electric winch.....what kind of battery ???

roger 4400 · April 27, 2014, 08:27:41 AM

Hi everyone.
I bought a log loader that I will pull with my tractor. There is no loader on the trailer to put the logs in ( too expensive for the moment ....maybe later).
I want to buy a 4 or 5 tons electric winch to pull the logs by the back or by the side using a pulley. I do not want to use the tractor battery so I think buying a battery that will give power to the winch.
1) will a battery will have enough power to pull logs for some time, maybe 10 to 20- logs in a day ?
2) Do I need a car battery or a deep discharge battery like the one on electric motor for boats ?
3) are those electric winches are reliable.....they can fit any 2 inches ball receiver so handy, easy to install. I saw a 5 tons winch at Costco (it is a Champion that are the same as Superwinch..) I am aware that hydraulic winches are stronger and a lot tougher but I can put those electric winches anywhere ( front of the tractor, side of the trailer, back of the trailer if stuck the only thing to do is to lock the winch in the 2 in. receiver ) those winch seems more versatile, I will bring the battery with *alligator clips * and this will be O"K".....I can also bring the winch in the sawmill shed to pull the logs on the mill.....The biggest logs are 20 in X 16 ft pines, so near 1000 pounds.
So I need your experiences with those electric winches and is the idea of carrying a battery not connected to any alternator will have enough power for that kind of logging..( I will charge it every night) Thank you, have a nice day. Roger

chester_tree _farmah · April 27, 2014, 08:41:25 AM

I would think to have any hope of having it last long enough u want deep cell marine but winches use a lot more power than trolling motors. Wouldn't take much to wire it to charge off the tractor. Wire up like a camper trailer. A quick connect plug etc.

BargeMonkey · April 27, 2014, 04:48:46 PM

You could wire it right into charge, just check and see what your tractors set up for, and what the winch solenoid is calling for, 24vdc will work alot better. I just saw a local guy make a nice winch set up for his tractor will an old winch off a wrecker truck, that seems alot nicer for what your planning to do.

shinnlinger · April 27, 2014, 05:13:49 PM

Barge monkey,

We need pics! As far as battery's RV type for sure and two 6 volt in series even better. As others have said, connecting to vehicle charging system is a good idea also.

BargeMonkey · April 27, 2014, 05:23:36 PM

Quote from: shinnlinger on April 27, 2014, 05:13:49 PM
Barge monkey,

We need pics! As far as battery's RV type for sure and two 6 volt in series even better. As others have said, connecting to vehicle charging system is a good idea also.

I should have grabbed a picture that day, he made a very nice one, PTO behind his TC40 tractor. Had chain hooks, fareleads, I think he said he might have 500 into it.

John Mc · April 27, 2014, 06:02:30 PM

A couple of things to consider:

A lot of electric winches (especially the less expensive ones) have a very low duty cycle. You can pull for a little bit, but then you have to let them cool for a significant period. Something to look in to if you are planning on longer pulls, or frequent pulls without much waiting time in between.

Lead-acid batteries hate being discharged. The deeper you discharge them, the more quickly you will ruin them. Even if it's a deep cycle battery, if you are doing more than a couple hard pulls with them, you will definitely want to have it hooked in to your tractor's charging system.

ozarkgem · April 27, 2014, 06:50:28 PM

Quote from: roger 4400 on April 27, 2014, 08:27:41 AM
Hi everyone.
I bought a log loader that I will pull with my tractor. There is no loader on the trailer to put the logs in ( too expensive for the moment ....maybe later).
I want to buy a 4 or 5 tons electric winch to pull the logs by the back or by the side using a pulley. I do not want to use the tractor battery so I think buying a battery that will give power to the winch.
1) will a battery will have enough power to pull logs for some time, maybe 10 to 20- logs in a day ?
2) Do I need a car battery or a deep discharge battery like the one on electric motor for boats ?
3) are those electric winches are reliable.....they can fit any 2 inches ball receiver so handy, easy to install. I saw a 5 tons winch at Costco (it is a Champion that are the same as Superwinch..) I am aware that hydraulic winches are stronger and a lot tougher but I can put those electric winches anywhere ( front of the tractor, side of the trailer, back of the trailer if stuck the only thing to do is to lock the winch in the 2 in. receiver ) those winch seems more versatile, I will bring the battery with *alligator clips * and this will be O"K".....I can also bring the winch in the sawmill shed to pull the logs on the mill.....The biggest logs are 20 in X 16 ft pines, so near 1000 pounds.
So I need your experiences with those electric winches and is the idea of carrying a battery not connected to any alternator will have enough power for that kind of logging..( I will charge it every night) Thank you, have a nice day. Roger

You will want to use 6 volt deep cycle like golf cart batteries. If you don't have a real high quality electric winch I would guess you will burn it out pretty quick. So you have the expense of the winch and the batteries. I doubt the tractor charging system would keep up with the draw on the batteries. You probably don't have that big of a system. Look at the draw on the winch. Another option would be a 5 hp gas motor and a hyd pump and winch. a little more up front but cheaper in the long run.

