What would be the best handsaw for cutting beams and posts?

LaneC · May 28, 2014, 10:30:47 PM

If one were to have only 1 hand saw to cut post and beams, what type and teeth per inch is mostly used, or considered the best. I am wondering about the saws that would be cutting from 4x4's up to 12x12's. Any suggestions or opinions are appreciated.

purple otter · May 29, 2014, 08:43:20 PM

The best thing would be to have both a rip and crosscut saw. I use an old Disston D-8 with 3 1/2 tpi to rip, and a Disston D-8 7 tpi for crosscut. Around here you can get these old saws for around $5 sometimes at flea markets or estate sales. If you learn how to properly sharpen them you will always have sharp saws and they will last you a long time. You will be amazed when you rip a tenon with a proper rip saw.

LaneC · May 29, 2014, 10:43:41 PM

Thanks so much for the reply. That is just what I looking for. I truly appreciate the input. I guess they probably do not make them like they used to. I have looked on ebay and I have only found one with 5-1/2 tpi(teeth per inch). I will try and keep looking. Thanks again for the info, it was very helpful.

Jim_Rogers · May 30, 2014, 08:47:43 AM

If you do a search here on the forum you may/should find a story about the saw recommended by Jack Sobon, and we agree with him on this saw.

However, I recently was shown a new "timber" saw at a timber framing school in VT.

So, I went online, and found it available on Amazon and with shipping it was about $28.

I have received it, and I have tested it. It does cut both rip and cross cut very aggressively. And it states that you can file it to resharpen it. And it lists the file number you can buy from them for it.

It is made in Sweden.

Jim Rogers
PS. I hope to do a video of it sometime.

LaneC · May 30, 2014, 09:09:12 AM

Thanks for the reply. That seems a very good price. I will check that out ASAP. The ones on ebay are more than that with shipping. I have a 4 tpi and a 7 tpi picked out. They are the Disstons and have been recommended as well but a new saw at that price is good. I surely appreciate the input from all and would like to see the video.

Dan Miller · May 30, 2014, 05:37:16 PM

I am also in the two saw camp. I use a vintage Disston 5-1/2 TPI thumbhole rip, and for crosscuts a Stanley Sharptooth 28" saw. The latter is the one Jack Sobon was recommended to students. The Stanley should be readily available at big box stores or better hardware stores; probably Amazon too.

Dan

LaneC · May 31, 2014, 12:37:15 AM

I think if I am able, I will be joining the Disston saw family. I will get 1ea. 3-1/2 to 4 tpi and 1ea.7 or 8 tpi. The file for the profcut saw is almost $70.00 unless I am reading it wrong. For those interested it is file no. 272. What size file would one need for the Disstons? Would 1 triangular file do it or 2 different sizes?

Brian_Weekley · May 31, 2014, 08:19:05 AM

If you're planning to sharpen your own saws, you will also need a jointer, tooth set, files, and saw vise. I use old Diston rip saws and it's fairly easy to sharpen a rip saw. However, I like the new Stanley Sharptooth 28 for cross cutting. These have a very different tooth design than the old Diston crosscut saws. They cut like going through butter. However, you can't resharpen them easily and generally consider them disposable saws.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

Dave Shepard · May 31, 2014, 09:50:33 AM

I use the Sharptooth for almost everything, although I'm looking to sharpen a few old handsaws I have. I have all the tools, just haven't tried it yet. A friend of mine says that a properly sharpened saw will out cut a Sharptooth. I also have a few Ryoba saws, they rip very well.

Chilterns · May 31, 2014, 12:28:17 PM

Hi Jim,

Could you please post a close up photo of the tooth pattern of the Bahco Profcut Timber saw and also advise the TPI. This looks like a good candidate for rough work.

Chilterns

PC-Urban-Sawyer · May 31, 2014, 02:36:58 PM

Quote from: LaneC on May 31, 2014, 12:37:15 AM
I think if I am able, I will be joining the Disston saw family. I will get 1ea. 3-1/2 to 4 tpi and 1ea.7 or 8 tpi. The file for the profcut saw is almost $70.00 unless I am reading it wrong. For those interested it is file no. 272. What size file would one need for the Disstons? Would 1 triangular file do it or 2 different sizes?

That's the price for ten of the 272 files. Apparently they are only sold in packages of 10. Too bad we can't get a few people to go in on getting a ten pack and splitting them up. Course the shipping would get to be a bit much...

