Should finally be sawing soon! and a couple questions.

etroup10 · May 28, 2014, 09:52:08 PM

I work at a wood shaving's business and my boss has been wanting to get the oversize logs broken down and also cut up some of the nice logs that come in. We were going to wait till I got a mill but the opportunity came about that we might be able to rent out a fully hydraulic lt40, not sure on the year or if it is a super hydraulic. The owner does not have time to run it so we are trying to work out a deal where we pay him per board foot. What we plan on doing is cutting any of the clear logs into boards and the other nice logs we will cut into beams for log houses(where my boss is also a manager so we have basically a guaranteed sale). The logs I will cut will range from 16" to 30", 16' long and nice and straight. The beams will be 6"x12" and 8"x12" and I will only be making 4 cuts. The large slabs that come off these logs will be turned into shavings. Right now we are getting about 2 semi loads a week of logs that will be nice enough for the beams.

I also have a couple questions now. The owner said it would take about 20 minutes to turn one of these logs into a beam when making just 4 cuts. It seems like it should go a lot quicker than that with a fully hydraulic mill. So I wanted to hear from those who had a hydraulic lt40 on how long it would take to mill these out? I should mention I will have access to a good sized skid loader and a cat wheel loader so log handling won't be an issue. I also wanted to know if it would be possible to rotate the logs so that the slab falls off over the back stops? or would the wheel be in the way? The mill has a drag back system but I was thinking I would use that for cants.

I also had a few questions on breaking down the oversize logs. The max size we can shave is 28" and we have several thousand board feet of logs too large to shave. We just want to break these down into quarters or thirds. With these logs the quality of the cut will not be important. Since it won't matter about a wavy cut, does that mean I can cut faster? Does that also mean I can keep a blade on longer? Or will that result in breaking more blades? Also, since we are hoping to do everything by the board foot, how would you charge for breaking down logs?

Thanks, Eric

backwoods sawyer · May 28, 2014, 10:16:56 PM

Take the slabs off the loading arm side, less to get damaged. There is room and time for slab and log hadling on the same side.

Curious, seems the hour meter would be a more practical rental method.

Skipping saw changes will affect the longevity of the band when it comes resharpening. Sounds like you plan to make a lot of deep wide cuts, sharp has less pull on the moter as well as allowing faster feed speeds. Dull is a time waister.

Delawhere Jack · May 28, 2014, 10:20:30 PM

Sounds like you might be better off "renting" a sawyer along with the mill. ;)

Cutting up logs on a WM is not difficult. Cutting them properly takes some practice. There is a learning curve involved.

I understand the concept of how a semi truck works, but I wouldn't dream of jumping in the cab and trying to operate transmission on one of them without some detailed guidance.

shinnlinger · May 28, 2014, 10:25:41 PM

I would think a big splitter would be a better way to break logs down for shavings. I would not run dull bsnds. Heartwood school used to have a one week course which included lt 40 training. Might be a good investment?

beenthere · May 28, 2014, 10:37:40 PM

etroup10
No mention (that I read) of the species you are going to slab four sides for a beam.
Or since it is a shavings operation, maybe all white pine? or not?

Brad_S. · May 28, 2014, 10:39:23 PM

Taking large amounts of wood off any given side creates stress. I doubt you will get nice straight beams with just 4 passes. I would plan on taking the large slabs off in 4 cuts but leave your cant oversized, then make 4 more light cuts to straighten it out nicely. Given the material handling, 20 minutes may not be unreasonable as a guesstimate but you will probably be able to cut that time down.

I have a different brand of mill so I am not 100% positive a WM is the same but it is possible to dump the slab while turning the log. The wheel may or may not cause issues. You could fabricate some sort of deflector or incline system no doubt.

Google black powder log splitting to see how to break large logs down quickly!

shinnlinger · May 28, 2014, 10:40:42 PM

To your point of 20 minutes per log to make a beam. Are the logs lined up on a deck ready to roll on the mill? Are they really round and straight ? Are you centering the pith? Debarking or more frequent band changes? Are you taking boards to make it a certain dimension or making big slabs that are more difficult to handle? Are you ensuring its square? Is there any foreign objects in the wood waiting to wreck your band? Is someone else hauling the slabs and beams away so you can keep the band in the wood? All these questions and more will effect speed but i would suggest you focus on quality first. Speed will come.

etroup10 · May 28, 2014, 10:53:44 PM

Thanks for the replies. That is what I was thinking in regards to blades but wanted to check if there was benefits when you don't have to worry about cut quality. I imagine the owner will show me the ropes initially and I usually catch on pretty quick. Plus it will be good learning experience and I will be able to see if I enjoy sawing and want to invest in a sawmill for myself. My boss originally was looking at large screw type splitter for the skid loader but he didn't think it would end up working. It might be because most of the logs we need to break down are big and have many large knots which might make it tough for a splitter.

It will all be eastern white pine that I will be sawing. The logs I will be sawing into beams are beautiful. Straight as an arrow, centered pith, forest grown. I think most of them should be mostly stress free but that may be hard to tell. There should be no issue with metal. We don't find very much metal at all with shavers and we run probably 8-10mbf a day and started running 6 days a week(I work 4-12 hour days). We would have to buy a lot of black powder! And we usually get a couple oversize logs a week.

I'm not sure if the mill has the debarker or not. I was hoping to pile up the slabs and move them all at once with the big cat loader.

