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Felling Video

Started by SliverPicker, April 29, 2014, 10:35:29 AM

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SliverPicker

I stumbled across this.  Pretty interesting.  I hope this guy posts more videos.  There's a dandy clip at about 2:45.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqOEho4f0w
Yooper by trade.

clww

Enjoyed that video, once I turned the noise off. ::)
That spot you pointed out at 2:45 scared me. :o :o I've had a couple do that, but nowhere near that large a tree.
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Jeff

Ha! Almost exactly what I was about to post!

A most excellent video once muted. :)  Yea, wicked moment there at 2:45
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thecfarm

I was yelling to that guy to go up hill. Things can go wrong quick.
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Road Runner

The almost disasterous mishap at 2:45 is a good example of why to have an escape route at 45 degrees away from the stump.  On most of these trees the faller or fallers stood or exited behind the stump directly in line with the falling tree.
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SliverPicker

A 45 degree escape isn't always possible. 
Yooper by trade.

Huskstihl

Quote from: Jeff on April 29, 2014, 11:05:33 AM
Ha! Almost exactly what I was about to post!

A most excellent video once muted. :)  Yea, wicked moment there at 2:45

Classic barber chair.  The tree started going and he backed away.  It stalled out.  He looked long and hard at it, then went back and hit it again.  When it stalled all that forward momentum from the top had nowhere to go but up the tree, resulting in the split.  On a tree that size I doubt there is ever a way to "get thru the back cut fast", and he likely needed to have gotten rid of some of the holding wood before starting the back cut.  But as Gologit says, "you can do everything perfectly and still the tree doesn't cooperate"

SliverPicker

Big and rotten.  Always interesting rarely predictable. 

That clip makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
Yooper by trade.

BradMarks

Time to take a break! (and change the undies).  Even the most experienced get surprised. One less cat in his life! 

terry f

   That's some nice wood, scary cutting the rotton stuff, wonder why it wasn't left.

chester_tree _farmah

Huh - awesome video and great camera work. I liked the music and yes I am 49.  8)


I wonder if the possiblility of getting serioulsy hurt makes us enjoy doing it so much? Kind of like some folks thrill seek by bungee jumping and rock climbing?
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Magicman

That was a pucker moment that he will not forget.   :o
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BEEMERS

Thanks for that video..people need to see stuff like that barberchair at 2:45. That guy knew the chances of something going bad were *DanG good.Im guessing he knew it was rotten after he cut in but not before...then he was commited and had to get it down.tree sat down on the saw and he knew when to give up the saw and run.
He got away but that tree was just as likely to come down on the other side and get him.What were all the factors in that happening and him surviving? How can you reverse engineer what happened and apply it to the next tree?..You cant!! probably this guys 10,000th tree.Now go tell him that you have a couple trees your gonna cut and you did the math and studied the physics and ya got it all figured out.I bet his reply would be a little harsh!!! And DO NOT start the conversation with "Im an engineer.." :D  Loved that video,keep em comin!!

lumberjack48

Hind site is always 20/20, he got a little ahead of himself. The bad thing is he panicked and almost got himself killed. He would have been safe if he would have planed his escape up hill. NO, he ran in to the kill zone. When cutting rotten timber it takes a lot more thinking so you don't  make mistakes like this.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

chester_tree _farmah

I beleive out there the big companies prefer to clear cut and replant? So they cut it all - rotton or not. That is why you see them blowing up the stump. If something is too harry to cut with a saw they blow it up.

But someone out west should know?

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Jeff

Quote from: lumberjack48 on April 29, 2014, 02:45:09 PM
Hind site is always 20/20, he got a little ahead of himself. The bad thing is he panicked and almost got himself killed. He would have been safe if he would have planed his escape up hill. NO, he ran in to the kill zone. When cutting rotten timber it takes a lot more thinking so you don't  make mistakes like this.

Not sure what you were watching... smiley_tom_dizzy02
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Ezekiel 22:30

chester_tree _farmah

It looked to me like it was almost vertical behind him?

That must be a trip dropping one of those huge trees. I have heard big white pine hit the ground and those must be twice the size.

Did anyone see that one little wedge in that big one towards the end. Cracked me up.  OK I will shut up now.
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ozarkgem


My question is where does all the clear lumber go to. It sure doesn't make to the lumber yards here.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

SliverPicker

1)  He may have know the thing was rotten before cutting in to it.  He certainly knew as he cut in to it that it was rotten. 

