Straight truck question

[SPD748]

What length (wheel base and/or cab to axle) single axle, straight truck is commonly used for saw log hauling? I'm looking at something with a 21k rear, 12k front. Also, what weight of wood is legal on this setup?

-lee

[treeslayer2003]

that depends on what your gonna haul...........16' body seems to be good compromise.

[SPD748]

that depends on what your gonna haul...........

Indeed, I should have been more detailed in my question.

I'm considering (that is, figuring up all the costs involved) building a truck to haul logs to my sawmill. I'm thinking of something that would haul around 2 mbf. So far, I've been hauling around 1 mbf on my trailer. I'd really like to haul more and on a dedicated log truck. I'm having difficulty finding a logger to deliver to my mill however I think I can purchase logs from the landing. It seems that loggers in my area don't have time to run small loads to my mill and understandably so. I totally understand the 'dime holding up a dollar' thing. So, with that, I'm looking into a truck capable of hauling around 2 mbf of 16' and under sawlogs, which is a perfect load size for the saw jobs I do.

It may end up being cost prohibitive and/or simply a pipe dream but if I don't try, I'll never know.

-lee

[beenthere]

Farm grain trucks come to mind, that are only used a few times a year but have wood box's that are in need of repair. 
Having outlived their usefulness on the farm and may even come equipped with dump gear, maybe found at farm auctions.

[sawguy21]

This has been discussed. Are you sawing as a business? If so, is hauling which means an idle mill productive use of your time?
If you do go this route be aware of legal axle load limits, doesn't take much wood to overload a two axle truck.

[Autocar]

It depends on what kind of logs your hauling some are alot heavier. On my tri axle 20,000 front axle and 44's on the rear with 2,250 bd. ft. she will weigh in around 60,250 or little more. I haul white/bur oak most the time. But one thing I will tell you if you get a truck most the time your be heavy   :D. I'll look at my log pile and in my mind I'll figure out how many loads are laying there and before you know it a few more will go on the truck and then theres the trailer and before you know it theres a heavy load on it also. I never regret getting a truck moving equipment when I want to, it was worth every penny I spend on insurance and plates.

[SPD748]

This has been discussed. Are you sawing as a business? If so, is hauling which means an idle mill productive use of your time?
If you do go this route be aware of legal axle load limits, doesn't take much wood to overload a two axle truck.

My plan is to saw as a business, yes. I am currently custom sawing logs that others bring to me, on a small scale. I've had to turn down numerous orders because I can't get the logs needed, delivered. You are correct in that hauling would take away from the intended business however, I see no other way to get the needed raw materials. The question at hand is; can I make a truck work, financially? To answer that, I suppose I need to put the exact specifications and costs on paper.

I've read the posts of others looking down this same road. It would seem some did, and some did not go this route. I'd like to know the reasons for and against this idea so that I might make and educated decision. Ideally, I'd have others do the trucking. Due to my small scale, I fear that I'll have to do it myself or not at all. 

It depends on what kind of logs your hauling some are alot heavier. On my tri axle 20,000 front axle and 44's on the rear with 2,250 bd. ft. she will weigh in around 60,250 or little more. I haul white/bur oak most the time. But one thing I will tell you if you get a truck most the time your be heavy   :D. I'll look at my log pile and in my mind I'll figure out how many loads are laying there and before you know it a few more will go on the truck and then theres the trailer and before you know it theres a heavy load on it also. I never regret getting a truck moving equipment when I want to, it was worth every penny I spend on insurance and plates.

What is your empty weight, Autocar? Correct me if I'm wrong; would 2250 bd ft of white oak logs weigh around 21,000 lbs?

-lee

[jdonovan]

You need to look at what your time is worth, and is it more net profit for you, to point your customer to a trucking company to move their logs to your mill, vs you getting into the trucking business.

If your area is anything like mine, there are very bare-bone profit to be made in the hauling biz, and I would try to avoid getting into it, and would prefer to use contract haulers.

[mills]

Farm grain trucks come to mind, that are only used a few times a year but have wood box's that are in need of repair. 
Having outlived their usefulness on the farm and may even come equipped with dump gear, maybe found at farm auctions.

Beenthere's right, and the dump bed is handy for unloading small loads. Its been awhile since I weighed my truck loaded, but I think 1,200 to 1,500 bft pushed me to the limit. Like Autocar said, a lot depends on the species.
I estimate I spend around $100 per month on mine for taxes, licenses, insurance, and minor upkeep. Having your own truck available when you want it is worth quite a bit to me. I haul some loads, and contract others when I don't have the time. Owning my truck allows me to decide when.

