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JD engine ID without motor tag????????

Started by Skiddersally, May 03, 2014, 06:58:05 AM

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Skiddersally

Hello, I bought a 540B last fall, off a small equipment dealer that is supposed to be very trust worthy. The skidder has been down on power since I brought it home. Very long story short I ran the numbers on the fuel pump they came up to be a pump off a 440C. I called the dealer i bought it  from he said he would switch the pumps out.(he had a 540 pump at the shop). Another long story short the nut that goes on the shaft of the pump (inside the font front cover of the motor) is bigger than the hole it's self. He claims they must have put the pump on then put the front cover on. He said it would be as easy to just pull the motor to change it because we would have to pull the front part of the skidder off to get to it. Ok having said all that the ID on the engine is not behind the oil filter, I can't find it anywhere on the motor. My fear is, is that someone stuck a 440 motor in my 540 an shipped it down  the road. How can I tell what motor I have without a tag??????? Thanks

sprucebunny

I'll bet that if you post a picture or two, someone here can tell you !
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

BargeMonkey

 99% youve got a 4-276 engine. Valve cover bolts on the bottom of cover and not centered on top right ? There should be a couple block casting numbers,  look for the one with a chisel mark on the square by the casting number. 200 series deeres are pretty common, parts arent hard to get.

snowstorm

with some injection pumps if you want more hp just turn the fuel delivery rate screw. if you dont know what you are doing dont touch it. low power could be a lot of things. dose it have blow by? high idle rpm? check it with a photo tach. wasnt the 540b only 80hp. i would not change motors or pumps

Skiddersally

Ok Is the motors the same in both skidders just the pumps are different? Idle is fine it has no blow by at all. I just know that if I nose down over a steep hill and try to back up it I have to be a half to to full power and then let the clutch out. Same is backing down over the hill to get a turn. I've been on 540s where you put them in first gear let the clutch out giver her fuel hit the diff lock and up the hill you go.

treeslayer2003

BM is right, 4-276 is whats in miine. 90 HP.
post up a pic.

PaYoungBuck

If I'm not mistaken they can be same motor an pump. My 540B has the 4-276 so does my friends 440C. The motors are the exact same.

snowstorm

Quote from: Skiddersally on May 03, 2014, 09:04:34 AM
Ok Is the motors the same in both skidders just the pumps are different? Idle is fine it has no blow by at all. I just know that if I nose down over a steep hill and try to back up it I have to be a half to to full power and then let the clutch out. Same is backing down over the hill to get a turn. I've been on 540s where you put them in first gear let the clutch out giver her fuel hit the diff lock and up the hill you go.
high idle is wide open

BargeMonkey

Quote from: PaYoungBuck on May 03, 2014, 12:05:42 PM
If I'm not mistaken they can be same motor an pump. My 540B has the 4-276 so does my friends 440C. The motors are the exact same.
Exactly.    No power ? Have you started small and went from there, before thinking about yanking an engine ? Hows the fuel and hose from the tank ? I had a 440A that had sand in the tank, every once in a while had trouble.

Maine logger88

Yes both the 540b and the 440c have the same motor just the 540 has 10 more HP due to injection pump setting you can just turn up the 440 pump rather than swap. And barge monkey is right 4-276 unless its been repowered with a 4045 as someone did with my 540, still the same motor tho
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Birchwood Logging

Dose any body know where i can get a 4276 i got a 550 dozer with one in it that is down i think it is rated at 73 hp
John Deere 700H with winch, John Deere 550A with winch, Cat 232 Skid Steer,Cat 262c Skid Steer, Wood Mizer Lt 40 super HD, Ford F-700 and F-600 log trucks, Ford F-450 dump truck

Southside

I can't speak to the difference in the motors but I had to pull the pump out of my 540A in the woods and it was not that big of a deal. My 490D harvester has a 4 cyl 80 ish HP engine in it and may be the same as yours. Looking at that pump removal would be the same as my 540 was. It does come off the shaft and the shaft stays on the engine.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

BargeMonkey

Quote from: Southside logger on May 03, 2014, 09:36:51 PM
I can't speak to the difference in the motors but I had to pull the pump out of my 540A in the woods and it was not that big of a deal. My 490D harvester has a 4 cyl 80 ish HP engine in it and may be the same as yours. Looking at that pump removal would be the same as my 540 was. It does come off the shaft and the shaft stays on the engine.
A 490D has a 4239, basically the same just bore. Really a simple engine to work on. Ive got a few tech manuals squirreled away if someone needs something.