2) He could have done all the planning in the world, but he could never have predicted what direction the shards of the tree were going to go in.  He could have planned to run up hill, but the odds of the tree blowing up up hill where the same as the odds of the shrapnel going downhill or straight back for that matter.

3)  I used to be a photographer and there is another factor at play here.  At any focal length longer (read:zoom factor) than what most humans' eyes see the camera compresses distances.  That tree may have been much farther behind him when it blew than it appeared in the video.

Cutting trees for a living has risks and there is no mitigating all of them.  PERIOD.  You can't control any where near all the variables involved with each tree you cut.
Yooper by trade.

chester_tree _farmah

Quote from: SliverPicker on April 29, 2014, 08:04:30 PM
1)  He may have know the thing was rotten before cutting in to it.  He certainly knew as he cut in to it that it was rotten. 

2) He could have done all the planning in the world, but he could never have predicted what direction the shards of the tree were going to go in.  He could have planned to run up hill, but the odds of the tree blowing up up hill where the same as the odds of the shrapnel going downhill or straight back for that matter.

3)  I used to be a photographer and there is another factor at play here.  At any focal length longer (read:zoom factor) than what most humans' eyes see the camera compresses distances.  That tree may have been much farther behind him when it blew than it appeared in the video.

Cutting trees for a living has risks and there is no mitigating all of them.  PERIOD.  You can't control any where near all the variables involved with each tree you cut.

Well said. Trees that big increase the danger factor I would think. There is a lot of force blowing that trunk apart.
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chester_tree _farmah

Like I said above the dude must have some thrill seeker in him. :-)
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SliverPicker

The broken and rotten ones turn my stomach every time.  Sometimes its best to walk away.  If you are cutting for a living and walk away too many times pretty soon you find yourself getting fewer calls.  There is pressure to produce.
Yooper by trade.

chester_tree _farmah

Quote from: SliverPicker on April 29, 2014, 08:14:50 PM
The broken and rotten ones turn my stomach every time.  Sometimes its best to walk away.  If you are cutting for a living and walk away too many times pretty soon you find yourself getting fewer calls.  There is pressure to produce.

U cut those big boys?
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beenthere

QuoteMy question is where does all the clear lumber go to. It sure doesn't make to the lumber yards here

There are moulding and shop grades of softwood lumber that command high prices and are used by the door and window manufacturers, i.e. Pella, Andersen, JeldWen, etc.
And you are right, these high value grades don't make it to the Box stores. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

SliverPicker

I had exactly one job where some of the trees where in that class.  It was a blast.  Here in the Colorado I doubt I will ever be in a patch that size again.  Who knows though.  Now that the lodgepole beetle epidemic is winding down we are having a spruce bug that is knocking the heck out of the higher elevation spruces.  Some of them are monsters.  Hopefully I can do some mitigation work in some of that stuff.
Yooper by trade.

chester_tree _farmah

Nice. We need pics of some of those big ones. How many of those trees that class does one typically fell in an 8 hour day. Must take some time just to try and figure out where it wants to go?
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thenorthman

Quote from: terry f on April 29, 2014, 01:54:57 PM
   That's some nice wood, scary cutting the rotton stuff, wonder why it wasn't left.

Danger tree, snags have to be dealt with or they can get knocked over and kill the rigging crew.  At the end they used explosives to deal with an old snag, but blowing things up takes time most snags can be hand fell safely, that one was the rule that proves the exception.

Could also be the dude read it as solid and was wrong, if it where more solid it would have been a very lucrative few logs...
well that didn't work

chester_tree _farmah

Quote from: thenorthman on April 29, 2014, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: terry f on April 29, 2014, 01:54:57 PM
   That's some nice wood, scary cutting the rotton stuff, wonder why it wasn't left.

Danger tree, snags have to be dealt with or they can get knocked over and kill the rigging crew.  At the end they used explosives to deal with an old snag, but blowing things up takes time most snags can be hand fell safely, that one was the rule that proves the exception.

Could also be the dude read it as solid and was wrong, if it where more solid it would have been a very lucrative few logs...

Would it be possible to have a few good top logs in those not so solid trees he felled?  That old growth stuff brings good money doesn't it?
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thenorthman

To answer a few questions to the best of my ability, I wasn't there...

