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Warning : icky topic

Started by r.man, April 26, 2014, 01:40:05 PM

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r.man

Anybody out there own composting toilets, specifically home made composting ones? I have been reading up on them and I think I am going to switch over an outhouse I have to one and I may try one in my house. Putting in a second bathroom is not a big deal for me and I have been meaning to do it but we are trying to be more eco friendly and one of the big ways anyone can do that is by composting human waste. I have posted a link to one video and there are lots more of them out there. I would suggest to our members that have camps etc with an outhouse that this would allow for an indoor year round facility which makes the building much more desirable for women and children, especially at night. For those of you in black widow spider/scorpion territory I think that this would be a real plus as they can be made bug proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxZmfqKMa-U
This one is the construction of a composting toilet, I would change the design slightly to seal it if I was in an area of dangerous insects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jhFKSjvqX4
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

yukon cornelius

we don't have one but I as well am interested in any real experiences with them. I hope someone here can shed some light on the subject.
It seems I am a coarse thread bolt in a world of fine threaded nuts!

Making a living with a manual mill can be done!

Paul_H

I had a setup like that at the mill a few years ago and as stated,it was odorless and really no ick factor at all.The sawdust from the mobile Dimension mill worked well and I would think sawdust from a bandmill would work well too.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

Also remember hearing the best way to keep flies out of the kitchen is to keep a bucket of crap in the livingroom. :P
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

DeepWoods

We have one at our cabin.  We have never had an odor problem, even with the vent fan off.  It only gets occasional use as we also have a biffy that is used most of the time.  Everything you would ever want to know about composting toilets can be found at  humanurehandbook.com   You can even download the first or second edition for free. 
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

r.man

I have the third edition sitting beside my chair as I type. Have scanned it all and read some parts, mostly about pathogen kill off and other safety aspects of using humanure for food production. Common in some parts of the world and from what I know about bacteria, pathogens and parasites vs temp and time I don't see why it couldn't be used for human food production other than the unwarranted bias that our culture has developed.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

barbender

I think poo smells like it does so you keep your distance, I want a real long distance between it and my food ;) I remember watching a show once where a guy was staying with a remote tribe in India. They had an outhouse that dropped down to some pigs. That was really direct recycling. They would butcher the outhouse pigs for special occasions-yummee!! :-X
Too many irons in the fire

JohnM

Thanks for posting this rman.  I've been thinking about one of those "real" composting toilets (Sun-Mar, etc) butt I think I like this idea better.  smiley_thumbsup  Gotta download that book. ;D
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

r.man

Back to the top with this one for an update. Between work and other things keeping me busy I haven't had a lot of time to devote to the whole composting thing but I have gotten started. I built a prototype composting toilet from the basic plans online from Joe Jenkins sites. Jenkins is the poster boy for the humanure culture as the best known advocate for it. He has been hands on with this for decades and brings humuor, experience and straight talk to the subject. I have now read the whole " Humanure handbook third edition " and watched numerous how-to videos on the composting side of the process so I am ready to start. My wife and family are on board for a real life test so we are going to install the composting toilet in our downstairs area which as of yet we use like a basement/attic area. It will be the ground floor bathroom and easier to access than going upstairs so it should get 50 percent of the use in the house. I would install one in the upstairs bathroom for a fuller test but there is no room for it. Hopefully by the end of July there will be more story to tell.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

r.man

I just took a big leap forward in my testing, my wife had me remove the only flush toilet in my house and replace it with what we will now call a sawdust toilet. This name is more fitting since no composting is achieved in the actual pail receptacle. This will certainly speed up the testing and I now have to move forward with a compost area at our rural property. I would prefer to do the composting here at our house lot but it is very narrow so I will start out at the other property until I am comfortable with the procedure.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

JohnM

Very interested in your experiment, rman.  Keep the updates coming. :) :P
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

r.man

Here we are 6 days without a flush toilet and we couldn't be happier. Absolutely no bad odours and as a bonus the bathroom has a slight sawdust aroma. We have switched the cat to sawdust as well and after a half day of uncertainty on her part everything is good again. This also allows us to deposit the cat litter in as well so while we have gained a weekly chore we have simplified a bi-weekly one. All three of us have found the changover to be simple and trouble free. I will be bearing the brunt of the extra work involved in this experiment in ethical waste management but it is simple enough and it is always satisfying knowing you are doing good. For those of you who might be interested I will include a link to Joe Jenkins book " The Humanure Handbook ". This is an invaluable tool to get started and well worth the modest price. A few basic facts for the mildly curious about my experience so far. The "toilet" is a wooden frame built to purpose to support a wooden toilet seat at the top of a five gallon pail. The main reason to use a wooden seat is because the little feet need to be rotated 90 degrees to go around the pail and wooden seats use plastic feet in drilled holes. Plastic seats use molded feet that can't be moved. When a fresh pail is placed in the frame it has about 2 inches of sawdust put in the bottom to start and then about 1 cup of sawdust is used for cover after every use. When the pail is 2/3 or so full a lid is snapped on and a fresh pail is put in. We are using a fresh pail every 2 days with three adults and the fairly full pails weigh about 25 lbs. I expect we will get to 1 pail per adult per week when we get more comfortable with the system and when we switch to hardwood sawdust. So far so good and I will update next week when I have built the compost bin and started composting.
http://humanurehandbook.com/
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

JohnM

Thanks for the update, rman, much like your bathroom it didn't stink! ;) ;D  As I said we're very interested in going this route but it won't be this summer, too many irons in the fire plus a nearly two year old. :-\  Gives me time to get and read Joe's book. :P ;D

