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4 Sided Planer

Started by ddcuning, June 09, 2014, 09:53:04 AM

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ddcuning

I have the opportunity to pick up a 4 sided Newman planer for $800. Is it worth it? I don't really need it but if it is in working order, it seems like a good deal. I am headed to go look at it on Friday. I saw pictures which looked good but need to lay my eyes on it to be sure.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

tule peak timber

What year , what power ?Newman is very good quality.....Good luck. 8)
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

redbeard

If you get serious about it see if you can run some boards through it. See if the feed rollers are in good shape. Slightly Wavy boards are a good test board.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

ddcuning

It is a belt driven unit from what I can tell. I was planning to run it off of my Cummins if I get it. Not sure what year or model. I will have to see it on Friday to find out. The guy says it weighs 10,000lb so it must be a large unit. Of course, I have went and looked at 42" oaks that were only 22" when I got there and measured so I will hold judgment until I see the unit. I have left him a message asking for the model number. Unfortunately, it is not connected to anything for me to test. The good news is, it has been under cover all of its life. He currently has it in a storage building.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Gadrock

I know someone else that could be interested...unless it is 440/3 ph

Carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

lyle niemi


Alligator

Is it a 510 or 512? I should be worth $800 in scrap iron, if it is what I think it is. Although, I would never think od scraping it. We had a Newman 510. The major difference between the 510 and 512. is the in feed rollers. 510 = 10" and 512 = 12". Ours was in a fire, the building burned down around it. Newman rebuilt it and we used it another 20 years. Do you have any pictures?
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Seaman

DD, do you do anything SMALL ?
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

ddcuning

No pictures yet, he is supposed to get the model number for me today so I can figure out what he has. I will take pictures when I get there on Friday.

Frank, big heavy stuff just seems to find me!

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

scsmith42

Dave, if it's in good shape I would suggest that you grab it.  Newman makes an outstanding production quality unit.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

ddcuning

While I was in a meeting, I got a voicemail about the planer. It is a Newman 8D model. I found pictures of one on the internet and looks beefy. Not sure it is 10k lb that he indicated but still pretty heavy.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

ddcuning

Hmmm..after a search, I could not find anything on a Newman 8D planer, I wonder if he said 8B? Either way, I can't find anything on the web about either of those two model numbers. I am sure he said 8D.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

beenthere

Hmmm.  Because it is CL, I will PM the link to you.

A few years back, an 8-B was discussed in this FF thread.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=47290.0
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ddcuning

Drove 4.5 hrs yesterday up into VA to look at the planer. It is in fact a Newman No. 8-B, four sided planer. The unfortunate thing was that it was partially disassembled which makes it tough to get back together. Apparently, the gentleman had been working to rebuild it but has health issues and must sell. The good news is it does not look hard to put back together and he had all new sprockets, bearings, drive chain and knives still in the boxes that come with the planer. It also includes attachments for making tongue and groove flooring. The planer has no rust on it and appears to have been under cover it's entire life. I wasn't looking for another project but picked it up for $700 so I could not resist. I was so excited yesterday about getting up there that I forgot my camera and I have and old dumb phone that does not take good pictures so I will have to post pictures of it when I pick it up next Saturday. Did I mention what a very understanding and patient wife I have? She has to be a saint for putting up with me always dragging big heavy stuff home to fix! Oh yea, it appears to weigh about 6000-7000lb. I doubt that it is hitting the 10k mark. It is about 4' tall and 8' long.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

SPD748

That's awesome Dave! If you figure out a way to tie that beast to your Cummins, I think you'll have more than enough power to run it. Let me know if you need any parts machined.

-lee
Frick 0 Handset - A continuing project dedicated to my Dad.