1: most of that wood is going to export so we'll never see it again.

2: Its steep ground, sometimes you only have one escape route and its the worst one possible.

3: Its helo ground so its real fing steep and nowhere to run, lots of guys die on helo ground.

4: yes falling big timber is a blast, and an adrenaline rush everytime, I unfortunately loose most of my hearing in a good adrenaline rush and don't always hear them hit the ground, but you can feel them hit.
well that didn't work

chester_tree _farmah

Quote from: thenorthman on April 29, 2014, 09:12:02 PM
To answer a few questions to the best of my ability, I wasn't there...

1: most of that wood is going to export so we'll never see it again.

2: Its steep ground, sometimes you only have one escape route and its the worst one possible.

3: Its helo ground so its real fing steep and nowhere to run, lots of guys die on helo ground.

4: yes falling big timber is a blast, and an adrenaline rush everytime, I unfortunately loose most of my hearing in a good adrenaline rush and don't always hear them hit the ground, but you can feel them hit.

I bet. I have felt big white pine drop hard on frozen ground. Can't imagine how those sound.
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thenorthman

Nothing like a big Doug fir in a thick stand hitting the ground solidly, The dougs tend to not have any limbs for the first 60-80 feet, so they get some good air speed up before touching down. :laugh:


The really fun ones are the limbless snags, no limbs to slow them down at all, and they tend to detonate on impact.
well that didn't work

treeslayer2003

Quote from: thenorthman on April 29, 2014, 09:12:02 PM
To answer a few questions to the best of my ability, I wasn't there...

1: most of that wood is going to export so we'll never see it again.

2: Its steep ground, sometimes you only have one escape route and its the worst one possible.

3: Its helo ground so its real fing steep and nowhere to run, lots of guys die on helo ground.

4: yes falling big timber is a blast, and an adrenaline rush everytime, I unfortunately loose most of my hearing in a good adrenaline rush and don't always hear them hit the ground, but you can feel them hit.
hmmm, this is why i never remember hearing them? i do feel the ground shake.

thenorthman

Quote from: chester_tree _farmah on April 29, 2014, 09:10:53 PM
Would it be possible to have a few good top logs in those not so solid trees he felled?  That old growth stuff brings good money doesn't it?

Yes and no... depends on how bad they broke up, how rotten they are.  And as far as I can tell the old growth gets a premium only because of its tight growth rings, some second growth timber has just as tight of rings as the true old growth.

As a note, it seems like a lot of the trees in that vid had breakage if not butts coming apart then the tops tagging stumps or whatnot, these are things that should be avoided, granted its impossible not to break a few now and then, but its not a good habit to get into.  Having the butt log disintegrate on you is unfortunately part of the game on those big ceders.  The fallers job is to try to minimize that as much as possible...  Hence make yer undercuts steep and deep, allows the tree more time to stick to the stump and slows it down as much as possible, a nice shallow face is all well and good, but it does tend to release the tree to jump a bit and then come crashing down full force.  Which is fun in its own right...
well that didn't work

chester_tree _farmah

Both yeah. That one in the beginning where the butt flys up in the air when the top hits. You don't want to get hit by that.  U r done.
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Maine logger88

That's a fun video to watch and yes I did like the music haha! I would love to cut a few of those big old trees
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BEEMERS

I think that it is obvious that thenorthman is the go to guy on this topic. In fact it sounds like his knowledge is as sound as 20/20 hindsight.I mean that with respect.

thenorthman

Meh there's other folks better then me and with worlds more experience, I just watch and learn.  Hope to pick some stuff up on the way...
well that didn't work

Big Rooster

Where is this clip post....so worth watching?

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Big Rooster

yeah I checked first post...nothing relogged in and refreshed...nothing???

Jeff

You must not have flash on your computer.  You have to have flash in order to see embedded videos. Or, you are using a phone. Many phones don't do flash.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Big Rooster

on an IMAC....normally the videos come up

SquareG



That guy must have some big hairy vegetables crawling an that cliff cutting big rotten trees.

That said, I respectfully agree with the half of posters saying it is a video of what not to do.  Do not barber chair one tree after another.  Do not retreat to the rear of the tree.  It is absolutely not just as safe behind the tree as to the side of it, especially if every one is barber chair.  Do stand there and look at the stump fail and figure what you need to do different for next one if you don't already know.