[treeslayer2003]

yea, 2000 ft on a 6 wheeler is a jag...........we trieed that on a converted single axle tractor.......busted tires and paid fines, put a tandem in her and worked fine.

my buddy with a small mill comes out with a heavy 2 axle trailer behind a ton truck, works pretty good i bet he goes home with over 1000 ft. if i could only talk him into putting bunks on it lol.

[Autocar]

My truck empty weighs in at 15 tons even. With 2250 bd. ft. weights in at 60,000 plus according to the sawmill scales, I like to check it off and on just to keep track of my weight

[doghunter]

I have two ford f700's with a 14 foot flat dump beds they have removable log standards 4 feet high and 24 inch wooden side boards. WE use them for firewood (logs and split wood), sawdust ,lumber deliveries, hauling logs from the woods to the mill, hauling slabs and just about anything else on the farm. both are tagged for 30000 lbs we can carry about 1500 bd ft on them if you get enough weight on the front axle. 2000 feet is really pushing the limit on a 2 axle truck both legally and safety wise. Also in nc log and chip haulers on non interstate highways carry different axle weight rules than other trucks the ncfa has a publication on that.
Personnaly I would definitely go with an air brake diesel powered truck with a 5speed transmission 2 speed rear end and 11r22.5 radial tires.In my opinion this combination will yield the best service the cheapest in the long run.

[beenthere]

My truck empty weighs in at 15 tons even. With 2250 bd. ft. weights in at 60,000 plus according to the sawmill scales, I like to check it off and on just to keep track of my weight

Sounds like 2250 bdft  is weighing in at 30,000 pounds. What log scale is used to get the 2250 bdft ?

[Autocar]

Doyle

[SPD748]

Thanks so much guys!

I was calculating 7.5 lbs/bf, softwoods and 9.5 lbs/bf, hardwoods - international scale, in the log. Based on Autocar's experience hauling white oak, it's more like 13.33 lbs/bf for hardwoods.

It looks like, for a single axle truck, 1500 bf is a more realistic weight expectation. I've also considered the dual/tandem, 20k trailer option. Given the above information, that route would safely haul 1500 bf as well.

-lee

[ozarkgem]

definitely go with diesel. The mid 90's Int. with the DT 466 are good trucks. Lack a little in creature comforts but brute strong. I have a 4900 series dump truck with a 5 spd Allison(wish it was a standard) but it works good. Only has 128 k miles on it and gave 4250.00 for it. Gets almost 10 mpg hauling rock. But I don't flog it either. I had my bobcat, trailer and a load of rock on yesterday, gross 39300 lbs and pulled it fine. Lots of good trucks out there. Single axle with a trailer might be cheaper on insurance. Mine is 15.00 a month. Farm use. ;). Oh, the truck weighs 13600 empty. Trailer weights 4100. Bed is 9' long so I can haul 12' easy. I usually load the truck with 8's and the trailer with longer stuff. Best part is unloading. Just dump it.

[treeslayer2003]

Thanks so much guys!

I was calculating 7.5 lbs/bf, softwoods and 9.5 lbs/bf, hardwoods - international scale, in the log. Based on Autocar's experience hauling white oak, it's more like 13.33 lbs/bf for hardwoods.

It looks like, for a single axle truck, 1500 bf is a more realistic weight expectation. I've also considered the dual/tandem, 20k trailer option. Given the above information, that route would safely haul 1500 bf as well.

-lee

mills pay based on 12lbs and 14 lbs here.........it does vary

[Tom the Sawyer]

Lee,

If your not already USDOT certified, look into it closely before you start a trucking operation.  In addition to the equipment information listed in previous posts, USDOT and associated costs can change the viability of your plan.

[SPD748]

Thanks guys.

Ozark,

I've been looking at International 4400's with the DT466. So far, that looks like the most truck for the money. There are a few out there with 8 and 10 speed's and air brakes.

Tom,

I'm looking at trucks that are under CDL. I'm hoping to avoid most of the DOT stuff by going this route. I've asked several NC Highway Patrol Troopers who have all said a truck under 26k lbs isn't subject to as many DOT regulations as those that are over. I'm sure I could get a different answer if I go to the local DOT office. I see a truck and a way to earn a living. Surely they'll see $$$

On the note of regulations, my friend with the Highway Patrol told me that I could set up a truck with a GVWR of 26k lbs or under, then tag it for the total weight I intend on carrying... say... 32k lbs. Now, I have an A CDL license however I wouldn't need it to drive this truck. He says I'm allowed 20k lbs on the rear axle of any single axle truck and 12k lbs on the front, whether it be my Dodge 1 ton or an International 4400. I laughed and told him I have an idea of how my poor old Dodge would act with 20k on it's rear axle 

I went on to ask if the weight regulation was about safety or revenue. He had no comment  : We've had several arguments about the difference in the type of crime I investigate vs the type of crime activity he investigates ;D