410 Deere, 240 Massey... I really need a rough terrain forklift :)

Sawing Since 1-19-2013 @ 3:30 pm
Serving Since 2002
"Some police officers give tickets, some gave all."

ddcuning

Thanks Lee, I will keep you in mind and may take you up on that. I know where I am going to set it, just have to figure out how to get the power from the Cummins to the planer. Also, I don't know what speed to run it. I have looked on the web but cannot find specs for it. I may have to contact Newman and see if the have any info. I think it will be a nice addition to the mill, I just have to figure out what to do with the edger that I just picked up. If anyone wants an edger to rebuild, come get it. I only have $100 in the gas it took to go get it. Send me a PM if interested. I would rather edge the boards on the mill and have the planer.

Dave C

We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

lyle niemi

Quote from: ddcuning on June 14, 2014, 06:41:36 AM
Thanks Lee, I will keep you in mind and may take you up on that. I know where I am going to set it, just have to figure out how to get the power from the Cummins to the planer. Also, I don't know what speed to run it. I have looked on the web but cannot find specs for it. I may have to contact Newman and see if the have any info. I think it will be a nice addition to the mill, I just have to figure out what to do with the edger that I just picked up. If anyone wants an edger to rebuild, come get it. I only have $100 in the gas it took to go get it. Send me a PM if interested. I would rather edge the boards on the mill and have the planer.

Dave C
dont think I would get rid of the edger yet, I thought the same as you, just edge on the mill. The edger saves a lot of time and is safer to run when doing second cuts....

beenthere

Dave C.
Congrats on the new project.
Here is a link to an old, but quite good machining of wood pdf that covers a variety of different variables that can affect the quality of machining hardwoods.. one of them being planer head rpm and feed rates.

Thought it might be helpful to you in figuring out some of your setup questions.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/tb1267.pdf

Appears to be typo errors but believe them to be from using a scanner to digitize the old pub and then not proof-reading the results. Similar errors in the Stan Lunstrum .pdf  of the circular sawmill pub.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Darrel

Back in the 70's and early 80's I operated a couple of Newman planers both were belt driven. One had an 8"x18" capacity and the other was 8"x24".  Both were fantastic machines and could do S4S on redwood at the feed rate of about 120' per minute as long as we kept the size no greater than a 4x8'. For larger timbers we had to slow down a bit.  You won't be disappointed.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ozarkgem

Quote from: ddcuning on June 14, 2014, 06:41:36 AM
Thanks Lee, I will keep you in mind and may take you up on that. I know where I am going to set it, just have to figure out how to get the power from the Cummins to the planer. Also, I don't know what speed to run it. I have looked on the web but cannot find specs for it. I may have to contact Newman and see if the have any info. I think it will be a nice addition to the mill, I just have to figure out what to do with the edger that I just picked up. If anyone wants an edger to rebuild, come get it. I only have $100 in the gas it took to go get it. Send me a PM if interested. I would rather edge the boards on the mill and have the planer.

Dave C
PM sent concerning the edger  thanks   jim
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

ddcuning

Below is the planer I ended up buying last Friday. I emailed the folks at Newman and they sent me all of the alignment procedures, the speed required, hp required, parts list, etc. Lots and lots of good info. With all that they sent, I will be able to set up the planer no problem.

Dave C

We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Finn1903

great score on finding that old Newman!  I need to come down and see it run, I'll bring my own material  ;)
WM LT40HDD47, bunch of saws, tractor, backhoe, and a loving wife.

Texas Ranger

Great price as well

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The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

POSTON WIDEHEAD

DanG.....what a find! Can't wait to see pics of it in action.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Darrel

Not quite what I used to operate, but still looks very familiar.  This is a very good find for the price!  Good luck with it!
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Birchwood Logging

They are a beast I have one sounds like a airplane taking off when you start it
John Deere 700H with winch, John Deere 550A with winch, Cat 232 Skid Steer,Cat 262c Skid Steer, Wood Mizer Lt 40 super HD, Ford F-700 and F-600 log trucks, Ford F-450 dump truck

SPD748

I second the motion to see this beast sling chips!!!

All in favor?

-lee
Frick 0 Handset - A continuing project dedicated to my Dad.

