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So what's left

Started by ehp, May 01, 2014, 07:44:36 PM

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ehp

If I wanted to buy a new cable skidder  what can I buy and I would perfer small compared to big , I got a 230 A TJ with cummins in pretty good shape but once I wear it out then what do I do, I always liked the clark skidders but I believe they are gone so what next to buy a new JD 540 ?

SliverPicker

Check Black Hills Timber Equipment.  They have a Clark that looks good and a 380 TJ that looks exceptional.  I saw both machines in person.  Decent prices too.
Yooper by trade.

dnash

New? Tigercat 604 maybe...

Cat doesn't make new cable machines by the looks of their website. The smallest grapple is the 525C at 39,000lbs.

For the price of a new machine, you'd probably be further ahead to completely rebuild the 230.
JD 440C
JD 640D
Timberjack 205HR
JD 329E skidsteer
JD CT322 skidsteer

BargeMonkey

 604C is a good sized machine, work circles around a 230. Your choices are limited, maybe a 380C ?  I just recently bought a 450C, and its not as big in the woods as I thought, grapple is fast and your not fighting your butt off all the time. Michael sharp has a couple low hour 540's up there I wouldnt be scared off, 540 is just the right size.

Brleclaire

Apparently after 2015 you won't get a 540 either, see thread about 548's. Rebuilding your skidder is beginning to be one option to consider. With the new machines and all the electronics more people are looking at having their old stuff rebuilt. Especially with the tier 4 engines here in the US. Just seems like a lot of stuff to go wrong. Cat has a program where they take your old timbco strip it down and totally rebuild it for about half the price of new.

thenorthman

A little maintenance goes a long way...

motors can be rebuilt, or swapped.

Axles are rebuildable just not as common, really just new bearings, planetarys and diffs the housings should be ok.

hydraulics are cheap,

the transmissions are all repairable,

the winches for the most part can be rebuilt, some not so much those can be swapped out for a newer/easier to find parts for model

and the frame and what not is all weldable.

So if the factorys refuse to build reasonable sized machines for a resonable price, I'll just fix what I have and continue on.

The factorys reasoning behind make a motor fit a smaller machine or whatever is nonsense, they just want to sell everyone on the newest greatest gadget... (look here sir the entire machine is controlled by this little joy stick the operator wont even have to grease the grapple...).  If volkswagen can stuff 100 ponies under the hood of a golf, then Deere and Kitty Cat should have ample room in a skidder.
well that didn't work

HiTech

Everything starts out in a very practical and affordable size. Then like the Fast Food places everything gets Super Sized. Look at the ATV's, they went from practical little woods machines to haul a hunter to a tree stand or haul his deer out to Big fast machines that need gravel or paved roads to go on. Like 1/2 ton pickup trucks with over 400 hp to haul groceries home. When skidders that are priced at $300 to $400 thousand , they have to be big to pull the millions of feet of wood it takes to make their payments. Like "thenorthman" says a little maintenance goes a long ways and everything can be rebuilt or swapped out. Someday the mindset of "Big" is better may come crashing down.

shortlogger

Does anyone have a estimate of what it might cost to totally go through a 230 TJ from top to bottom ? It would be pretty nice to have a fully restored small cable rig .
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase . "NKJV"

thenorthman

Depends on the skidder and how old it is, But I would guess from 10-30k.

Having a motor rebuilt could easily be 5k.

axels i would think can be done for around 2k apiece.

winches... 1k or more

Transmissions can get spendy especially with the automatic types (torque converts) so 4-8k

Any welding and stuff is dependant an how bad the machine was abused and whether or not you need to line bore and repin anything.

The hydraulics shouldn't be to bad unless you need a pump.  And that's the kind of thing where you just fix as you go along.

This is all largely guess work on my part though.
well that didn't work

ehp

I need more smaller than larger to get threw the  timber we have here with out marking any of it up, my 230 is pretty wide at 109 inches or so . I had a 450 tj short frame with a 453 in it and that skidder worked very good and I think would not be much wider than my 230 . My 230 is pretty low hours and am thinking I will just keep fixing anything it needs , In about a year or so I'm going to need tires and most likely will drop in a new 4BT before this winter , it had a brandnew tranny just put in when I bought it . I need a cable as lots of places they donot want grapple . I think the 604 tigercat is way to large for around here and they are not very fast on the road , I do alot of 20 to 50 acre cuts and just drive the skidder to the next cut if its like 5 miles away or less , I got a couple big cuts for the summer if it drys up enough with the largest at 155 acres of red oak

Ed_K

 My taylor is at a little over 12k right now.The whole drivetrain is done, winch is done,centers and steering done, all it needs is another paint job and tires.Also need to rebuild the blade arm conections and cyc bushings. So 15k is close.
Ed K

Reddog

Looking to what the Scandinavians and Europeans have done for sub 100hp skidding.
A skid winch on a armored up 4x4 farm tractor seems to be about the only option left for the smaller foot print.

