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Two stroke oil mix ratio

Started by Chop Shop, April 27, 2014, 01:45:34 PM

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Chop Shop

I have noticed mix ratios advice thats ALL OVER the place.

From 20-1 to 32-1 to 50-1 and so on.

Im not really looking for advice, Im kinda set in my ways.  Im just looking to see what others opinions are.


I run my saws at 50-1 with old orange bottle non-syn Stihl oil.

Old saw, new saw, good saw, bad saw, they all get the same gas/mix.

Ive been running two stokes since I was a kid and still have both of my old two stoke quads (both 250Rs, one duner and one trail/play). No I dont run saw gas/mix in the bikes! lol


I cut allot of firewood and have a over a dozen saws.  I use the most fuel milling slabs.  I feel that slabbing most likely puts the most wear and tear on the internals of a saw.   Nothing like a 3 foot wide cut thats 12 feet long to test your oil.


I feel the oil quality has come along ways since the old 32-1 days.   I also feel that the saw quality has gone downhill.

Two strokes havent changed much over the years.  Nikasil plating and internal materials havent really changed for along time.

Why would someone recommend heavy oil mix in an old saw even when using modern oils?  Heavy oil mix just means less fuel and more carbon.  I feel a nice fat "in the wood" kinda tune is more important that choking a saw down with too much oil.


What do you run?  And why?

thecfarm

I fried one saw running 50:1. Dealer kept sayin it was not,but I'm the only one mixing and running it. I should know. I went to 40:1 and have not looked back. I'm kinda set in my way too.
Does not matter to me what others say or do. It's not being put in my saw,they can put as much or as little oil as they want.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

pine

Stihl says 50:1, Stihl trained repair guy says 50:1 I have a lot of  hours on my equipment and it works for me.  Technician did tell me and showed me the problems that he has seen from a guy that was running too much oil but did not know what and how much he was running just that it was excessive.

I have been using HP Ultra  for last 8+ years.  I found a bottle of the old orange Stihl mix on a back shelf (over 15 years old).  I being rather frugal did not want to throw it away but have become convinced that the HP Ultra is the only thing to put in my equipment.  I asked the technician if there was a reasonable way to blend it with the "good" stuff and he said that I could use it in my 20 year old 026 with no problems but that he would not recommend it in the newer equipment that I have.  He said the tolerances have changed enough that he would just put in back on the shelf if I could not keep it solely for the older machine.  It is only a 2.6 oz bottle and I now buy it by the gallon so it really does not matter.

martyinmi

I run mine at 40:1 only 'cause my dear old uncle AlSmith says 1 part oil in 50 parts gasoline is waaaaay too lean! ;D ;D :D :D 8) 8)
No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

ladylake

 One reason to run a little richer is in a thread below, lost rod bearing.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

mad murdock

I run 32:1 in all my 2 strokes, even my yammer hammer blaster. I did away with the 2 cycle injection circuit, so I can premix fuel for it. My saws and the other 2 strokes I run  I use the walmart oil you by in the gallon jug. Works for me, no issues.  I do a lot of milling with my saws.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

brettl

I've run 50:1 for several years now but always have had doubts. Just because they run well now on it doesn't mean they will last longer than if I were using 40:1. If I knew for sure that changing to 40 would not harm saws broken in at 50, I think I'd change just to be on the safe side.

This is a dead horse that's really had the crap kicked out of it. :D However, I think it's worth bringing back up once in a while in case some new research surfaces to tell us something different

beenthere

Bought a Stihl 041 new 1975, and used the 50:1 mix with Stihl oil. Retired that saw in 2004 w/o any repair other than a broken rear handle. Ran strong the entire time. May just have been the right mix for that saw but likely is the quality of the gas the oil is mixed with that counts most.

What others do is fine with me. I'll stick to 50:1
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

gspren

  As to finding some older 2stroke oil, when my dad gave me several bottles of Homelite oil from a weed eater he got rid of years ago I add a few ounces of it to each 5 gallons of diesel that I pour in my John Deere diesel tractor, can't hurt and should help.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Jiles

I consider 50 to 1 to be an EPA thing. Although all quality oils are far better then they were a few years ago, I run all my air cooled two strokes 40-1.  I have, under severe service run them 32-1. I always use ethanol free  93 octane gasoline and synthetic blend oil.  Never had a problem.
Satisfy needs before desires

thecfarm

martyinmi,where is that Uncle Al guy??  ;D  I needed him on another thread and he never rose to the cause.  :(
I also buy the highest grade of gas at my local gas station in all my small motors,just to add some more fuel to the fire. Hey Al what do you use for oil??  Those little bottles?  :o  We need a smiley chucking wood into a fire.  :D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

John Mc

You can usually count on Al to jump in and bemoan the rekindling of the "Oil Wars".  There are probably dozens of threads on here about this same subject, with all the same answers being given.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

thecfarm

He's been playing with oil and saws longer than I have. I listen to him.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

martyinmi

Quote from: thecfarm on April 27, 2014, 08:01:34 PM
He's been playing with oil and saw longer than I have. I listen to him.
Sub-Urban legend has it that 'ol unkie Al is rapidly approaching the century mark in years of life on this planet.