410 Deere, 240 Massey... I really need a rough terrain forklift :)

Sawing Since 1-19-2013 @ 3:30 pm
Serving Since 2002
"Some police officers give tickets, some gave all."

ddcuning

Of course one thing leads to another. Now I need to find a blower to suck the shavings off of the planer. The fun never ends!

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

kelLOGg

Nice score, Dave! 8)
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

whitepine2

 WOW what a whacker of a machine,that should eat up some wood.

Alligator

That's a STEAL! If you had to pay to have it rebuilt it, it would still be a steal. Where are you going to get enough lumber to run it? It will dress about a semi truck load in a 4 hour shift, depending on what you are running thru it.

That's the money machine in a sawmill operation. As long as you just have a sawmill, you can't truly produce a finished product. The planer gives you that.

By the way those attachments for tongue and groove are "side heads". If it came with shiplap side heads there may also be a profiler that gives the dished top side for lap siding that use to be common on older houses. The profiler would be a shaft with flat pully just above the out feed, the guides are seen in the picture.
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Alligator

When you get point that you need a fan / blower, look around for old cotton gins. They use the same method to move cotton seed.
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

scsmith42

Quote from: Finn1903 on June 16, 2014, 03:10:15 PM
great score on finding that old Newman!  I need to come down and see it run, I'll bring my own material  ;)

Quote from: SPD748 on June 16, 2014, 06:29:31 PM
I second the motion to see this beast sling chips!!!

All in favor?

-lee

Works for me!  Sounds like Dave is being nominated to host a FF Get-together!

Dave - better plan on a lot of HP for the dust extraction system.  My moulder is the toughest machine to evac shavings from (and that is with a 25 hp, 50" fan).
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Alligator

When you are packing up the planer, hopefully there will be 2 items that will not be very evident that they are  apart of the planer, but will be real handy when you get to the point of getting ready to run it.
1. a knife gauge - about 4" wide 3" tall and 1/2" thick I have drawn a picture if I can get it to upload.
2. head crank, looks like the old crank to start a model T. used to lock and unlock the bottom head and crank the head out to change knives
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

ddcuning

Scott, I am all for doing a FF get together at the mill when I get the planer up and running. With my schedule, that may be next year! I think Frank(Seaman) was next on the list for a get together so that will buy me some time. As soon as the planner gets here, I will start working on getting it placed but it may be winter before I do the rebuild. Will just have to see how much I get done on the list at home.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Darrel

Correct me if I'm wrong Dave but from what I see, the first head is the top, followed by the 2 side heads that are directly across from each other. In other words, they are not staggered like on most moulders.  Then the bottom head.  The belts running the side heads have a 90 degree twist in them. If they are not tracking correctly adjustment can be a bear.  It does not look to me like there are any profile heads, but not to worry, this can be done on the top and bottom for such things as hollow back.  It also looks like all four heads have 4 knives.  If the heads are jointed, and I'm sure that they are, top speed will be 75 - 100' per min.   And alligator, if there is no hand crank, one can be fabricated quite easily.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ddcuning

Darrel, you are correct, the first head is the top followed by the two side heads then the bottom. You are also correct that the belts running the side cutters have a 90 degree twist. From what I understand, they are hard to get to track correctly since the are both off of the same drum. There are four knives per head (top, bottom and sides) and the only profile knives I have are the tongue and groove for the side cutters. The literature says the feed rate is adjustable with settings of 30, 55, 75 and 100 feet per minute. Not sure about the head crank. Lots of stuff in boxes with the planer as it has been partially disassembled. I am going to take the catalog info with me and compare the drawings with the machine to make sure I have all of the parts.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Darrel

Looking forward to seeing some photos. I'm surer hey will bring back memories.  :P
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Darrel

Gotta love auto correct.  >:(
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ddcuning

Well, I made the trek yesterday to Virginia and got the Newman 8-B. At 7000 lb we were hard pressed to get it onto the trailer even with a Bobcat but we got it loaded up and brought it back to its homeland of North Carolina. Now the fun begins! I am going to off load it today. I am going to see if I can make enough room in my shop to put it in there so I can get up mornings and work on it since I have all of my tools here. It will be in the way in the woodshop but at least it will be here and easy to work on. I said I was going to put the rebuild off but now that it is hear I want to get working on it. There are two or three broken pieces of the cast iron that I need to have made out of steel as replacements but other than that, it is just replacing bearings, replace one shaft, replace two babbits and putting it back together. Easy....right?


