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help! circle mill cable guide

Started by sjh, July 04, 2004, 08:34:07 PM

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sjh

I am finely getting ready to fire up the old frick, but I can not figure out the proper way to get the cable wond. I think it goes from the carrage-around the pulley-around the drum then reverse back to the carrage. Can ony one tell me the proper setup?
Pictures will be coming soon. I like seeing them too.

Ron Wenrich

Normally, there are 2 cables coming from the drum to the carriage.  One goes to the front end of the carriage, and one goes to the back end.  You want 2 or 3 wraps more cable then the length required.

It shoud go from the drum, through the pulley to the front of the carriage when the carriage is at the back of the mill.  There will be tons of wraps in that position.  2 wraps, to the front pulley, to the back of the carriage, when the mill is at the back of the mill.  (I think I got that right).

Your stick operation should be to pull back to make the carriage travel front, and push back to return the carriage.  Its a safety thing.  I graduated from a handmill to an automatic and kept those movements as part of the tradition of circle mills.

If you have problems., put up pics and we can help you figure it out.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

I just went through a hassle with my Corley's cable not too long ago and what Ron says sounds right.  It was kind of a pain in the butt to get it all wound back up and working right.  Then after it was on and seemed right after cycling the carriage a few times it came unwound after the slab cut on the first log I sawed ::) ::)  Now we got it and several thousand feet later it's still on.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Ron Wenrich

You need a pulley on the front there, boss.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

Not on mine.First cable anchors on the drive drum goes down to the far end, around the pulley then back to the opposite side of the carriage. Second cable goes directly from the drive drum to the the Other, other end of the carriage. :)  While one cable is wrapping, the other is unwrapping. There should always be at least 3 wraps left on a cable at the end of the carriage travel for that direction.

My drum is mounted at the END of the track. You only need another pulley if your drive is in the center of travel.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

Which is exactly what the old Fricks had.   :)
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

woodhaven

My cable drum is in the center too. Runs off the gearing at the husk. Pulleys are at each end of track. Never seen it done the other way. Of course there are a whole lot of things I ain't seen.
Richard

woodhaven

I Think I Am Going To Faint!!!!!!!!
Finally some circular mill talk!!!!!!!!
Richard

sawhead

You can use one piece of cable if your drum is in the center of the track . Make three or four wraps around the drum , let both ends come over the top ,  that will make one end go toward the back of the carriage and the other will be toward the front , then run them thru the cable pulleys and hook to carriage making sure  that the cable that goes thru the back pulley  hooks on the front of the carriage ,and the cable that goes thru the front pulley hooks on the back of the carriage. This will keep the same amount of wraps on the drum at all times , they will just be on differant side's of the drum depending on which end of the track you are at.
The journey of a thousand miles begins
with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire

D._Frederick

Sawhead,

That was the way our American mill was cabled, there was threaded eye bolts on each end of the carriage that the cable was connected to. This system worked well and there was never any problems.

woodhaven

Yep,
Thats the way mine has been sense I built it 18 years ago. I have never had a problem.
Richard

Sawyerfortyish

Jeff's got one of them there new fangled drives. I can see that. I run a Frick #1 and sawhead explained it about the best way that you can without pictures. I will add that if you wind the cable the wrong direction on the drum it will try to walk on itself when you move the carrige. It is directional and must be wound the right direction. I look at the drum in frount of me every day and can't for life of me tell you how it is. But I replaced the cable one time and wound it bass ackwards and it will try to walk on itself.

sawhead

On the mill I saw on for a real living :D it works like jeffs , its a Berry 240  drive with the drum at the end of the track  but on it , one cable end is on top of the drum and the other end under the drum with only one  cable sheave  at the other end of the track, the drum acts as a the second cable sheave.My little homemade hobby corley mill wraps as previously described.
The journey of a thousand miles begins
with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire

smwwoody

Mine4 wraps like sawhead says.  one piece of cable but they both anchor to the center of the carriage with turnbuckles.  it makes it real easy to get every thing wraped then take up the slack.

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
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Sawyerfortyish

I have a berry drive on my Frick but I think it's a 218.