BargeMonkey

Quote from: Birchwood Logging on May 03, 2014, 09:18:39 PM
Dose any body know where i can get a 4276 i got a 550 dozer with one in it that is down i think it is rated at 73 hp
Www.machinerytrader.com.  then go to the parts section, start looking for salvage machines. A 4-276 came in quite a few configurations, depending on machine. Your dozer is turbo ?  We had an issue with my 450G years ago, which had a 4-276. It was cheaper to have a 4045 dropped in.

Birchwood Logging

Will a 4045 work in it i have seen quite a few of them my dozer is a 550A model
John Deere 700H with winch, John Deere 550A with winch, Cat 232 Skid Steer,Cat 262c Skid Steer, Wood Mizer Lt 40 super HD, Ford F-700 and F-600 log trucks, Ford F-450 dump truck

BargeMonkey

Quote from: Birchwood Logging on May 04, 2014, 09:28:38 AM
Will a 4045 work in it i have seen quite a few of them my dozer is a 550A model
4045 before they became the powertech designation bolts right in. I know they did it on my dozer. Look around, I know shafers in wolf creek IL will have what you want.

redprospector

This is all pretty interesting to me.
JD #'s never made much sense to me, but I'm not a mechanic (unless I absolutely have to be).
I've got what I believe to be a 4-276 (non turbo) in my 450b dozer, at 64 horse power (I think).
I have what I know to be a 4-276 (turbocharged) in my 440b skidder, at 70 horse power.
I thought I had a 4045 (turbocharged) in my Hydro Ax 311C, at 140 horse power.
But through the help of a Prentice dealer in Colorado I have learned that it is a 4-239T that is rated at 109 horse power.
So now I'm really confused.  :D
I was hoping that the Hydro Ax had the 4045T for a little more power to run a mulcher. I may be better off sticking with my Fecon, or Bobcat for mulching.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

snowstorm

450 b and c had a 4219 440 a and b had a 4219 unless someone replaced yours

Maine logger88

4-276 stands for 4 cylinder 276ci t for turbo 4045 stands for 4 cylinder 4.5 liter
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

BargeMonkey

 I just bought a clean, low hour 4239D for 2200. If you look hard enough they are out there. Repowering my poor wood processor, gotten 6800 hrs out of the ford 2.3 engine. Its time.

Bobus2003

My 440 is powered by a 4045T, 130hp Gen-Set engine.. with the help of Schafer's it was a direct bolt in, makes it convenient to have the same engine in my skidder and dozer.

A 4-276 is still a 4.5l engine, just an older generation than the 4045(T)

Maine logger88

Yeh there isn't a lot of differences between them
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

redprospector

Quote from: snowstorm on May 04, 2014, 05:17:33 PM
450 b and c had a 4219 440 a and b had a 4219 unless someone replaced yours

Hahaha. Now I'm really confused.  :D
You are more than likely correct. The one thing I know for sure about all of my engines is that whatever they are, they ain't gettin' changed unless they lay down and die. I had to change engines in my Fecon FTX-90, and that was no fun at all.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

BargeMonkey

 Youve gotta watch some of the gen-set engines, especially the marine ones. Cam profiles, coolers, couple things that are different. Chances are good also if you buy a marine engine, or gen set engine that its been rebuilt 3-4 times already. On land a 6.8 powertech is good for 5-10k hours. Ive seen over 30k hours on them out here. Constant rpm and load, clean air and clean oil do wonders.

snowstorm

Quote from: redprospector on May 04, 2014, 09:58:51 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on May 04, 2014, 05:17:33 PM
450 b and c had a 4219 440 a and b had a 4219 unless someone replaced yours

Hahaha. Now I'm really confused.  :D
You are more than likely correct. The one thing I know for sure about all of my engines is that whatever they are, they ain't gettin' changed unless they lay down and die. I had to change engines in my Fecon FTX-90, and that was no fun at all.
sorry about being confused. 450 b and c 4219 turbocharged 440a natural b turbo charged and......a 276 head will bolt onto a 219

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