Herb

Jim_Rogers · May 31, 2014, 05:54:24 PM

Quote from: Chilterns on May 31, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
Hi Jim,

Could you please post a close up photo of the tooth pattern of the Bahco Profcut Timber saw and also advise the TPI. This looks like a good candidate for rough work.

Chilterns

Here you go:

I don't know if you'd call that 4 or 4 1/2 teeth per inch.

Jim Rogers

Dave Shepard · May 31, 2014, 06:02:37 PM

4 tpi, or 4 1/2 ppi, perhaps?

LaneC · May 31, 2014, 10:55:53 PM

Thanks Brian weekly, you answered a question for me. The folks at a local big box store could not answer the question I had for them, as to the ability to sharpen these new saws. I now see they are basically disposable. That I do not care for. I bet they will cut good for a while though, but if I hit a couple of nails or something then you would have to get another saw. I saw that "10 pack" on the file description, but re-read and looked at the quantity which I thought said 1ea. however I guess they mean 1ea. package of 10. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have yet to see a video of anyone sharpening that profcut. I am guessing it will be quite different than sharpening an old saw blade. Thanks for all of the input and recommendations. I appreciate it a lot.

LaneC · May 31, 2014, 11:44:05 PM

Thanks for posting the sharpening treatise also. Very informative, thanks.

Chilterns · June 01, 2014, 03:09:36 AM

Actually that might be 3.5 TPI. There are 7 complete teeth between the 1" and 3" mark (you don't count the first tooth on the 1" mark).

I have some old blunt 7-8 TPI Sandvik saws that are made from sharpenable i.e. not flame hardened steel and so I wonder If I could simply recut these to match the above tooth pattern by filing out every alternate tooth to make a deeper gullet ?

Chilterns

MattJ · June 03, 2014, 12:12:15 PM

If you search around for the files with the bahco part number on google you can find sellers selling individual files. eBay had a listing for 29.99 for the file in handle with free shipping. Granted that's the price of the saw but it makes it reusable.

Matt

LaneC · June 03, 2014, 09:55:27 PM

Thanks for the ebay tip. Has anyone seen a video or seen any procedures or examples of anyone using this kind of file on these new type teeth?

Dan Miller · June 04, 2014, 04:40:36 PM

Quote from: LaneC on May 31, 2014, 10:55:53 PM
I now see they are basically disposable. That I do not care for. I bet they will cut good for a while though, but if I hit a couple of nails or something then you would have to get another saw.

Mine get cycled through a pattern of demotion - when too dull for timber framing, they get used in risky situations (like disassembling old boats, where fasteners are a risk), then relegated to being loaners for neighbors so they don't trash the good ones, finally, they are broken up into card scrapers.

I suppose the dull ones could be offered up to the saw painters, maybe in exchange for an old Disston or the like.

Dave Shepard · June 04, 2014, 05:37:04 PM

I've been saving my old Sharptooth saws. I want to take them to a saw shop and have them nibble new conventional teeth on them. I've even found a saw shop with a saw nibbler, just haven't gotten to it yet.

LaneC · June 04, 2014, 10:16:24 PM

Hello all. Dan miller, what is a card scraper? If you get these new type of teeth nibbled in will they be able to be re-sharpened? Most of the new ones, they are saying, are basically disposable. I have yet to see any videos or instructions on sharpening the fileable "new" saws.

Brian_Weekley · June 05, 2014, 08:35:23 AM

The "newer" saws like the Stanley Sharptooth and the Bahco Timber Saw use a three-sided sharpened tooth design. Unlike a "traditional" Disston type saw that only cuts on the push stroke, the three-sided sharpened teeth allow the saw to cut on the pull stroke also. These saws are manufactured and micro sharpened by machines. However, the tooth design makes them much more complex to re-sharpen by hand (I'm guessing because I've never tried to sharpen this type of saw because I wouldn't know how to). Some people like the Japanese saws that only cut on the pull stroke, but I don't know how to sharpen this kind of saw either. Therefore, if you want to sharpen your own saws, go with the Disston--they're great saws and fairly straight forward to sharpen if you have the proper file, toothset, etc. Otherwise, you can probably cut an entire frame with a "new" saw. They're not that expensive so don't feel bad if you throw it away when your frame is done.