Frickman

I second Woodhaven, finally a circle mill! And a Frick too! One thing to remember when purchasing and installing a cable is to make it as long as possible. It may take some trial and error, but put as many wraps as possible on the drum. My Frick 01 has nine. There is one unused groove on each end when the carriage is run out either way.

There are two benefits with this. The first, and most obvious, is that the more wraps you have, the less likely you will have slippage. The second benefit will become apparent after you get some hours on the cable. Unless you have bad accident, most of the time a cable breaks it will be at the end where it passes through the eyebolt. This is because of the sharp bend the cable has at this point. When this happens simply take one or two wraps off the drum and reattach it to the eyebolt. Doing this can help extend the useful life of your cable.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Ron Wenrich

We use 2 cables on our drum.  We used to have a big problem with breakage.  Went over to the coated cable and that pretty well solved the problem.  Its now a rarity to have it break.

Coated cable is expensive, but well worth it.  If I was running a hobby mill, I probably wouldn't go to that expense.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Tom


Ron Wenrich

Some sort of plastic.  I believe it "soaks" into the whole cable.  We were breaking cables about once a month, now maybe once a year.  For us, its usually the rear cable.  I've broken the front one maybe twice in 6 years.

We even went to coated cable on our laser lights.  This is a pretty small cable tht runs through several pulleys.  It tells me where my vertical edgers saws are at.  We went from a monthly event to a yearly event on those, as well.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Tom

Oh!  That sounds like the plastic coated cable that is used for steering cables on outboard engines down here.  Yours is probably a lot larger.  I think most of this is 3/16's plus the coating.

Frickman

Ron,

Two questions about using the coated cables. Does the coating cause the cable to slip on the drum, and does it get soft in the summer?
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

woodhaven

I am sure it is not a fair test cause I don't run my mill like you guys do. Maybe 1 or 2 months a year. My cable was given to me to try when I was building the mill almost 18 years ago and it has been there ever sense. It came off a elevator in a commerical building. I guess elevator cables have to meet rigid standards. Its 5/8" and never shown any deteration or rust or anything it still looks just as healthy as the day I installed it.
Richard

Ron Wenrich

As long as your cables are tight, I wouldn't see how they could slip.  But, I'm running a 2 cable system, not a single.

It doesn't get soft either.  The coating is starting to come off in places, but there isn't any fraying.  I get mine from Kline's Mill Supply over in Pennsburg, PA.  I'm sure you can get it from any good supply shop.  Do you deal with Reckart's?

Buzz

Most automatic mills have some sort of hydraulics to power their carriage.  The Berry feed that these guys have is basically a hydraulic power pack.  

I'm running a 49 GPM Sunstrand motor.  It has variable speed, and brakes.  I need to have it rebuilt every 18 months.

I've also seen a shotgun feed.  That's where they use a hydraulic cylinder to push/pull the carriage.  I saw one on a Filer & Stowell carriage out in St Louis.  The carriage must have been 8' wide.  Real impressive, but too much mill for what they were milling.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Frickman

Ron,
Kline's used to run a small store in Somerset County, one County east of me. It's where I got the cable I'm running now, along with a lot of other parts. They had a truck that would stop by the mill every two weeks too. Reckhart's have a store also in Somerset. I've dealt there from time to time also. They're a good source for logging equipment parts as well.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

mitch

I posted a scanned image of
"Instructions for Attaching cable to Mill" from an old Frick instruction sheet. The image is at

http://shagbarkfarms.com/Forums/FrickCable1.jpg

Jeff

I am never ceased but to be amazed...
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

sawhead

On the berry feedworks we are running ,it also uses  2 cables and we also run the coated cable , it's called PFV flex7 which means its plastic filled valley flexiable 7core cable ,it is " supposed " to self lubricate and keep the wires from touching and wearing as fast , don't know about that but it does outlast regular cable by a long way.
Can't say how many GPM the motor on the 240 Berry is but it uses a 100 hp motor to turn the pump.
Those shotgun feedworks like Ron mentioned are very smooth feeds have seen 2 of them running, both on hardwood mills smooth and QUICK . The 2 I saw were berry 285's they had a cylinder at each of the carriage one pulled the carriage towards the saw the other pulled it back,took me al ittle while to realize they did this so that they could push the oil in the cylinder rod end so it would be faster (DuHHH :-[ )
The journey of a thousand miles begins
with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire

smwwoody

I have a hydraulic motor direct coupled to my cable drum
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

jdunmyer

My 1-piece cable is wrapped around the center-mounted drum a half-dozen or so turns. The ends go around sheaves at the ends of the track and back to the front of the carriage, attached with a turnbuckle for adjustment.