** update ** I just talked to my friend (Trooper) who has corrected me. If a vehicle is registered for over 26k, it is subject to DOT requirements regardless of its GVWR. That changes things slightly...  :-\

-lee

[Tom the Sawyer]

Lee,

I'm sure that North Carolina and Kansas (we have KCC) have some variances in their regulations but most work with USDOT.   USDOT does involve vehicles less than 26,000 lbs GVWR.  They define a commercial motor vehicle as has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs or more, and which transports passengers or property for compensation or in the furtherance of commerce.  If your truck has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs or more, OR the GVWR of your truck PLUS the actual weight of trailer being towed, exceeds 10,000 lbs., you'll fall under their jurisdiction (plus a few other situations like hazmat).  If you are the only person in the truck and you're are only transporting your own property - if it is in the furtherance of commerce - they consider you a private motor carrier subject to USDOT regulations.

If you never operate interstate NC may have regulations that would apply rather than DOT.  Your profile only had NC for a location.  I pull my 4000 lb. mill with my F350 and I do operate in the KC area so I am interstate.  The F350's GVWR is 11,200 so I'm over.  Even a 3/4 ton, with the mill, would be over 10,000. 

Some states have special regulations or exemptions for logs (not Kansas, here it is for hay).  There are differing levels of interest from USDOT, more if long-haul, CDL required, etc.  The code book for USC Sec. 49 has thousands of pages of things you can do wrong, along with many that won't apply in your situation.

Here is a thread on similar information from earlier this year: https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,72871.msg1101407.html#msg1101407 

Good luck with it,

[SPD748]

I was led to believe that in North Carolina, the truck isn't subject to DOT registration until the GVWR or the registered weight exceeds 26,000 lbs. I had a landscape truck (Isuzu NPR) with a GVWR of 12,000 lbs. The DOT office turned me away when I went there to register it. I put a weighted tag on it to cover the total weight and went to work. As stated, I've asked several Troopers about the issue of registration. In fact, I asked again this morning and received the information I posted above. According to them, the only thing in NC that has 10,000 lbs attached to it, as it pertains to licensing, is a trailer. Now, if I have a truck with a GVWR of 25,990 lbs and tag it for 32,000 lbs, DOT as well as IFTA and other registrations are required. GVWR of 25,990 lbs and tagged for 26,000 lbs, no registrations other than a normal passenger vehicle. I have this information directly from those tasked with citing violators of state and federal commercial motor vehicle statutes. I don't know another source to ask. What I do know is that I want to make a sound, educated decision and avoid any fines or penalties. Given what I've confirmed at this point, the split is 26,000 lbs. whether by GVWR or by tagged weight.

Here is the law as defined in North Carolina. Other states may vary.

NCGS 20-4.01 defines a commercial motor vehicle as:

(3d)      Commercial Motor Vehicle. - Any of the following motor vehicles that are designed or used to transport passengers or property:
a.         A Class A motor vehicle that has a combined GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.
b.         A Class B motor vehicle.
c.         A Class C motor vehicle that meets either of the following descriptions:
1.         Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.
2.         Is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with 49 C.F.R. Part 172, Subpart F.

The same statute defines a Class B commercial motor vehicle as:

(2b)      Class B Motor Vehicle. - Any of the following:
a.         A single motor vehicle that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds.
b.         A combination of motor vehicles that includes as part of the combination a towing unit that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and a towed unit that has a GVWR of less than 10,001 pounds.

* there is a reason so many commercial vehicles are registered in states other than where the company is physically located...

-lee

[ozarkgem]

unless you cross state lines you won't need the IFTA. Its how the states divide up the fuel tax. Just don't cross the line. As far at DOT must be different in each state. Anything 12000 and over here is DOT. You see lots of pickups with DOT numbers on them. I do not have one on my dump truck. Farm ya know.

[SPD748]

unless you cross state lines you won't need the IFTA. Its how the states divide up the fuel tax. Just don't cross the line. As far at DOT must be different in each state. Anything 12000 and over here is DOT. You see lots of pickups with DOT numbers on them. I do not have one on my dump truck. Farm ya know.

That's the plan

It's looking like I need to find a class 6 truck (19,501 - 26,000 GVWR) that's around 12,000 lbs (or under) empty which could be registered here as non commercial and tagged for 26,000 lbs. This vehicle would carry 14,000 lbs net. Depending on how one calculates it, that's somewhere between 1000 bf and 1500 bf of logs... I think :-\

-lee

[Dave Shepard]

Have you looked into farm plates? In MA you can run a log truck on farm plates.

[SPD748]

Have you looked into farm plates? In MA you can run a log truck on farm plates.

I'm afraid my state has sewn up the farm tag route. If I'm hauling logs which I purchased from others and I intend on processing and/or selling the products processed from these logs, North Carolina requires me to run 'weighted' plates.

-lee