Would it be more efficient to take the slabs off on the loading arm side or use the drag back? I was hoping to stack the beams behind the mill using the drag back.

backwoods sawyer · May 29, 2014, 01:41:26 AM

You can use the clamp to tip the log to the loading arms slab slides off. get all four on the loading arms set them down on stickers, set log on mill, pick up slabs and move with forks. you can off load onto forks on the back side of the mill but forks need to be moved between each slab.
A mill layout that has no bottle necks will help keep your dayly production higher.
Larger logs are harder to slab deep and keep the saw guides from getting hung up, not all logs will let you get away with making four cuts.

shinnlinger · May 29, 2014, 06:06:02 AM

Will you typically be working alone? Slabs and timbers can pile up quick if everything is working and drag back or not you will have to deal with it. As mentioned, big slabs present their own issues for beam quality (and your back), so making boards make sense particularly if the logs are good.
Another issue is the bigger the slabs and beams the closer you will want to get a machine with forks to the mill and if speed is your primary drive something will get hit.
I would imagine you could get more $$$ out of nice boards than shavings so boning up on how to saw for grade might be worthwhile as well.

drobertson · May 29, 2014, 01:27:37 PM

Time really depends on how hard and fast you and hopefully an off-bearer wants to work, 5 mins should be a target time per beam. A new blade will put out plenty of beams for two workers. I have considered splitting logs for split rail fencing as well, not sure the best way yet, it does seem like splitting is better, just how to get it done is the stumper for me without breaking the back and breaking a sweat ;D not saying I don't like sweating of course, it's just a wedge mall thing that gets in the way,

Joe Hillmann · May 29, 2014, 04:44:58 PM

How many people will you have working on the mill at one time? Just you or will you have a helper or two?

Can the drag back system drag large slabs and cants all day without breaking something? The system is more than likely designed for moving boards that weigh much less than slabs and cants.

If you want to remove the slabs from operators side/ dump them on the operator side you first need to get the saw head out of the way. That means either dragging the blade backwards through the cut (some people do that and have no problem with it) or run the blade out past the log, raise it up over the top of the slab then run the head backwards.

If you remove the slabs off the back of the mill, either using the drag back or a person off loading you could then set up a couple sets of roller convayors behind the mill so once the slabs/cants are pulled off the mill you can roll the slabs to the left and cants to the right or vice versa and from there stack them on pallets. That way the cants and slabs get off the mill as quick as possible, you as the operator aren't tripping over them and they aren't in the way of loading the next log. Also by pulling off the back of the mill it keeps your off bearer out of the way of the blade if it were to break and fly off.

You ask if the wheel will get in the way of dumping the slabs off to the left. I assume you mean the trailer wheel and not the wheels on the top of the dogs. You could always remove that wheel if it gets in the way. If it is a long term rental you could probably remove the axle if the hub gets in the way as well. Of course then you may end up stumbling over the slabs as they pile up.

WoodenHead · May 30, 2014, 05:46:26 AM

If you are using an LT40 hydraulic or super, I'm not sure that the drag-back would work well for either large slabs or the beams. The super is definitely better at it, but if you're aiming for 4 cuts in a 30" diameter log to get an 8" x 12" heart-centred beam, those are some really big slabs!

I have a regular hydraulic and it probably could drag a 2" inch slab, but I generally don't push it. An LT70 is a better machine for that job. And I agree with Brad_S, with only 4 cuts, I'm thinking you might not always have straight beams. ;)

etroup10 · May 30, 2014, 07:40:32 PM

I got a little bit more information today. It turns out the log home business will take beams up to 18"x12" and any beams bigger than 12"x8" get a higher price! Before I was thinking we would only be cutting 12x6 and 12x8 so the slabs won't be to near as large. But on the big logs they will still be pretty decent sized. I will be working alone so I think the best option would be to use the drag back on the slabs then use the skid loader to take the beams off the mill. I'm guessing there will be less issues with stress since we will now be cutting beams up to 18"x12"?

etroup10 · August 03, 2014, 12:41:40 AM

Well the mill finally came in today!! I didn't get too much time with it yet but I had a ton of fun! We cut a practice log that had shake in it and used it for stacking boards and beams on. I only had time to cut one other log tonight which made a nice 14' long 8x8 for the log home business. I figured I would also had a couple pictures.

The first log, its a 6x12 here, but we ended up cutting it down to 4x6's to stack lumber on.

End of the day, only had time to mill one log other than the practice log, got a nice 8x8

Just a few of our logs that our too big for our shavers

This picture of the log yard was taken a little while ago, Its still pretty empty but we have put in another full row of logs! We are supposed to get 5 loads a day for the next 6 weeks from one logger alone!!

I'm basically sawing for beams for log homes, so we are taking off good sized slabs that will just be put in the shavers. We are also trying to get as many clear pine boards as possible, but for now just focusing on the beams!! The mill doesn't have a drag back system like I had thought, but I really do love the hydraulics!!

thecfarm · August 03, 2014, 05:24:59 AM

Fun is the name of the game!

Chuck White · August 03, 2014, 06:22:53 AM

Congratulations, it looks like you're off to a good start!

slider · August 03, 2014, 08:10:53 AM

Like Joe said a couple of roller tables would pay be nice in your set up.Especially when dragging back beams.Dose this 40 have roller toe boards ?

etroup10 · August 03, 2014, 08:17:08 AM

Quote from: slider on August 03, 2014, 08:10:53 AM
Dose this 40 have roller toe boards ?

It has toe boards but no rollers unfortunately. I'm pulling the beams off the side of the mill. I swing the back end of the beam around and place one end where I'm stacking the beams, then I slide it the rest of the way onto the stack. It actually went pretty well with that 8x8 but when I get to the bigger stuff like 18x12 I don't think I will be able to do that haha.