But then you've established in this thread that guys with engineering background are not credible enough to post, but those with photography or whatever, that's OK. 


Jeff

SquareG,   I'm going to remind you of something.  This is The Forestry Forum, it is NOT the other website mentioned earlier. This site has and always will be family friendly.  A couple of your posts have been dancing on the edge of being inappropriate.  What is appropriate?  See that little girl in your avatar?  Pretend she's sitting there with you reading with you. Pretend you need to explain to her your references.

For many years the Forestry Forum has been a trusted resource for people of all ages. Including kids doing research as we are listed many places as a safe site. When you post, remember that.


For the previous mention of flaming (And this is not directed to any single person) I should mention, that sort if thing here is not tolerated. Ever.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

timberlinetree

I used to see those big helicopters fly over all the time when I was a kid. We would call them flying grass hoppers.
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SquareG

Quote from: Jeff on April 30, 2014, 07:12:58 AM
SquareG,   I'm going to remind you of something.  This is The Forestry Forum, it is NOT the other website mentioned earlier. This site has and always will be family friendly.  A couple of your posts have been dancing on the edge of being inappropriate.  What is appropriate?  See that little girl in your avatar?  Pretend she's sitting there with you reading with you. Pretend you need to explain to her your references.

For many years the Forestry Forum has been a trusted resource for people of all ages. Including kids doing research as we are listed many places as a safe site. When you post, remember that.


For the previous mention of flaming (And this is not directed to any single person) I should mention, that sort if thing here is not tolerated. Ever.

Wow.  They'll learn that flaming means something other than nonconstructive criticism of another poster, such as saying LMAO to a constructive poster.  They'll learn engineers are sometimes refered to as "pigs".  They'll learn about prejudices and how they run so deep normally good folks will never see.  I would bet the OP "troll",  on the other thread you're thinking of, is a college professor, illustrating to a bunch of students what happened here.  Who else would put that much work into it?

What did I say to offend my daughter? Hell? Thats pretty much it for what I knew.  I have never been on  the "other site" whatever.

shannon


Jeff

Look back at your posts, not just in this topic. How about the veiled references to male anatomy and the the mild profanity? I don't want a "wow" out of you. What I want is an "Okay, I understand, this is your house."  That's it. You don't need to talk like an 8th grader here to fit in. I asked you decently the first time to watch your approach.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

SliverPicker

At any rate I hope the guy who posted this video on YouTube does some more.  This one had a different "feel" to it.



Jeff, thanks for the forum.
Yooper by trade.

trapper

Jeff's the boss and I like the way he runs the forum.
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Huskstihl

I only saw one barber chair.  As a general rule, the guy footing the massive overhead bill involved in heli-logging is not going to bring along an inexperienced crew. That guy is alive cause he had the experience to expect a chair, and to realize what was happening very early

roadiestar

All i'm saying is that God he is OK. It could of been real ugly.

OneWithWood

Do you think he was saving that face shield for another day? :)
One With Wood
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luvmexfood

Quote from: OneWithWood on May 03, 2014, 02:21:25 PM
Do you think he was saving that face shield for another day? :)

Well it might have gotten broken. HA
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

CCC4

Quote from: SquareG on April 30, 2014, 06:05:17 AM

That said, I respectfully agree with the half of posters saying it is a video of what not to do.  Do not barber chair one tree after another.  Do not retreat to the rear of the tree.  It is absolutely not just as safe behind the tree as to the side of it, especially if every one is barber chair.  Do stand there and look at the stump fail and figure what you need to do different for next one if you don't already know.

But then you've established in this thread that guys with engineering background are not credible enough to post, but those with photography or whatever, that's OK.

So where are the multiple barber chairs one right after another? Am I missing something? The one tree lost it's conformity on the stump...not a barber chair at all. Do you have any idea at the level of faller you are "Nit picking"...obviously not! To even be on that job and falling hazard trees of that size is only left for highly experienced fallers period!

Are you seriously suggesting that faller go back and look at his stump to see what happened?? His chain grabbed...do you know what that feeling is when the the tree is committing and yer hinge is too thick yet to bail and your chain grabs??? Obviously not, so for you to say anything negative about his cutting is straight up arrogant and foolish for a faller of only "2" years to do.