The cable drum is driven with a small CharLynn hydraulic motor that I picked up someplace, powered by an old John Deere 450 bulldozer pump that's coupled to a 15Hp electric motor. It took a bit of experimentation to get the chain ratio correct between the motor and pinion shaft, my first trial ran the carriage too fast and w/o enough power.

Control of the motor is via a standard 4-way valve with an extended handle. However, it was light-switch operation at first, the carriage was either moving at full speed or stopped, and very jerky. I removed the valve spool and beveled the edges of the lands with a grinder to get a bit of "leakage" as soon as the lever moves a bit. It took 2 tries, grinding just a tiny bit each time (and cleaning THOROUGHLY) to get it right. The only disadvantage is that the gig-back is at the same speed as the max forward speed, not the usual 2X or 3X. It works well, however, and I'm quite happy with it for my operation.

Oh! I also have 2 pressure-relief valves mounted near the motor to absorb any shocks and prevent over-pressuring the motor. I think they're set at about 1000 PSI.

smwwoody

jdunmyer
I had the same problem when I first set mine up the I set it up to run about 2 times faster than I wanted it.  once I had it running like that I installed a flow controll on the forward side and limited it to run where I wanted it and then I got a fast gig back this way

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

jdunmyer

As I said, I had to adjust the ratio not only for the desired speed, but to get enough torque to pull the carriage. It's actually pretty good overall, as my off-bearer needs time to take care of the slabs and boards anyway. Don't want to kill him, or I'll be working alone. :'(

There's pics on my website of the drive, that motor is quite small. Although I don't remember the specs, IIRC it calculated out to about 7 Hp at max pressure/flow.

Tim

My cable drum is mounted n the centre of the mills with two cables. Even with the drum covered to prevent debris from building up in the grooves, it still needs cleaning frequently. I like the idea of mounting the cable drum on an end, less debris on it, one less pully... that type of stuff.

When I first bought my mill it had a friction drive on it. The noise and amount of wear on and of it just about drove me to a point of being certifiably nuts. I switch the system to hydraulic. I blew out two gear reducers (they were far too small) before I switched it to a double reduction chain drive.

I did the flow control thing for the carriage advance as well. I have considerably more speed on the return. I like it that way, as I don't have a turner or hydraulic dogs on my mill. There is a motor spool in the DCV and a little tap and hold on the lever brings it back on a coast to where I want the carriage for either loading or turning.

There is a mill near here that uses the shotgun drive but, are using air to power it. They won't let you in there with cameras anymore so I can't get you fine folks any pictures.
Eastern White Cedar Shingles

Ron Wenrich

My speed forward is the same as backward.  I don't have any problem with the feed, since its a variable speed.  If I recall, my Jacksons ran the same way, with less sophisticated hydraulics.  

Even when I ran belt driven Fricks, I never pulled the handle all the way back for feed.  I have always adjusted the feed to the sound of the saw.  If it dies down, ease up.  Feed faster if it can take it.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

QuoteThey won't let you in there with cameras anymore so I can't get you fine folks any pictures.

Top secret eh?  Sounds like a challenge to me. :)  I swear, some places really think they are all that when they aint ****


 ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tim

Its a Commonwealth mill across the river from Rolphton. About ten years ago there were a bunch of Japanese in there with cameras... they took the technology in that mill and started building their own apparently, pantents be damned.

They refitted the mill 2 years ago and it is suppose to be one of the most advanced on the continent now. they are pshing almost a quater million feet a shift through the two lines in the mill.
Eastern White Cedar Shingles

dail_h

   You can get fired from  gp quicker for having a camera on premis than having a gun
   The first pine mill that I worked at had steam shotguns on both mills,on of the local mills here still use a steam gun ,some kool exaust
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
      Volume Discount At ER
Singing The Song Of Circle Again

Jeff

I have been in a couple strand board plants with a camera. The only off limits were the control rooms.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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