Still on the trailer from the trip, I covered it and left it on the trailer last night.






This is all of the loose stuff that needs to be put back on the planer. Most of it is fine, nothing wrong, it looks like he was just was taking things off to gain more access to the bearings that needed replacement.








I still can't believe I was able to get this beast for $700. It is worth more than that in scrap alone and I can't find any major issues with it. Everything seems to be fine with the planer, no major damage or anything, just needs TLC, some small parts remade and a new home! My wife has already said I should clean it up and paint it like the mill. Wow that would be a lot of work! I am still wondering if I should do it though.

Dave C

We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

xlogger

Dave hurry up and get it going. I need somewhere close by to plane and t&g my cedar boards  ;D. Ricky
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: ddcuning on June 22, 2014, 06:36:02 AM
... My wife has already said I should clean it up and paint it like the mill. Wow that would be a lot of work! I am still wondering if I should do it though.

Dave C

Do it!

ddcuning

We got the planer off loaded at the mill yesterday and after thinking it over, we are not going to "restore" it and paint it. Too many parts to take off, clean, put back together etc. A restoration process I think would add a year to the time it will take for me to get it operational. As such, we have decided to clean it up, oil it to keep it from rusting and push forward with replacing the bearings and getting it back to operational status. I have also been looking for a sawdust blower for it. Procuring a blower will be the next major challenge. Looking over the planer, I think it is pretty straight forward on what needs to be replaced/repaired.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

ddcuning

Alligator,
The head crank was with the unit although the side cutters are frozen up. They move a little but not much. I expect since this was a production unit, they set the width once and it was that way the rest of its life. Looks like it ran some pretty narrow stuff based on where the vertical cutters are now currently set. No knife gauge came with it, however, I do have the alignment procedures from Newman.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Don_Papenburg

You might want to check out the farm sales in your area .  A forage blower used to fill a silo would move a lot of wood chips .
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Darrel

Heck, you could even fill a silo.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

trim4u2nv

We have cleaned up several 4 head mattisons in similar condition.  I use a wire brush on the slides and a razor blade to polish up the dovetails.  Brass brushes on the acme screws.  Soak everything that moves in atf/acetone mix and move daily until it breaks free.  Probably need a 20 HP blower to keep chips clear.  Those top and bottom heads could be converted to round safety heads fairly cheap these days with used tooling.

lyle niemi

Quote from: ddcuning on June 23, 2014, 09:51:34 AM
We got the planer off loaded at the mill yesterday and after thinking it over, we are not going to "restore" it and paint it. Too many parts to take off, clean, put back together etc. A restoration process I think would add a year to the time it will take for me to get it operational. As such, we have decided to clean it up, oil it to keep it from rusting and push forward with replacing the bearings and getting it back to operational status. I have also been looking for a sawdust blower for it. Procuring a blower will be the next major challenge. Looking over the planer, I think it is pretty straight forward on what needs to be replaced/repaired.

Dave C
I just had an actual planer man come look at my planer, he showed me a lot of stuff that would of taken me many hours to figure out on my own

ddcuning

So Lyle are you going to share the tips or keep us guessing? ;D

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Darrel

Does your planer have anything that looks like the pictures below?  If it doesn't, it should, and you will be disappointed in the quality of the work it does.