Dave Shepard · June 05, 2014, 09:53:50 AM

Quote from: LaneC on June 04, 2014, 10:16:24 PM
Hello all. Dan miller, what is a card scraper? If you get these new type of teeth nibbled in will they be able to be re-sharpened? Most of the new ones, they are saying, are basically disposable. I have yet to see any videos or instructions on sharpening the fileable "new" saws.

It is my hope that if I had these saws retoothed that they could be sharpened. The Sharptooth has the 3 edeged tooth design as Brian mentioned, and are not really made to be sharpened. They have a hardened tooth, which may be too hard for a file, and also they have 312 teeth, so I think that would take a while. :D Retoothing will cut the saw plate back behind the hardened part of the saw, so I should be able to file it.

TW · June 07, 2014, 08:58:45 PM

For crosscutting I use an old 28inch Disston number 7 of the old wide bladed variety. It has 4 1/2 teeth per inch and the same tooth type as the Sandvik beam saws. I like it a lot. It costed me half an euro at a farm auction. When it gets dull I resharpen it using a saw file with a diamond shaped section filing one side of a tooth at a time.
That type of saw teeth isn't new. It has been used by Scandinavian carpenters for at least 150 years. I suppose someone altered the tooth shape of my saw a century ago when it got here from America.

Personally I find a long an wide saw blade to be a great advantage for this kind of use. I have tried one of those Sandvik beam saws but as it was only 24" long the saw strokes had to be very short and the narrow blade flexed a bit too much for my taste.

D L Bahler · June 08, 2014, 02:48:00 PM

I used to use disston saws, I have a few of them. But, now I use stanley saws for just about everything, because I have found them for me to be the best balance of speed and precision.

For big cuts, I use an old frame (buck) saw finding it to be a good method of cutting timbers to length.

But you have to add to this, I don't use saws as much as some might, and I don't like sawing. Also I don't like to sharpen saws.

LaneC · June 08, 2014, 04:41:11 PM

Thanks for all the input and advice. I think that after all the advice given I would go with the Disstons. I like the idea of not being disposable and the possibility of sharpening them. I know now, they have been around a long time and usually when that can be said, there are good reasons for them to stay around that long. I certainly appreciate the input from each and everyone. Thanks again for some valuable lessons.

shinnlinger · June 08, 2014, 10:13:45 PM

this is what I do...
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,34391.msg501798.html#msg501798

LaneC · June 09, 2014, 09:14:32 AM

Thanks shinnlinger. That is an awesome modification. Very simple and I am sure very efficient. Thanks for sharing that. That looks like the way to go.

Dan Miller · June 09, 2014, 08:19:19 PM

Quote from: LaneC on June 04, 2014, 10:16:24 PM
Hello all. Dan miller, what is a card scraper?

Hello, sorry for the slow reply. I check in here every few days or so.

Card scraper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_scraper

Maybe not so useful in timber framing (though I would not hesitate to use one on hardwood timbers), but I also build boats, musical instruments and furniture. Use a card scraper when you can, sandpaper only when you must.

Dan

LaneC · June 09, 2014, 11:13:17 PM

Thanks Dan. I was thinking it was a home made something/ doo dad :D Thanks for the lesson, I have never heard of those.

addicted · June 11, 2014, 10:48:35 PM

Jim
Stock for bahco must have shot up after your post about the timber saw. The saw on amazon is now going for $67. The power of the Internet .
Rusty

Jim_Rogers · June 12, 2014, 02:04:36 AM

The company that I got it through from Amazon must be sold out right now.

Jim Rogers

Jim_Rogers · June 12, 2014, 02:19:02 AM

I did some searching and found the model number, it is PC-24-tim.

I think you can order it from different Bahco suppliers.

I can't seem to find one available online right now.

They must be popular and sold out.

Jim Rogers

addicted · June 27, 2014, 10:34:49 PM

The Bahco Timber saw just arrived in the mail. So far it has worked very well. Cuts just as fast if not faster than the sharp tooth, the thicker metal seems a bit more stiff, and for me it's easier to hold the line. On the down side, the handle seems cheap and it's length is 24 inches. I'm 6'2" and like the length of the sharp tooths 26". When you're cutting through anything with some depth, getting into a good rhythm with long strokes gets you through the timber in no time. With a 24" saw I tend to get the tip stuck in the groove from pulling back too far. I'll be interested to see how well it holds up.

Rusty