Birchwood Logging · April 27, 2014, 08:43:38 PM

A chain saw winch not for sure if that's the name of them but they are a 2 stroke gas powered portable winch you might look at Lewis winches

warren46 · April 28, 2014, 07:47:31 AM

I have a winch on a trailer that I use for hauling logs. I have loaded a 34" diameter 18' red oak log dragging it up a ramp. I ran #2 automotive stranded wire from the battery of my pick up to a plug mounted on the trucks bumper. (The plug is the same kind used by AAA tow trucks to connect jumper cables.) Since the use of the winch is very intermittent the trucks charging system keeps up very nicely with just the trucks battery. I suspect the same would be true for a most tractors. The plug and wire can be purchased at most auto parts stores.

luvmexfood · April 28, 2014, 08:56:57 AM

I do basically the same as Warren46 but instead of running the wire which I was afraid would get drug off in a field I purchased a pair of long #2 heavy duty jumper cables for about 40 bucks and when I want to winch I simply hook them up to the battery and winch. Takes less than 5 minutes and I have a good set of jumper cables in the mean time. If pulling a lot of heavy logs I will start the truck mid load and let it idle for a few minutes.

And a wireless remote is a must. HF has them for $29.00

Offthebeatenpath · April 28, 2014, 09:05:47 AM

I have used a 9000# Warn winch on a skid steer to pull logs and rocks and I would strongly recommend wiring it to the tractor's battery. Keep the machine running while winching and you shouldn't have to charge the battery overnight if you're only pulling 10-20 logs a day. I have drained my skid steer's battery, but only when winching for hours on end. As was mentioned, buying the best quality winch will give you a longer duty cycle so that you won't overheat it.

It really couldn't be much easier to direct tie into a battery as shown below:

I also have a set of battery cables spliced onto the Warn plug so that I can use any other battery for power as well.

shinnlinger · April 28, 2014, 10:01:10 AM

Most tractor alternaotors can't keep up if the lights are on at an idle vs most PU's have high output alternators, so I would recomend a dedicated winch battery as well

Dave

Offthebeatenpath · April 28, 2014, 10:43:33 AM

I don't really know about tractors- I'm sure you're right Shinlinger. My diesel pickup idylls up automatically to keep from discharging the battery at low idle. That said, if your lights are off and you throttle up, I wouldn't imagine there would be a problem...

John Mc · April 28, 2014, 10:51:58 AM

Quote from: shinnlinger on April 28, 2014, 10:01:10 AM
Most tractor alternaotors can't keep up if the lights are on at an idle vs most PU's have high output alternators, so I would recomend a dedicated winch battery as well

A good thought. Hooking the batteries in parallel would help. I'd also kick the tractor up off of idle. I've never seen a tractor that will automatically idle up to charge the battery. The alternators don't put out much at idle, even a few hundred RPM can make a big difference, and I'd do more than that for a longer or harder pull.

Gary_C · April 28, 2014, 10:59:30 AM

Most of those 12 volt truck accessories like winches and hydraulic power packs are run by 12 volt starter motors and they draw very high currents. So you can't run them any longer than you can run your starter without seriously running down your battery. And you do need a deep cycle battery that is located close to the winch or you will need very heavy cables like like heavy duty jumper cables from your battery.

If you hook the auxillary battery to your truck alternator system like thru your trailer plug, it's not a good idea to run the alternator while you are running your winch as you will overload the lite gauge wires and fuses on your truck. And if you use your alternator to charge your auxillary battery, you will eventually cook your alternator as they are not built as battery chargers.