What I am referring to is the jointer?  It is more obvious in the image of the top head.  it is the machined service above the head with the stone clamp on it.  this slides back and forth while the head is running and the jointing stone just kisses the knives making them all perfectly even.  You use this so that all 4 knives are working, otherwise 1 knife will do most of the work and you won't get any speed out of the feed without having a rippled affect.  If you are using profile heads, you shape the stone to the profile.  (Yes, I'm a planerman.)  And for what ever it may be worth, I'm almost sure that these pictures are of an old Yates American.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ddcuning

Darrel, I have not seen anything like that in the loose parts. Is there any reason you cannot make a jig to align the knives?

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

backwoods sawyer

The batch of nails that just passed thru :D When a ridge shows up on the wood a quick jointing saves changing knives. (ran a 1940 "Woods" for several years before replacing with a high speed planer)
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Darrel

I've never seen a gig accurate enough and also like Backwoods said, a jointing takes out nicks in the knives left by rocks, nails etc.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ddcuning

Interesting info on the planer. I contacted Newman and gave them the serial number. They responded that my planer was built in 1951 and delivered to the Better Built Door company in Egg Harbor City, NJ. Not sure when the Better Built Door company went out of business but the building my planer was housed in burned in  2010. I found pictures of the fire on the web. Nice to know a little history on the planer.

We went to the Threshers Reunion in Denton, NC today and by chance we walked around a bend and there sat a Newman 8-B sitting on a trailer. It was the guys grandfathers and it was built in 1920. I did note several differences between his and mind in the feed system and how the belts drove the cutters.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Alligator

Sorry I missed your pictures of returning with the prize. It looks like a good foundation is there, but the guys are right you will have to have those jointers to make nice smooth lumber. There should be 3, 1 top head that stays on the machine, 1 bottom head that stays on the machine, and a side head jointer that bolts to a position usually with a dowel hole to correctly position it. You can and should build a jig to install knives, but it will not solve the jointing problem. Jointing is to get that last really fine smoothness in dressing lumber.

If you take some soot on your fingers and rub length wise a dressed board you can see the knife marks. The better the knife set, and jointing the less you see the knife marks. They never disappear when you soot them but they will to the untrained eye. For $700 you got a great deal, she is going to need a lots of TLC and a few parts.



    

I think half the people including me would give you your money back and come get it. Just have patients. Planer mills require a lots more precision and skill than a saw mill. Sawmill you can farm out the precision work but the planer has to be worked on where it's at. You can't deliver it to be fixed.

The planers I have been associated with ( Newman and Yates American) were 6 knife, and the knife gauge was similar. Start poking around for jointer parts. The top and bottom are not that complex. In looking at your parts pile I see an item that may be a top or bottom head jointer removed. (yellow arrow)

    
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Alligator

When you get time, lay some of your unknown pieces out and get pictures and post them. Maybe some of us have seen them and can identify them. Even if you have a broken piece or two they may be important in fabricating a new one. We had 3 large parts piles in the weeds. (each about 50' x 50') I got pretty good at spotting a corner or 2 or 3 holes aligned a certain way. The alternative way getting in there with the snakes and digging.
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

ddcuning

I pulled the parts out and I definitely have the top jointer and have identified it using the parts list. I do not have, nor does the parts list identify a jointer for the side cutters. Not to say that there wasn't one at some point but the parts list from Newman only lists the top and bottom jointers. I have to stop by the mill today and see if the bottom jointer is still on the planer. I did not have it in the loose parts so I am hoping it is still on the planer.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Alligator

The bottom is probably still there it would be the biggest pain to get off. It probably had a long 1/4" rod/handle that cranked the jointer stone in and out and also served to move the jointer back and forth. The side head jointer never stays on the planer any way. It is bolted on as needed, probably the reason it would be missing. The side head jointer can probably be replaced for a reasonable price.
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Darrel

The bottom head jointer is most likely mounted on the assembly that slides in and out for accessing the bottom head for changing knives, or does the out feed table drop out of the way on this machine like it does on most American made moulders?  On some units the top and bottom head used the same jointer, most often this was on moulders that had the drop down out feed table after the bottom head.  If it is now detached from the machine, the top and bottom probably share jointers.  Not being familiar with the 8-B, it is hard for me to say.  Look at the picture I posted of the side head jointer, even though this is a Yates American, it should be close enough to ID a side head jointer in your collection of parts.