It's not your "engineering" that is causing your problems...it's your posts! I sat here trying to make myself step over your post like a turd in the woods but the more I read you slamming that faller and offering your suggestions as to what to do in that case....which you have zero clue what you are talking about due to the fact that I know darn well that you have never had to fall many hazard trees... or your views would be waaaay different.

So from your back ground, how would you have suggested the faller handle the tree that lost it's conformity on the stump? Even though I have never had a tree to do that..I will tell you what I would have done!....I would have fell that tree with what I know...when it goes bad like that and you are ok...you go home and you hug your wife and child up extra hard that evening! ...That is how you handle those situations!

Jeff

First off, I totally agree with the position stated in the last post by CCC4, But lastly, I'll not allow any more posts on this topic that appear even the least argumentative between members. I have no problem with healthy debate, but since I have almost a decade and a half in mediating topics here, I can clearly tell when there is a verbal chasm ahead and this is one of those times.

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

mesquite buckeye

Well put Jeff.

I see some stuff in the video I didn't like either, like dropping on stumps, across ravines, etc., but I was not there. Sometimes you can adjust for obstacles and sometimes you can't. :-\
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Ed_K

 I used that clip to show my tree warden helpers how fast thing can turn bad.Even rita jumped when i showed her the tree splitting.
Ed K

Jeff

Quebecnewf had this happen a few years back. How do you predict this?

http://youtu.be/GGhfWrqLbEo
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SquareG

I apologize for my post.  A guy feels he is defending himself, when actually he's roasting people worse than anyone else.  I regret this thread has not led to a discussion about method or methods for preventing split butts.  In frustrated haste I said barber chair every one.  There's no excuse, and I apologize for it. 

luvmexfood

Sometimes when I post after I think about it awhile and go back and reread it doesn't always say what I ment for it to say.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Tree Killer

Quote from: SquareG on May 04, 2014, 01:09:55 AM
I apologize for my post.  A guy feels he is defending himself, when actually he's roasting people worse than anyone else.  I regret this thread has not led to a discussion about method or methods for preventing split butts.  In frustrated haste I said barber chair every one.  There's no excuse, and I apologize for it.
oh yuk why apoligize for ur opinion, just because somebody dose'nt agree. We have a right to say what we want , others don't have the right to not be offended. Im tired of the apologies in this country everyday . Not sure if this is concidred a heathy debate but the thought policeing takes over a thread and hijacks the original post.


luvmexfood

I must say I like this forum. Used to visit another about tractors but it got to bad. People calling others jerks if they didn't like their posts, arguments requiring video proof of what the claiment said he could do.

Sort of like if someone said they could do something blindfolded which is just a matter of speach then they would get called out to prove it.

Jeff runs a fair forum here.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

goose63

Jeff runs a mighty fine forum here and I think it needs to be kept that way for those that like the way things are run thy don't have to read it
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
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Tree Killer

I dont think that name calling is appropiate for a forum, but a public repromand  that hijacks the thread is ridiculus.  We are on here for many reasons that revolve around a industry that we love. I wood like to belive that we can all speak our minds on  subjects and be adults with a informed opinion.  I wood not call this a fair forum this is where a attempt at a comical line is something a member feels he has to apoligize for. If I wanted to read just boring info with zero comic relief I wood go read a shop manual.

thenorthman

Meh everyone has an oppinion...

Personally I think some folks just don't have a sense of humor, either that or I'm not as funny as I think I am.

otherwise this is a great forum, Just have to watch what we say, a little ribbing is probably ok, outright name calling and being rude is uncalled for.


Back on topic now... That Doug that came apart in the vid I would classify as a barber chair, for whatever reason, it happened and dude is safe.  For a Fir to come apart like that I would have to assume that there was some kind of internal badness the rest of us at home could not see firs are not known to chair like that.  The fact that he filmed it tells me he wasn't sure if it would work or not.  Otherwise the majority of the falling in that vid was spot on.
well that didn't work

chester_tree _farmah

I agree that one was a barber chair and the forces in that huge tree caused the tree just above his cut to explode. If he could do it over he would probably gone up that hill but that was split second reaction and not thought. It happened too fast and his reaction speed is what saved him. And his experience. You can see him step back from the saw and use one hand. He knew from experience it could go bad fast. And it did. That is experience with big trees. Awesome video and awesome tunes! :-)

Thanks for sharing it with us OP.
254xp
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