iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

How should I price cants????

Started by JB Griffin, May 08, 2014, 08:03:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JB Griffin

I had a guy call me wantin 4x12x8 cedar cants and then he backed down to 4x8x8 when I told him shot him a rough price of $50 for the 12s. I then quoted him $28 for the 8s he still thinks I'm too high but is supposed to call me back, I'm thinkin I should just tell him it's $28 or nuthin and let it go at that.

What do ya'll charge for large cants like this??? ???
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Your prices are more than fare IMO. NICELY....hold to your price.

I get $200.00 for a Cedar Mantle 4 x 10 x 6.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

the market varies for sure, your price is more than fair.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

JB Griffin

Thanks David I kindly figgered that I was cheap enuff on them but i guess he thinks going to a sawmill and cuttin out the middle man he can get um for a song.


P.S.
How many of those 4x10x6 mantles do you want, I'll cut em you sell and we'll split the profits :D I'd be thrilled to get $50 for one of those.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

JB Griffin

Quote from: drobertson on May 08, 2014, 08:46:11 PM
the market varies for sure, your price is more than fair.



What would you charge David ???
I've been trying to sell 750bdft of 1x cedar 4-10" wide for $1 bdft and haven't sold one board. :(
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

thecfarm

Tell him to go to a lumber yard and buy them.  ::)
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

drobertson

My guess, if they are his logs, he is figuring around 20 bucks, lil more maybe,  Lots of cedar and mills in our area, some folks are fortunate enough to have a niche, around these parts, not so easy,  economy is still pretty slow,  and the ones that can stimulate it, don't.  I reckon this is how they have the bucks,  Sad part is, they will most likely end up paying more from good sales pitch.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WDH

Tell him to go take a hike.  I assumed that the logs were yours. 

Your price for 1 x cedar is much lower than what I charge.  I don't think your problem is price.  I think your problem is customers. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

JB Griffin

2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

drobertson

then this settles one matter for sure,  and it boils down to whether he wants yours or not,  no harm, no foul.
You set the price, he can take it or leave it,  I really hate dropping the price once it's mentioned, kinda sets a precedence.   your call from here,  as you know, folks like to haggle a bit,  might find a way to make it work, and still come out.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Larry

Craigslist is filled with adds for cedar less than a $1/bf in north Arkansas.  I've seen some out of one of the bigger mills and it was pretty good quality.

I've sold some for $1/bf but it took a while. 
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

JB Griffin

THanks David I guess I'll just see were this goes from here.

Larry one of those ads was mine with no real bites at all ::)
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: JB Griffin on May 08, 2014, 08:49:51 PM




What would you charge David ???
I've been trying to sell 750bdft of 1x cedar 4-10" wide for $1 bdft and haven't sold one board. :(

A 10 inch wide Cedar board here is worth more than gold....especially if you have a lot of them. If they'er all Red...$2.00 BF in my area.

I just sold 9 slabs of Walnut 17-20 inches wide x 7 foot long and 2 inches thick for $700.00 to a guy in Atlanta. I got this log out of the burn pile the tree service brought in. He had a truck pick up the slabs for him today. I ran the ad on Craig's List.....nobody in my area even called. I had 1 call from Charleston, S.C......1 call from Asheville, N.C......and the buyers call from Atlanta.
In my mind.....this Walnut was CHEAP.....but the log was free and it took me 2 hours to saw it with care. When you have lumber.....let the world know about. Sooner or later people will come if you have a fare price.

My point is.....set a fare price....stick to......and be nice to the people who complain you're too high.....they'll be back.

****NOTE TO SELF: Don't take all the $700.00 to WDH's......I won't have any left.*******
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

WDH

The guy in Atlanta got a good deal.  That is a little less than $4.00/BF. 

I have a nice maple slab that I will let go for $700  :D. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

JB Griffin

You guy kill me with your $4bdft lumber, the best money around here is what flooring is bringing with fas red oak bringin $1.30. :'(
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: WDH on May 08, 2014, 09:33:51 PM
The guy in Atlanta got a good deal.  That is a little less than $4.00/BF. 

I have a nice maple slab that I will let go for $700  :D.