Also, lots of pictures of top, bottom and side head assemblies would be most helpful.

Darrel
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Holmes

ddcuning, Alligator and Darrel  great info ,you guys are making this rebuild fun
Think like a farmer.

Darrel

To determine if your planer was set-up for a side head jointer, look at either of the side head spindles, you should see something like the illustration in my crude drawing below.


Looking down from the top, the 1/2" threaded hole is for the bolt to hold the jointer in place.  The smaller hole next to it is for a pin to keep the jointer from moving during the jointing process.  The configuration may be a little different than this but this drawing should be close enough to let you know if Newman ever intended the side heads to be jointed.  This jointer is removed while the machine is running.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Stephen1

Always great to watch a rebuild happening. Good luck
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

ddcuning

Darrel, I am traveling for work the next few days but will check it and post pictures when I get back on Friday. Thanks for all of the pointers. I contacted Newman today and they said they would not reproduce any of the old parts. If I am supposed to have a jointer for the vertical knives and don't, I am going to have to scroung for it. There is a disassembled 8-B on CL near Johnson City TN but that is a stretch for me to drive or think about being able to get just the jointer from it. Probably be a stretch to think the jointer would be with it.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Darrel

One would be pretty easy to fabricate with some basic machine shop tools.  Back in the day one of the mill wrights made one for a Paulson moulder. I showed him where I wanted to mount it on the machine first thing in the morning and I was trying it out that afternoon.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ddcuning

So I know there are a couple of people on the FF that have Newman 8-B planers. If you have one, do you have the jointer for the vertical knives and if so, can you take pictures to send to me with basic measurements so that I can have one produced? Thanks.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Alligator

Hopefully it will help explain the way a side head jointer operates. Maybe Darrel can add some dimensions. It is roughly  12" - 14" tall and 8" - 10" wide. The important part is the angle that the jointer stone sits to the side head. That is determined by a line running thru the center of the joint stone relative to the a line running thru the center of the positioning bolt and dowel. Neither shown in this picture. (2 Pages)
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Darrel

Alligator, you are about as close as I can get with demensions.  And speaking of center lines, the center line of the jointing stone needs to pass through the center of the vertical spindle.  I was looking (googling) for pictures of all this last night and found some pictures of a Newman 500 planer/matcher that showed the mounting surface for the jointer.  The lighting was pretty poor and I wouldn't have known what I was looking at if I hadn't seen it before.  I'll see if I can find a link and post it.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Alligator

If you find it, I can draw it close to dimension. (MS Visio) The drawing program I use will allow me to take one known dimension, stretch a picture to match and draw around that. When the drawing is finished it is pretty close. Attached is one I started working with, as an idea for a roomy teardrop camper. I have a little more than this, but lost interest.
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Darrel

 :( couldn't find the pic and I spent a whole lot of time looking.  But I'm sure that Dave can post a picture of the mounting surface for the jointer. 
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ddcuning


From this picture you can see what looks like a guard that someone made to keep off of this spindle.


This is the opposing spindle and you can see two bolts where something was to bolt on.


A close up of the spindle that has the homemade guard.


Here are the two spindles side by side.




This is the bottom cutter. I don't see a jointer on it. It could also have been a bolt on that is now missing.


Looking at the bottom cutter, there are several locations where something could bolt on. I assume this was where the bottom jointer bolts since I didn't see the bottom jointer.




At first, I thought this might be the jointer but after closer inspection, this appears to be a deflection shield for chips.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Darrel

What a great bunch of pictures!  I don't have time to go through them all right now and explain to you what you are looking at because I need to ger ready to go to work.  I'm looking forward to this.  I do see at least one bolt hole for a jointer and I bet I know where another one is hiding.  Good luck!  And anybody else with experience, feel free to chime in.  This is going to be one good machine by time you are finished with it Dave! 
8)
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Darrel

I will at least get started, as I have a few minutes.  In the first pic, the device you refer to as a guard is in reality someone's attempt to make a "hold down" to keep wood from jumping around as it passes the right cutting head.  I have my doubts about its efficiency.