Still isn't cheap by any means if purchasing all new equipment.

redprospector

Quote from: thenorthman on May 02, 2014, 09:42:01 AM
Depends on the skidder and how old it is, But I would guess from 10-30k.

Having a motor rebuilt could easily be 5k.

axels i would think can be done for around 2k apiece.

winches... 1k or more

Transmissions can get spendy especially with the automatic types (torque converts) so 4-8k

Any welding and stuff is dependant an how bad the machine was abused and whether or not you need to line bore and repin anything.

The hydraulics shouldn't be to bad unless you need a pump.  And that's the kind of thing where you just fix as you go along.

This is all largely guess work on my part though.

Your guess on the axles is about the same as mine was....until lately.
The town I live in (700 people) shelled the planetarys out of their JD 410E backhoe. I know it's not a skidder, but it's an axle.
John Deere wanted well over $9000 to rebuild it, and the parts to do it weren't very affordable either. We found a place that would sell a rebuilt rear end for about $7000 exchange. Best deal that we could find. I was totally amazed.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

thenorthman

Holy hanna...

its just a couple of bearings and a couple of gears, hardest part is fitting the clearance... these dealers must be on drugs...

I looked at the parts just for the wheel bearings on mine a few weeks ago and it was like 150 per wheel, a guy would thing the rest wouldn't be so bad
well that didn't work

BargeMonkey

 Axle and ZF trans come down together in those. Someone got bent over on that one. We limped by with our 850B for years with leaky drive motors. Deere doesnt even wanna try to rebuild them anymore. Machine shop in Schenectady NY wanted 10k a side to partially go thru them. We resealed them, couple shims and wished them luck.

treeslayer2003

engine rebuild is way cheaper than even going thrugh one side of a planetary axle.....gears n bearings is gold plated ya know.

ehp

So how much in the States does it cost to rebuild a Cummins 4BT motor ?  Rearends I would think would be close to $5,000 a piece if you can use some of the old parts

BargeMonkey

Quote from: ehp on May 04, 2014, 11:08:48 AM
So how much in the States does it cost to rebuild a Cummins 4BT motor ?  Rearends I would think would be close to $5,000 a piece if you can use some of the old parts
If you look around ive seen new 4bt's for close to 5. I can buy a clean low hour take out for 2500. Just a complete engine kit is 12-1800, but a B series cummins was parent bore so depends how wiped the cylinders are.

treeslayer2003

i did the 4 cyl. in my 540 for 1500 using deere kit. head and pump was fine and i did the work.

ehp

I would just sooner drop in a new motor and new clutch and go , If I can buy one for any where close to $5,000 I would do that in a heart beat

shortlogger

Quote from: Reddog on May 03, 2014, 11:20:06 AM
Looking to what the Scandinavians and Europeans have done for sub 100hp skidding.
A skid winch on a armored up 4x4 farm tractor seems to be about the only option left for the smaller foot print.

Still isn't cheap by any means if purchasing all new equipment.

That's been where I'm at , trying to decide if I would rather get a 75 hp or so 4x4 tractor and add skid plates and guards and a skidding winch or buy an older TJ and go through it . I only log part time and I have a farm that I could use the tractor on when I'm not logging so I'm not sure what would be better in the long run .
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase . "NKJV"

xalexjx

if it were me id run what ya have. change/ check the fluids and a grease gun and itll last a long time, if you get a small leak either keep it filled or fix it, dont let all the stuff snowball up or youll have a rag and have to put 10k into it at once. thats my 2c
Logging and Processed Firewood

chester_tree _farmah

Quote from: shortlogger on May 04, 2014, 09:37:01 PM
That's been where I'm at , trying to decide if I would rather get a 75 hp or so 4x4 tractor and add skid plates and guards and a skidding winch or buy an older TJ and go through it . I only log part time and I have a farm that I could use the tractor on when I'm not logging so I'm not sure what would be better in the long run .

What type of terrain do you cut? I ask because up here in Maine the ground is just too uneven and rough to run a farm tractor for commercial logging. You will just beat that tractor up trying to produce. Now if you cut your farm land yourself or the land u cut is old farmland and  pretty smooth the tractor is a viable option.  IMO.

Or get a 40 hp tractor and a solid old TF or TJ etc. :-)
254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

shortlogger



What type of terrain do you cut? I ask because up here in Maine the ground is just too uneven and rough to run a farm tractor for commercial logging. You will just beat that tractor up trying to produce. Now if you cut your farm land yourself or the land u cut is old farmland and  pretty smooth the tractor is a viable option.  IMO.

Or get a 40 hp tractor and a solid old TF or TJ etc. :-)
[/quote]

Most if what I work is pretty good ground farm edges and small tracts if it's too steep I just stay away from it . I already have two 45 hp tractors I use some but they are too weak on pulling big logs to suit me so that's why I'm thinking skidder or big 4x4 tractor
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase . "NKJV"

Reddog

One thing nice with the skid winch in steep ground is the amount of cable they will carry.
Easily two or three times the reach of a skidder winch.
So you can work with out the need to drive the steepest sections in rolling ground a lot of times.

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