Do I need a truck or will it go in the glove compartment?  :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Banjo picker

Cedar is a plague in some places and sought after in others.  Depends on where you are.  Decent cedar is hard to come by here unless some one is cleaning up an ole grave yard, then no telling what you are going to hit in the logs.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

hackberry jake

Quote from: JB Griffin on May 08, 2014, 09:23:06 PM
THanks David I guess I'll just see were this goes from here.

Larry one of those ads was mine with no real bites at all ::)

One of them was mine and I moved about 800 board feet for $1 a board foot. I think the trick is having it on craigslist around planting time. All of the cedar I sold the customers told me they were going to build planters out of them.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Cedarman

If just a few 12" cants, then 3 bucks a foot is reasonable. 
8"  for a buck and a half is good.  Ask him what you are supposed to do with the rest of the log.  We have places to go with most of our wood, but most small mills have to wait for more customers.
He is thinking apples and wanting to buy oranges.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Brucer

I sell FOHC Douglas-Fir timbers for ...
4x12 = $7.60 per linear foot.
4x8 = $4.50 per linear foot.
These are with no wane, shake, or pitch pockets, and they meet the standards for #1 structural.

The notion that there is some kind of universal "fair" prices is a fallacy. A fair price is one that is negotiated between 2 parties before the order is finalized.

I charge enough to pay for the delivered log, plus enough to cover a portion of my overheads and to pay me what I consider to be a reasonable price for my time. Any less and I am paying my customer instead of the other way around.

I work from a price list and I DO NOT lower my prices in order to make a sale.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

mesquite buckeye

I was talking to the local wood store guy out here and he said he is happy to pay $3/bd ft for cedar lumber. He is selling it for $4.50. Of course this is Tucson, AZ and far from the redcedar stands. Transport costs eat up a lot of it. I just did a rough calc, seems like about 90 cents is what you are asking. Pretty decent deal if you ask me. Also, even though you have less cutting costs for cants and less sawdust loss, you have to have a better log than you would need to make just 1X stuff. You should get a premium for the cants, not a discount. I would tell the guy to go fly (nicely, of course).

The downside is you are in the heart of redcedar central, so you will always be getting the bottom dollar locally. You would do a lot better if you could locate a market where there is little redcedar available.

Best of luck. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

drobertson

Well said, mesquite! it is a killer here, outside markets are the only answer.  folks need to consider the real value of a product for what it's worth, not the availability, seems contradictory, in a sense.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Cedarman

If you want to sell outside your area, then a good website is a must.  You must also get set up to palletize , strap and get good shipping rates.
I have sold cedar into all 50 states except Wyoming.  I just don't think anyone lives there.  Some packages are just 30 to 40#.  Some 2 to 4000 feet and some truckloads.  Never know what people want.
Also check out people that sell a finished product and send them a note as to what you can supply.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

red oaks lumber

if you want a certain price for your lumber then you must be willing to hold firm on the price, knowing some will walk and the rest will see the value in what you sell.
the true salesman will not just give the price but, sell the customer on why its' worth the price, and then follow through with above expectation quaility lumber and service
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Larry

Quote from: Cedarman on May 11, 2014, 07:22:02 AM
If you want to sell outside your area, then a good website is a must.  You must also get set up to palletize , strap and get good shipping rates.

Cedarman proved it too me when he sold a large order to a customer within a few miles of me.  That customer paid a fair price plus shipping.

I was visiting a neighbor mill last week.  They were sawing a large cedar order destined to go out of state.

Finding a good customer is often much harder than making a good board.  They are out there, just maybe not on our local craigslist.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

VictorH

I priced 4x6" by 8' rough sawn red cedar posts at $32 and change plus tax at the box store.  Bought my fence panels, came home and sawed the 22 post I needed from a couple cedar logs I had been given.  No way I could have sawn and sold the lumber out of them for what I saved.

Magicman

This thread has illustrated many times that marketing is a very important portion of a sawing business.   smiley_thumbsup
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

Quote from: Magicman on May 11, 2014, 07:17:35 PM
This thread has illustrated many times that marketing is a very important portion of a sawing business.   smiley_thumbsup
smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup

Well said.  For example, I had a local guy come in this weekend and tell me my cedar price was too high (he bought a bunch of it anyway) and yet three weeks ago I had a guy drive 6 hours to buy the same cedar, telling me what a great deal it was.  He had been on an offshore oil rig in Lousiana, saw my website and when he got off shift he went home for a few days, hooked up his trailer and drove up here to North Alabama.  I asked him if he knew how many other sawmills he drove by to get to me, and he grinned and said "nope, I have no idea.  That's the point, I found you, so here I am."  He was also probably suffering from a good dose of cabin fever, but it certainly illustrates the power of a web site.
So, sell your wood for what you think is right, some people will complain, some will think its a bargain.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

drobertson

only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

JB Griffin

Thanks everybody, I still ain't heard back from that guy and really dont think I will.