In the second pic, the 2 bolts are for bolting on a "hold down" for the left head.  My guess is that the original hold downs are missing, this being the reason for the home made one. 

Back to the first pic, the bolt hole to the left of the pic would be for bolting on the jointer.  I would also venture a guess that if you were to swing the chip breaker out of the way you would see a matching bolt hole under it for bolting on the jointer for the left head.  The chip breaker is the device in the second pic that holds the wood against the back fence. 

More to come, if I'm not making myself clear with my explanations, please let me know.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Darrel

Look top center in the picture of the 2 spindles side by side. You will see a channel where you can bolt on a proper hold down.  You can also see this in several other pictures.

Those places where something bolts on by the bottom head look like where a bed plate section would bolt on.  If I am right, it would most likely have shims under it to get it positioned correctly in relation, not only to the bottom head but the entire machine.  The bolt holes on the out feed table are most likely for fences and the like. 

Does the bottom head slide out of the machine to one side or the other, or is the only access for knife changing from the top?
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Alligator

Have you had time to tinker any more. I was interested if you have cranked the bottom head out, or is it frozen? Darrel was asking if the came out, but I can see in the first pics you posted the lock and extraction screw. It should crank out if it isn't frozen. I have a personal relation with Newman extraction screw. Pop use to make me unlock and crank the bottom head out when I was about 12-15. Once I got a little older he had other uses for me. :)
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Darrel

Alligator, I cut my planerman teeth on that screw!  I was about 16 or 17'. It was my job to stack the stickers that were in the units of redwood that had been air drying out in the yard for a year or so.  And I had to crank that head out almost every night before I went home.  I finely told my uncle that if I was going to extract the head I was also going to change the knives.  The rest is history.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Alligator

Quote from: Darrel on July 16, 2014, 02:18:33 AM
Alligator, I cut my planerman teeth on that screw!  I was about 16 or 17'. It was my job to stack the stickers that were in the units of redwood that had been air drying out in the yard for a year or so.  And I had to crank that head out almost every night before I went home.  I finely told my uncle that if I was going to extract the head I was also going to change the knives.  The rest is history.

That is hilarious. I didn't have to do it every night, but 3 or 4 times a week. We didn't run our planer continuously. We air dried everything, so from early spring until late summer, when I was out of or after school it was my one of jobs. I was also the sticker guy. Before we got the unstacker, we had 2 roller beads about 16" of the ground that I had to step over to collect the sticks and put them in the rack. By the end of the summer my shins were purple from top to bottom. I also had to keep a 4x4x6 on the roller bed for the next pack. Funny how the same grunt work falls to the young guy in a sawmill everywhere. When we got the Unstacker I wanted to throw a party,until I realized how quick another layer of sticks fell. You were lucky, your insistence on changing knives propelled you on to be a planer mill man. I was always kept away from the running machinery until I was 18. There was always work though. I spent most summers on a tractor bush hogging the lumber drying yard, so the bottom layers would dry evenly.. That was about 30, half mile rows of stacked lumber.
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Darrel

I didn't get to touch the planer while it was running until I was 18 either, it wasn't too long after I started changing the bottom knives that I started changing the top head too.  My uncle just sat on one of the side head guards while he changed the top knives, but it didn't take me to long to figure out that sitting up there was much more comfortable if put a piece of 2X12 across the void between the side heads and sat on it.

