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Myrtle the Turtle is not happy! (Detroit 3-53 skipping)

Started by Dave Shepard, May 23, 2014, 08:43:10 PM

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Dave Shepard

Brought the TJ208 home this afternoon. Pulled off the road and started to head cross lots to get back to the farm and it started smoking, unburned fuel, and lost power. At idle, it sounds fine, except for a bit of popping in the exhaust. Talked to a couple of friends that know Detroits, and they are thinking bad injector. Anyone have this happen before?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

timberjack26

yes thats a good start.....that sounds it to me...

Dave Shepard

I'm going to go out in the morning and start it cold and see which hole it is, then pull that injector. I was also told to check to see if it's getting fuel in the oil, as it could be a crossover line, but I don't think it is. Where does everybody buy Detroit parts? I'm thinking this thing needs a rebuild this summer anyway.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

logman81

Give RCS diesel service a call, their right in ludlow Mass. They have most detroit parts in stock and also rebuild them to that's where I get my parts.
Precision Firewood & Logging

Dave Shepard

Is that Ron Chaisson? Last time I talked to him I had to hear about how much harder loggers work than dairy farmers. I've done both, and all I'm going to say is that trees don't drop dead if you don't milk them twice a day, seven days a week.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

logman81

Precision Firewood & Logging

logman81

I just got a grapple skidder and man i love it, and the power shift trans is awesome. hope you get it fixed quickly so you can get back at it. ;)
Precision Firewood & Logging

Dave Shepard

Fortunately I was done, and it happened on the way home. I've had enough logging for one season, although this last batch went petty well. I'm going out now with my IR thermometer to try and figure out which hole is dead. It doesn't look like injectors are a lot of money. Anybody rebuild their own? That would be really cheap.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

coxy

for 50-60 bucks id buy new reman and not fiddle trying to do it my self ;D

Dave Shepard

I can't pinpoint a non-firing cylinder. They are all within 10° of each other. At idle, it sounds normal, with just a little bit of popping through the exhaust.

Are the injectors marked with the part number on them? I didn't see any numbers on them, but I didn't take one out. If I do injectors, I'm going to get all three. If one failed, others may not be far behind.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

treechopper40

pull the valve cover off start it and while its running take a big screw driver and push down on the top of the injectors where the rocker arm touches it and hold it down if you have a bad injector this will tell you which one it is should have n45 injectors you also may have a broken spring on one of them that will make it skip too if you have any ??????????? s call me at 315 212 4363 I know quite a bit about them old screamers
1979 c5d treefarmer 1966 c5b treefarmer prentice g model loader 2 6100 dolmars a 6400 dolmar and a 7910 dolmar 2012 ford f 250 4x4 with a service body and 2 golden retreivers

Dave Shepard

I don't see any broken springs on anything. I didn't have any luck pushing down on the injector spring, I couldn't hold the screwdriver on long enough to push down. :D Thanks.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

treeslayer2003

Dave i would change out the filters first........could also be sucking air from a line. i have seen the fuel pump drive round out. my expieriance with injectors is if they stick they gone.........never got a better running engine from just replacing them.

timberlinetree

No break down is good but sometimes they do break down at a good time. Glad its not 0 degrees out with snow coming down. The other day we had a tire blow out on the way home, one minute away from our shop. Good luck with the diagnosis!
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

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Dave Shepard

I don't think there is any issue with fueling. I drained both housings, and the fuel was clean and no water. I fired the machine up and it ran the same as before. I opened the secondary filter and had a full stream of fuel running out. The front cylinder is lagging about 10 degrees behind the other two, so I am thinking that is the culprit. I'll have to figure out what number injectors they are. Supposed to be a disc with the number on it on the injector.

This is only half the battle. I know it has low compression from being hosed with ether, because it doesn't like to start, but runs like a champ once you get it going. I'm thinking it needs a complete overhaul, so putting in the new injectors will be the first step. When it's apart for the rebuild, I will take the head to a friend of mine to have the valves checked and machined, if needed. If I owned the skidder, I would put a 4BT Cummins in it. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

ozarkgem

I had the seals on the fuel pump go out on my 353 gen set. But the symptoms were a little different. It would start and die. 
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Dave Shepard

I went back out and puttered with it again after mowing the lawn (15 minutes with a 7' field mower :) ), and I was able to do the injector test. You have to brace the screwdriver against the fuel line long enough to depress the spring enough to get it below the rocker arm. #1 and #3 would kill the engine, but I could hold #2 down and no change. Does that confirm an injector failure, or could there be catastrophic piston failure and get the same result? I'm hoping I just have to put in a new set of injectors and get back up and running.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

UN Hooker

  Just swap #2 inj. with one of the other two and see what hole is bad then. If it's still #2 hole then its not the inj.

            UN
Retired Toolmaker/Moldmaker
C-4 & C5D TF - 5500 Iron Mule - Restored 4400 Ford Ind. FEL ex Backhoe w/custom built boom w/Valby 360* grapple w/18' reach - 920 Cat w/bucket & forks w/clamp - Peterson 10" WPF - LT-15 - Cooks Catsclaw & Dual tooth setter - many Husky saws

Dave Shepard

Will I need to adjust the injector? I don't have a book on 53 series, only 71 series.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

John Woodworth

If I was you in your situation, buy 3 reman injectors and put them in and hire a Detroit man to tune it, depending on the injector no. requires a guage to set it then you have to set the fuel rack, good time to set the valves as well.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

coxy

you do not have to take the rack off to put injectors in

Dave Shepard

Pulled the injector out of the dead hole and whacked it with a mallet. Got nice misting pattern out of the holes. So, the injector doesn't appear to be bad. There was a bunch of stuff on the end of the injector that must have been carbon buildup. Could there be a chunk of carbon under a valve holding it open? I guess it's time to pull the head. :(
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

BargeMonkey

 Sometimes ive seen an injector fail in the body, and spray fuel before it should, making it smoke and act like a dead cylinder. Slide the old injectors out, slide the new ones in. If your rack is still set you shouldnt have to play with it. I chased a problem on my 353 for 2 yrs, come to find out it had sucked junk into the fuel elbow and thats why she would bog down at high rpm somtimes. The little things are what will get you. 4BT's are cheap, I wish I had done it with mine. Actually thinking about stuffing a 4045T in it if I keep her.

Dave Shepard

When I get a chance, I'll swap #2 and #3 injectors and see if the dead hole moves around. These injectors are N40's, I couldn't find anyone selling them online, only N45, N50 etc.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

treeslayer2003


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