I really need to work on my marketing and fb page but aint had the time.

Thanks again you guys are GREAT 8)
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

Tom Vorac

Hi,
Along the lines of this thread, I have a guy that wants me to cut 120 logs into cants for him.  How would you charge for this?
Thanks
Tom Vorac

tmarch

Quote from: Tom Vorac on December 19, 2014, 04:51:27 PM
Hi,
Along the lines of this thread, I have a guy that wants me to cut 120 logs into cants for him.  How would you charge for this?
Thanks
Tom Vorac
Your logs or his and at his place or yours.  Everything matters when you "bid" a job.
Retired to the ranch, saw, and sell solar pumps.

Magicman

I charge hourly rate plus blades, but there is a strong argument for charging by the board foot.  There are very valid points to be made both ways.  Yours or the customer's support equipment weighs heavily because cants are heavy and proper handling is an issue that must be addressed.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

beenthere

QuoteHow would you charge for this?

First, tell us how you are going to cut them.. on site, loading, turning, size of cants, unloading, etc.

And then, figure your acceptable price per bdft, and an hourly rate (not including band damage) and don't charge less than the lower one calculated. Partial payment after first 10 logs. Adjust as payment response pans out.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

sandsawmill14

Quote from: Tom Vorac on December 19, 2014, 04:51:27 PM
Hi,
Along the lines of this thread, I have a guy that wants me to cut 120 logs into cants for him.  How would you charge for this?
Thanks
Tom Vorac
I charge by the bdft no matter how they want it sawn . Job im on now i am sawing 4/4,8/4,4x6,and 7x9. I tally every day so they can move lumber total bdft is all charged same price. The only exception is when i saw 1/2" or 3/4" for siding the bdft for those is caculated as 4/4.  As far as being mobile i have never went to job for less than 2000 bdft smaller jobs bring them to me, but I have went and got logs if they had no way of hauling them(for extra charge of course) but i have log truck and can haul 12-1500 ft per load. I can do that in a couple hours where it could take a day or more to move mill setup then move back and set up back at home again. I just cant see 10 hours work for 2 hrs sawing i would have to charge a 10 bucks a bdft to make a living :D  but anyway the best for me is set a price for sawing and stick to it for everything
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Tom Vorac

The logs are his stacked on his property.  He will provide skid steer and operator to assist with handling.  What he wants done is to cut the logs into cants move them inside and sticker and stack.  Then this summer I will cut the cants into lumber to build a workshop for him.  Logs are all hardwoods mostly oak. 
Thanks
Tom

backwoods sawyer

Seems like a lot of extra handling.

Hourly rate both times ;D

Sure seems like it would be easier and cheeper for that matter to just have you mill it all to final sizes and then sticker it so it will be ready for further process when it is dry.

But every coustomer does it their way ;)
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Seaman

Tom, you need to tell him it will be more economical for you to cut boards the first time, and drying will be that much further along by summer.
Some folks want the logs ( cants  ) to SEASON, which only makes them harder IMHO .

Frank
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

WDH

Those oak cants will split and crack something fierce.  If cut into boards, they will behave much better.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Tom Vorac

Everyone. Thanks for informaon and insight.  I will suggest to the client that we cut the logs into lumber.
Thanks again and Merry Christmas
Tom

Dave Shepard

I haven't done much SDR (saw, dry, rip), but I agree with WDH. It works ok with softwoods, but I think it will be a disaster with hardwood.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

beenthere

SDR works pretty good with y. poplar flitches. Depends on what size is being dried, and what the later ripping sizes are to be, among other things.
We didn't hear what size cants were the plan. But going direct to lumber would be best if stickered well. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Dave Shepard

You are right, beenthere. I was thinking more about sawing a cant and then trying to resaw it. It would be like trying to resaw barn beams. Those checks ruin a lot of boards.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Thank You Sponsors!