And I know all about those banged up shins too!
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ddcuning

It has been a rough week at work, working late most nights and garden is coming in so I have been canning green beans and dill pickles so I have not gotten over to the mill this week. With regards to the bottom head, no I have not tried to crank it out. In fact, I don't remember if there is the ability too. The only cranks that I saw were on the side cutters but I will check again. I am still working on issues with the sawmill itself and my attention is currently focused on that. As soon as I get the mill fixed with the new shaft and bearings, I will turn my attention back to the planer. First task on the planer will be to pour the new Babbitt bearing in the lower drive shaft. I have the new shaft but the bearing material is currently deformed. I have the new Babbitt material, some dam putty, a ladle and just got my welding gas bottles filled so I am set for doing the bearing. Now just need the experience to pour it. Good news is, if I mess it up, I can just heat it back out and re-do it.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Alligator

I could be wrong, but the two square ended cranks should be the bottom head lock and extractor screw. Don't know which is which.

This is a busy time of year. The veggies won't wait. The planer will be a long term project anyway. You have the foundation, take your time and get it right. Just looking at the pictures, it will take a pretty good amount of work to get her rebuilt. Don't get discouraged.

Things take so much of your time. I am in the middle of re tinning a 60'x60' pole barn/shop my father built 20 years ago. He put used tin and half-a$$ed the 12'x60' shed on each side. I started out assuming that he used a tape measure, WRONG. The trusses are set 11'8"-11'10"-12'4"-11"6"-12'3". That is in order back to front. The 12'4" in the middle really p-s me off. That's about 30 pieces of 14' 2x6s I'm going to have to cut 20" off of. But, he's gone so I can't fuss can't him. Just smile and think about the good times.

Alligator
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

ddcuning

Its been forever since I posted about the planer and since staring this thread, I ended up buying another Newman 8B that has already been refurbished so I now have 2. Not sure what I will do with the first one I bought but there you are. My goal is to get both planer and sawmill fully complete this year and I am getting back in the groove of things. The past few months I have been searching for a fan for the planer and this week I hit pay dirt. Didn't need two but when they are free, you take them. Both have really good bearings and seem to be in very good shape. I will use one for the planer and store the other one until I can figure out what to do with it.

Dave C

We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Darrel

From the look of it, you could take sawdust away from your mill and shavings from the planer all at the same time with just one of those. Great find!
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

ddcuning

Could be Darrel. I am going to look up the capacity of these but I think either will do about anything you want. Even the ductwork connection on the suction is 10gauge steel. I will post some capacities once I find out for sure. I will also get a picture of the other Newman 8B that I picked up this winter.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

Alligator

Just guessing from the size of those fans, if you put enough motor on them they will suck your house off the foundation and blow it into the next county. Two 8bs is not a bad thing. Now you have a parts machine. If they are twins you will find things that will be needed frequently. The sidehead assemblies on our 510 were the same. When you have some free time between rebuilding the carriage, setting it up and checking the heating problem, getting the good planer working, and remodeling the house, between 12 am and 6 am you could rebuild one of the sidehead assemblies.  :) :) Find you a big old used tarp and set it somewhere out of the way you'll need something  off of it eventually. There is absolutely nothing better than a duplicate machine for spare parts.
Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

Alligator

I found this Newman M510 with a picture of the side heads that show the jointer mounting holes. Also a good shot of how the shaving cowlings attach and swing out. There are some good closeups of this planer. I know it's not the same one, but without a manual, the same manufacturer does the same things in successive machines and change things as well.
http://www.lumbermenonline.com/for-sale/Newman-M510-Planer?itemid=20664

Esterer Sash Gang is a  Money Machine

lyle niemi

I will be doing a bunch of planning this year so I tore into my alco planer to fix a few problems. I have a way better understanding of how things work now. The machine should be up and running by next week if all goes well

ddcuning

Ended up getting the fan curve from Buffalo, looks like at 25hp the fan will do 5,800 CFM, and 18" of static at the speed my engine is running! That will suck some shavings off of the planer! With a slight adjustment in the sheave, I can get 9,000 CFM at 11" of static. Either way, I can get a lot of air and a lot of static out of these fans using only 25hp off of the engine. I think one fan is going to do everything that I need. I will tuck the other fan away for possible future bartering or some other future process if needed.

Dave C
We're debt free!!! - Dave C, Nov 2015

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