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White pine sawing issues

Started by moosehunter, April 25, 2014, 07:56:45 AM

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moosehunter

I have about 15000 bf of white pine I am sawing, mostly 8x8 cants for logs for our log home walls with a lots of 2x material as a bonus. I am getting a ripple in the cut. It goes diagonally across and in the direction of the cut and is minor but bugs me that I can not figure out what is causing it. Looks like ripples in a pond when you through a small stone in. I have tried 10 deg  blades, 4 deg blades, new B-57 belts, running water/ soap lube wide open, have tried blade tension from minimum to 3000 psi. The pitch is not building up on the blades, all bearings seem smooth with no looseness. When I first started this job I was not having this problem. Something changed. Any thoughts?
mh
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days".    Ray Wylie Hubbard

drobertson

I got a few of these at random times the last few days,  they start right at knots then the blade settles back down.  I was thinking it is related to the knots some how.  Going to check the blade clearance today.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

I occasionally see that pattern but I have never tried to track down what actually causes it.  It would be difficult to remember what might have happened on your previous cut where it showed up.  That plus since it is inside of the kerf, you can not see it happening.

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

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justallan1

I get this around any knots or if I slow down for a knot coming. On my little mill I have to slow down for the knots and especially on anything more than 12-14" wide. I find it less with a new saw on, but it still happens.

Allan

Sawyer697

I use 10 Degree WM Blades and use there resharp service.
1997 LTHD40G24 WM Mill. 640 Bobcat. 555 ford Backhoe, Husky 365XP
40 Acres Foresty
Custom Sawing in Geauga and Lake County
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Dave Shepard

Probably sawing too slow. If it's the pattern I'm thinking of, it usually shows up at the beginning of the cut.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

shinnlinger

Knots and duller bands seem to casue this for me. 
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

barbender

I get that from too slow of a feed rate.
Too many irons in the fire

Wisconsintimber

Yeah I have seen this before.  Like others have said, usually right at the beginning of a cut or cutting wide stuff(14") or wider.  Has normally been minor for me.

Remle

Please take my comment's with a grain of salt. Most of what I saw is white pine and spruce (spruce being worse for me than WP). Even with the de-barker I find, I need to change the blades more often as the knots seem to decrease the set on bottom of the blade more than on the top and they dull quicker as well. So suggest checking the set to see if it is equal on both sides next time it occurs. The other thing and it has been discussed in length on here is, which way are you sawing the log. I saw but logs from the stump end up and all others from the top down given the choice, that works best for me. So next time it happens, you might try turning the log end for end before making any other adjustments just for comparison.. just saying knots are a pain.

drobertson

I did a complete blade swap today, went with Kasco, Wood max,  all I have to say is they are worth a try. .045-7/8X 158"  real signs of a very promising productive blade.  Clearance was good, as was the alignment. so I switched for the heck of it.  Glad I did.   too slow can cause issues at times, but the same can be said about pushing through a good knot,  Once it is done, it is done, two boards with variation. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

moosehunter

Some more info to answer some suggestions posted. Feed rate does not matter, WM NE suggested that I needed to speed up the feed rate - pattern remained the same. This is similar to the pattern that you see at the beginning of a cut but more space between the highs and lows. Both the 7 and 10 deg blades are WM resharp. I am getting the pattern cutting wide boards or edging 2xs.
I have seen this before but it usually goes away after changing the blade. I am getting it now on almost every cut. I found pine snot/sawdust built up in the pulleys under the v-belts and cleaned it out. Still doing it.
Going on a road job to do walnut this weekend, hope it is only the white pine that I have this trouble with!
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days".    Ray Wylie Hubbard

drobertson

I had my clearance set at .005 on the bottom guides for the .042 blades,  thought about adjusting the clearance, then put on the .045's, all cleared up. not sure if this is it or not, but a good blade is critical, just a note, the others were new and sharp.  I'm still of the opinion that blade clearance is pretty important.  It should be said, that I am speaking of true blue, straight lumber,  smooth cuts.  the pine just before this load cut straight as a string, this stuff is nice, just different.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

bandmiller2

I really don't know, I get it once in a wile and it seems to go away after a band change. I have long suspected one or more teeth set too much and it sets up a resonance that causes the washboard. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

drobertson

I just remembered, the moveable blade guide could be a touch loose on one of the steel v-pulley's.  The other thing could be the blade guide on the top side, these are to keep down the oscillations of the band too.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

giant splinter

I have only seen this pattern a couple times and agree that it is rare when it happens, is almost always at the beginning of the cut, on an angle that diagonals the common pattern that is left by the bandsaw blade. It does leave a wave pattern and shows up on the upper and lower faces in the kerf, the  mill has a slight change in the sound that the band puts out when its happening and once you get moving away from the entry point of the kerf the sound changes and returns to the more common sound that we are used to. If you are off bearing from the end of the mill you may not even see the wave pattern till you go use or trim the board as the wave pattern is in the kerf, if you use a board return you are less likely to spot this pattern on the board unless you have an off bearer that is aware of this wave pattern and looking closely at the boards he is stacking and stickering. When the blades start dulling we seem to notice more problems and start thinking "what else might be causing this?" When setting up your mill or if you need to move it to a different spot on the same job its important to set the mill up and check the deck to see that you have it set up correctly and that all the bunks are lined up straight. Things can change during the course of a day and your setup might need an adjustment or at least a check to see if for example one of the outriggers is not snug or maybe something was effected buy a log that slammed onto your deck.
I hope someone solves this problem at some point here, its the kind of thing that you may not even know happened till you go to use the board and the wave shows up out of nowhere ...... not sure it matters in some cases but it never the less is not what you wanted your lumber to look like.
roll with it

pineywoods

Ripples (not waves) on a cut are usually the result of the blade slowing down. Most of the time because the drive belt is slipping, or the blade is slipping on the drive wheel.. Using diesel or too much soap ? Mount a bicycle speedometer on the idler wheel to see this happening.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Peter Drouin

 

 


Is this what you're talking about?
See the waves.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

drobertson

Not sure if this is the pattern you are experiencing or not, but this is what I have seen on at random times.

  

 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

moosehunter

Peter's pic is exactly what I am seeing!
I was thinking today when I moved my mill that this may have started the last time I set it up. There is a LOT of mud. So much that we had to build a board walk out of slab wood so we could move around. When I get back from this road job I will set back up in my mill shed and see if the problem is still there. Thanks for the thoughts.
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days".    Ray Wylie Hubbard

Peter Drouin

It's the blade, something about blade harmonics. Getting a blade to do that is like winning the lottery. I have been sawing with a Wood Mizer and Wood Mizer blades for over 25 years and it has only happened 2 or 3 times. :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Tom the Sawyer

It happened to me about a year ago.  Sawed about 20 logs that day, logs before and after on the same band were fine, one ash log had the ripple.  Lots of suggestions but never was able to arrive a certain factor that caused it.  It did plane out of the boards.



 
say_what
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

drobertson

I know a few hog farmers that would love that finish! maybe even in some stock trailers.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

moosehunter

Tom the Sawyer that is what I am seeing only your example is worse! Sawed some walnut for a customer yesterday, other than 3 nails and two ruined blades they sawed out perfectly.
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days".    Ray Wylie Hubbard

drobertson

Does this mean it was more the wood grain than anything to do with blades, guides, and the mill in general?
Just asking,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

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