The same said legend makes it clear that he attributes his Homo Erectus longevity to his 32:1 ratio of Budweiser to any-cheap-dinosaur-based 2 stroke oil on his Kellogs Corn Flakes every morning for the last 80+ years.

Now, who could argue with that logic??? :D ;D
No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

WmFritz

Quote from: thecfarm on April 27, 2014, 07:16:33 PM
:o  We need a smiley chucking wood into a fire.  :D


Or a pot stirring smiley  :D :D
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Al_Smith

Quote from: thecfarm on April 27, 2014, 07:16:33 PM
martyinmi,where is that Uncle Al guy??  ;D  I needed him on another thread and he never rose to the cause.  :(

I've been up to my behind in alligators here of late .12 hour days that seem endless .

I'm too late I suppose to rile the Amsoil 100 to 1 crowd .Probabley just as well .I do love the oil wars though .I'll sit this out but will stir the pot on the next one which will sure as God made little green apples be right around the corner . :)

ZeroJunk

I have seen many oil related failures. It was related to not putting in any oil at all.

Lorenzo

I don't want to start a conflict here but  I have always been told that the motor dosent dictate the oil to gas ratio, but rather the oil does.  You can run 80 to 1 if the oil is designed for it.


ZeroJunk

All I know is that the guys who make a living woods porting and building race saws suggest high quality 50 to 1 is fine for a stock saw, but they tell  their customers to use 32 to 1 or at the least 40 to 1 in their built saws which turn 1000 or more RPM than stock.  There are a couple of saw models that are prone to bearing failures and the thoughts are that they would have benefited from 32 to 1. Unless you have some special circumstance like that 50 to 1 is fine. Unless you are burning fuel by the barrel I can't see the utility in trying to use any less than that.

Al_Smith

Quote from: ZeroJunk on April 29, 2014, 12:06:21 PM
I have seen many oil related failures. It was related to not putting in any oil at all.
Well yes .I somehow got the wrong squeeze bottle and primed an 850 Mac engine with straight gas . It probabley ran for 30 seconds before it hung .A very sad day that was .---you gotta pay attention to what you are doing .

Bandmill Bandit

I used to prime ALL my snowmobile racing engines with raw gas in a squeeze bottle and never had a problem HOWEVER to be fair most got a tear down and refurb "as required" after each week end of racing. We ran the BelRay full synthetic 50 to 1 with a 10 15 or 20 percent nitro mix and in the super mods we ran methanol/nitro and 40 to 1 of the BelRay.

My chain saws arent stock but all I have done is ported in and out and did minor tweak to port timing so it kinda like a super stock engine.

Ive been running belray for so long I didnt know there were other 2 cycle oils left in the market.  ;D ;D
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Al_Smith

I don't get real fussy about the oil brand .It's usually at 32 to 1 ratio though .I've even ran Stihl ultra but at approx 32 to 1 .

Truth be known you could probabley get by with SAE 30 WT oil at 16-20 to one .It would smoke a tad bit though .That's the way we did it back in the 60's ,boat motor gas .

John Mc

Al, you know a whole lot more about this stuff than I do, but I would not be using mix oil made for marine engines these days. Boat motors are water cooled engines, and run  lot cooler (and probably more even temperatures) than an air-cooled chainsaw engine. They also typically aren't running at 13,000+ RPMs. Maybe t would work out OK, but not a chance I'm willing to take
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Chop Shop

Quote from: John Mc on April 30, 2014, 10:26:09 AM
Al, you know a whole lot more about this stuff than I do, but I would not be using mix oil made for marine engines these days. Boat motors are water cooled engines, and run  lot cooler (and probably more even temperatures) than an air-cooled chainsaw engine. They also typically aren't running at 13,000+ RPMs. Maybe t would work out OK, but not a chance I'm willing to take

Anything cooled with lake water is going to have a very cool block/cyl/head but a very hot piston/crank.

Air coolers and water coolers dont mix when it comes to oil.

We run bigblock drag boats and the oil temps get hotter than normal and the block is only warm to touch.  Way different bearing clearance specs than a normal automotive engine.

Al_Smith

Motor oil would work in a pinch .Now I don't think it would be a good practice though .

A majority if not all premixed marine gas is 50 to 1 .Now weather marine gas is harmfull to a two cycle air cooled engine is a further debate issue in the never ending saga of the oil wars .I don't know myself ,haven't bought gas at a marina in decades ,boatless .

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