if i switch over to their 1 1/2" blades ($25), their blade guides ($400) their tires($54), that my mill will run 1000 bd ft per sharpening.  Blades will be sharpened 8-10x's, and that my mill bearings will last forever due to low tension/ no vibration.  I'll have better wood and save money in the long run.  What do you think?  Thanks
Kelvin

Brian_Bailey

Kelvin,

I wood take the sales hype for what it is.

I wood try several different brands and stick to the one that seem to work best for you.

Blade life is dependent on how fast the metal work hardens due to flexing around the wheels.

If you want long life from your blades you need to reduce the flexing. To get maximun mileage your wheel diameter must be in inches of what the thickness of the blade is that your running.

So if your running .045 blades, your wheel dia. should be at least 45".

The only trouble is, this isn't practical on small mills.

To get around this you need to grind the gullets more frequently before gullet cracks start to form and ruin your blade.

Manufacturers try to get around this by using a softer steel in the body of the blade and harden the tips of the teeth.

When I hear claims of a thousand bf between sharpenings I'm slightly skeptical  :).

I become very skeptical of someone when they claim that a product won't work well unless you use their retro fit.

Just my 2 cents  :).
  
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

MM

 When I worked for WM. Resharp added to the profit. IT was not the largest money maker for WM. I wouldn't think it is now.
  I run WM blades on my mills. One time I run a different blade that I go from a show. I didn't see much difference. WM is near me. so, I just use theirs. So far I've had really good luck with them. I've never had one break. They always cut very good for me.
  As far as the blade tension. The blades a move some. It's metal. Apply heat and it expands. Who ever told you that they don't strech is passing along mis-information.
  When you apply water to the blade it keeps the blade clean. The heat build up is caused buy friction. Now, you will always have friction. The blade passing thru the log... Now the friction can be greatly increased by build up of pitch on the blade. this causes more friction. Thus causes more heat. This isn't just a WM blade issue. All blades do the same thing.
   Wavy cuts could be a multitude of things.Dull blade, going to fast thur a cut, loose drive belt. Inproper alignment. Not enough blade tension.....   I've noticed on my 25hp kohler. That it is hard to make those wide cuts too. I have some 4 degree blades. that seems to help. I also have some .055 blades that I use on logs with lots of knots. I've found that helps to. Cann't cut as fast but it's not waving at you.
M.L. Morrow
812/614-1825

mike_van

I've tried a lot of different blades and have pretty much settled on Red Streaks from Cooks. I had some "bugs" in my shopbuilt mill & Tim Cook helped me work them out, good man. I use 196"  7/8"  x.042.  Their price is good, I send them back for probably 2 sharpenings.  I would guess 500 bf on a sharp blade if the logs are clean. I  was really impressed with the free 2" blade I got from Suffolk a few years ago, really cut straight, ran well too in my C.I.  Wright guides. It was just too much $$$ compared to Simmonds.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

gmmills

Kelvin,
   I use nothing but WM blades. I have tried Simonds Hardbacks , Suffolk, and Munkforsager.The Simonds blade performed very well and had great overall flex life,but were only 0.42 thick. The Suffolk blades are made of silicon steel . The steel is too soft and will bend very easily. They are not worth the extra money.The Munks blades worked real well. The only problem I have with them is they didn't have the flex life that I get from WM's. All brands,when sharp,did cut very well.
      I've used Suffolk wheel belts , 2 sets. They do work very well, but if you brake a blade and it stays in the wheel housing you will ruin them in 10 seconds!!! The friction of the wheel spinning against the blade body will glue the belts to the blade and ruin them. Had to cut the belts off with a knife just to get the blade out of the saw. They are not worth the money....
      If you lose blade tension the blade is getting hot and stretching. Flood the blade with coolant-water and watch the tension raise back to were it started,cooling down.
       Wavey cuts are generally caused by a dull blade, if you are running equal and the proper set for the wood you are sawing. Don't believe the theory that excess saw dust left on cant or board is a sign of too little set. It is actually a sign of too much set. It is true that the dust is not being removed. A blade that has too much set is creating  more saw dust than the gullet of the blade can carry out of the cut.  The excess dust spills out of the gullets and is left in the cut. This can cause excess friction on the blade body and cause the blade to heat up. The tension will drop and can cause wavey cuts.
  I 've been sharpening my own  blades for many years now . For me it is the only way to go.  
    
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

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