Quote from: r.man on July 07, 2014, 09:27:50 PM
...and then about 1 cup of sawdust is used for cover after every use.
Curious, does that include #1?  Would assume so but maybe not. ???
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

r.man

No divertor, everything goes in including toilet paper. When the roll is empty throw that in too. Compost likes to be damp so you don't want to actually dry anything out. In the compost pile any extra liquid will sort itself out but too dry compost will stall until moisture is added. Joe Jenkins says that his compost always rises in temp after a rain. I am not to that point yet but will be soon, I am running out of pails.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

r.man

I have been keeping my wife updated on my posts and she frequently sees things differently and often correctly where I haven't. John asked if using about a cup of cover included #1 and I answered that there was no divertor in the system to separate urine. My wife pointed out that the question was actually whether cover material was needed after urination and the answer is that it depends. If sawdust was running low, probably not, if the pail seems overly damp probably yes, if there is odour present, definitely yes. I don't always use a cup but I always use some and at least once I have used two cups because I think someone else had been stingy with the cover.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

r.man

So interestingly enough I haven't built my first compost bin yet but I have started composting. It was a rainy day on Tuesday July 8th and that was the day I had planned to build and commission the first compost bin. Got the site brush hogged and it started to rain so I put down my bio sponge ( hay ), dumped the weeks worth of future compost, covered with the cover material, more hay and protected the pile with a piece of fence wire. I am going to build the bin around the modest pile that is now happily ( I assume ) starting to compost. I get my compost thermometer today or tomorrow so I will be able to tell if I have enough mass to start heating. For those of you interested in reading more facts, problems etc with this solution to human waste disposal the Forestry Forum equivalent is  http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/messages/
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

r.man

A quick update, mostly because when I am reading experience topics I like periodic updates so I will lead by example, I have now had the compost pile going for over a week and there is absolutely no odour at or near it. I have added once since starting and have now adjusted my cycle to Sunday for emptying pails, adding to the compost and cleaning the pails. I had read that there should be no odour at the sawdust toilet or the compost pile and so far I can verify that to be true. As to odour while dumping the pails the same is basically true then as well. The second time was on a still sunny day and the whole process is over in about 15 minutes from walking up to the compost until the pile is recovered and the pails are washed and drying in the sun. During that time there was an odour but it was wet uncovered hay from the compost cover material. I am very happy with my results and I think it is time well spent.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

yukon cornelius

thanks for the update! Its a simple process! im glad its working out for you!
It seems I am a coarse thread bolt in a world of fine threaded nuts!

Making a living with a manual mill can be done!

r.man

Another quick update, today my compost pile was 107 F. This is the highest I have seen it yet and indicates to me that I am making progress and doing everything at least moderately right. Hoping for higher compost temps in the next couple of days.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

JohnM

Quote from: r.man on July 22, 2014, 02:02:44 PM
Another quick update, today my compost pile was 107 F. This is the highest I have seen it yet and indicates to me that I am making progress and doing everything at least moderately right. Hoping for higher compost temps in the next couple of days.
What is the optimal temp in the pile and how long does it need to stay at that temp to be considered 'done'?  Still following along and enjoying the updates. :)
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

r.man

JohnM that is a good question and the short answer is that I don't know yet. I have been doing some research but there is a lot of information to dig through. I have read that 122 F for a day should give a complete kill off in the compost but the time needed changes with the temperature so if you only achieve 115 but you keep it for 36 hrs you may achieve the same kill rate. The other thing to consider is longer aging times which will kill with even lower temps. Joe Jenkins recommends an aging period of one year after the last addition to the pile and longer if circumstances suggest it. I expect that this is more time than necessary and testing could be done to check but it is a handy time interval that fits in well with most peoples use of the compost and the extra time won't hurt. To date I have not found one inaccuracy or exaggeration in the Joe Jenkins book and I don't expect to.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

r.man

This might be way to get rid of some sawdust for some of you guys that cut stationary and don't have a market for it. This use will not be prejudicial to the bark being mixed in.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_DQyO2CPV0#t=285
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Ljohnsaw

This is very interesting.  I'm amazed that that video was filmed in California!  I'm surprised that no one got cited by the health department.  I wanted to do a compost toilet (a self-contained one) for my cabin but the county said NO WAY.  So I had to put in a septic tank and leach field.  Did it myself (mostly) so it wasn't too expensive but very time consuming.  And with flush toilets, you need water - so the county requires a well as well.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

r.man

In my township the building department has just taken over septic inspection duties after it being handled by the local health department for at least a decade. One of the conditions for getting a building permit here is having approval for a septic system first but I am about to ask about alternative solutions. Easier to do now when I have an almost new septic system at my house and don't need a building permit. I would like many of the rules eased or eliminated here but at the top of the list are allowing alternative septic options and eliminating the minimum square footage house/cottage size. These two go hand in hand with a more back to the land, small carbon footprint lifestyle. I will now go out and hug a tree.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

r.man

Just an update since I was getting some positive feedback on this system and the details involved. It is now 2 and 1/2 months since we had a flush toilet in the house and we still prefer our new system. The majority of the extra work with this system does fall to me but I timed it and it works out to about 40 minutes total per week. I spend a leisurely 12 to 15 at the compost pile each week and a pail change/sawdust fill at the house takes about 5 minutes 4 times a week. I threw in 5 extra minutes to get the pails to the compost for the 40 total. I have had a compost temp in the high range now at 132 F and I attribute this to reaching a decent mass of material. Still very happy with the change and like an ex smoker can't say enough good things about it and wonder why everyone else doesn't change as well.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

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