Here are some numbers to consider. A 12 volt DC starter motor under load can draw between 150 and 200 amps. With a 900 amp hour battery and 150 amp draw, you could theoretically run that starter for six hours to full discharge. But actually you can not fully discharge a battery. In fact when the battery gets down to about 10.5 volts, it's pretty much done. If you go beyond that point, you will ruin the battery quickly. So with a new, fully charged battery, you may get about an hour or 150 amp hours out of that battery before you cause long term problems. And even an hour is problematic because those batteries are really not capable of producing 150 amps for long periods of time and as the voltage drops as you discharge it, the current has to increase to maintain the load.

And then there are the alternators on your vehicle. Most automotive alternators are rated at about 60 amps with very heavy truck alternators at 80-100 amps. So if you need to replace 150 amp hours with a 60 amp alternator, it will take 2.5 hours running at full output to replace that 150 amp hours if there is no other amp draw from your vehicle. And running at full output for that time will cook your alternator. Perhaps not the first time, but later when you least expect it. Alternators are battery maintainers, not battery chargers.

John Mc · April 28, 2014, 11:19:09 AM

If he's just parbuckling to get the logs on, a 4 or 5 ton winch may be overkill. He may want to downsize. He can always use a pulley as a doubler for the heavy loads (though it will slow down the pull).

My tractor alternator is rated at 40 Amps. This is a 33 HP compact tractor. Larger tractors may have larger alternators, but tractors are typically not designed with large electrical loads in mind.

Hopefully, he'll never get down to 150 amp-hour drain on the battery. A typical pull should only be a few minutes, and he'll have some time in between pulls. If a pull lasts more than a few minutes continuous, he'll risk burning out the winch, unless he finds one with a high duty cycle.

pineywoods · April 28, 2014, 11:36:17 AM

Loading logs with an electric winch is an iffy situation at best. I tried most possible combinations, none were satisfactory for more than just an occasional log. Big heavy winch will toast the battery pretty quickly, smaller winch will self destruct. For what a big enough battery will cost, you can go hydraulic if your tractor is so equipped. With a little backyard engineering, a hydraulic winch can be run off the power steering pump on a truck.

Tom the Sawyer · April 28, 2014, 11:43:18 AM

I agree that bigger winches may be overkill. A lot depends on your loading methods. Parbuckling is very efficient - consider that you are using an inclined plane and using the log as a pulley which would essentially double your pulling capacity.

Dragging a log on the ground is probably the least efficient method and therefore places the highest demand on the winch, both in capacity and duration of the pull. Lifting and moving at the same time is pretty efficient although probably not as efficient as parbuckling.

My log loading arch uses an 8000 lb. MileMarker winch and a deep-cycle trolling motor battery (not hooked into the tow vehicle charging system). (My winch was sized to also load a 7500 pound tractor if need be.) It has loaded half a dozen, medium sized logs per trip, for two trips, without noticeably slowing down. When I got home the last time I put it on the charger but it didn't need much of a charge. I have never needed to use a double line pull to load logs up to 4000 lbs. but that is certainly an option, especially if you use a smaller winch. YMMV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNc5ITIFjo

roger 4400 · April 28, 2014, 06:56:37 PM

Thank you all taking time to answer me. The ideal solution would be founding a cheap hydraulic grapple for my trailer.....maybe later. I thank you for sharing your experience. I might do like Tom the Sawyer. If a battery load can handle 2 trailer loads that might suit me. Everyone take care. Roger.

Magicman · April 29, 2014, 02:16:54 PM

I have an 8K MileMarker on my trailer and use a group 27 battery that is in a plastic marine box. I bring it in, charge it overnight, and it is ready to go again. I attach it to the winch with the wingnut connectors.

John Mc · April 29, 2014, 06:03:15 PM

Magicman, Can you give us an idea of how long and hard you are pulling? Are you skidding logs to the trailer with it, or just parbuckling them onto the trailer?

luvmexfood · April 29, 2014, 07:16:05 PM

HF has there 12,000 lb winches on sale this month for $299.00

Magicman · April 29, 2014, 09:54:28 PM

Quote from: John Mc on April 29, 2014, 06:03:15 PMMagicman, Can you give us an idea of how long and hard you are pulling? Are you skidding logs to the trailer with it, or just parbuckling them onto the trailer?

No skidding, just parbuckling. I really do not know how much could be loaded before the battery hesitated, but I have loaded two trailer loads without any problem.

I loaded these one evening and dark caught me, so I unloaded and went back the next morning.

And got these without charging the battery.

This is both loads.

I had no problem loading this 42" Red Oak log, but it made a racket when it hit the trailer bed. I learned to put old tires in the bed to cushion the fall. ;D