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square hewn log notching.....

Started by Papa, April 21, 2014, 01:59:00 PM

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Frankw

OK, I think I got it Jon, but did not do that saddle cut as I don't understand it. Below a picture of my exercise with 1" rods. How do you allign the stacking to keep the corners perfectly vertical (square)? I measured the cut from the corners but allignment is not so great.


  

 
Frank

January 12, Note that the model is upside down and that I plan to face the grooves and notches downward to avoid water accumulation, I will also cut the saddles before the notching and will post a new picture of the model later (Thanks Furby).

jander3


Frankw

Jon
I can see 2 pictures that I posted

Frank

Jim_Rogers

Re-trim all ends after stacking to make them all the same, if you wish.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

jander3

I agree with Jim.

I trimmed these in the log yard where I built the walls to get rid of the overhang.  On this building, once I had the roof line on the structure, I cut the ends again to make  sure the log ends were under the roof.  The log you select for the wall will likely be 2'-4' longer than your planned final length. This gives you some room to move the log for best fit and allows you to trim the ends.

 

In northern Minnesota, there are many cabins with a more random log end pattern.

 



Frankw

Thanks Jim & Jon, I am ready to build my sauna now (3 x 3.5 meter inside). I may still cut those saddles at the sides of my logs before the scribing and notching but I find that the nothing looks nicer without those saddles.
Thanks for your help and when I start my project I will upload pictures of the different stages to this forum. Still trying to find out how to build a brick wood fire stove for the sauna.

Frank

Frankw

 

 

2nd excercise with notching facing down and saddle cuts

Frankw

I will anchor the base to my foundation with iron bars but I have not yet thought of a good way to connect the roof frame/rafters to the top log, I don't want to use any metal if possible. But that is still a long way down the road and will worry about that later....

 

jander3

Nice.  This is going to save you time when you start your building.

When you cut the logs I would cut the saddles a little narrower on the top (set them a little higher). And they should flare out a bit (the top of the log will have about 2-3" of round log between the saddles.   The saddles extend down to 1" lower than the expected scribe setting.   If you decide to use saddles remember the relief cuts on the notches.

I scribed the rafters and set with a timber screw.   Takes time as each rafter has to be scribed based on the log. I cut the ridge and added a nailer on top, that way I had a consistent dimension to work with on top.


  

  

Frankw

Jon
Do you mean with "offsetting" he saddle cuts to rotate the logs slightly (see arrows picture) before scribing so that the saddle will not fit properly in the notch (only 20%). If so should I rotate the logs in opposite direction as shown on my picture or does that not matter?

Are the saddle cuts of each log exactly opposite of each other (180 degrees) or is the offset done by cutting the saddles 140 degrees from each other instead of rotating the logs?

What is the purpose of not positioning these saddles fully in the notch (not aligned at right angles), this will make the notch cut slightly wider, is that perhaps the reason?

Frank

jander3

Frank,

The diagram below is a bit exaggerated; however, it should give you an idea of what I mean by saddle offset.  Your saddles look like they are cut so they are lined up on a vertical plane. Saddles should be offset like below.  This will result in a notch that is wider on the bottom and narrower at the top. The notch edges should bite into the saddle.  As your building settles over time, the notch gets tighter. 



 

When you cut the saddles into the log I found that with the log set up on your stumps, I rotate the log like you have in your photos and cut out the saddle with the top of the chainsaw bar.

I see that you have lateral grooves cut in the log, if you plan to go full scribe, read up on over scribe settings.  You increase the  scribe settings you used for the notch when you scribe the lateral grooves and flyways.  That way all the weight is on the notch when you put the log on the building. As things tighten up and shrink, the notch gets tighter and lateral groove meets up with the log below.  As you go higher on the building you cut back a some on the over scribe setting because there is less weight on the top of wall.

 


Frankw

Jon, I can only get a square notch when vertically inserting the upper log in the lower scribed log (picture). When I scribe a trapezoid where the bottom of the notch is larger that the top the upper log won't fit unless you insert the log lateral like a jig saw puzzle but that won't work with the full scribed lateral grooves. Can you show me a diagram (cross section) of your notch that fits the log with the offset saddle cut?

jander3

Try these the notch is scribed to the saddle. The saddle is actually more of a slight oval dish shape cut into the log. The first drawing is a cut away.



  




  

 

Frankw

I think I got it figured out, I had the saddle and the notch overlapping (same place) while I now have the saddles above the notch). This results in a V type notch cut without any gaps (see pictures). I was trying to scribe the full log rather than the smallest part of the saddle as I understood that the notch cut should be wider in the log than on the edge which of course is impossible (jig saw puzzle). The shape of the nothches (cut) are now opposite from what I had before; a V type cut with the smaller width in the log and much wider at the edge of the log. I will make the saddles 

  smaller and higher above the notch cuts (see yellow oval on my second drawing).

Frank

  

  

  

  

  

 

jander3

Yes.  You have it now!   Next step over scribe the lateral groove.   When you get a chance try cutting a few saddles and notches on some scrape wood with a chain saw or axe.

Frankw

Update on my sauna cabin project: We cut 15 medium pine trees and 15 Nipa palms for the thached roof (30 more Nipas to go), cut lumber and made the sauna door. Meanwhile the wood burning heater arrived from China and the sauna stones from Finland. Now ready to start cutting saddles.

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 

Frankw

Exercise with 10" real lumber, my first groove, saddles and notch

Frank

  

  

  

 

jander3

Very nice.  Way better than the first notch I cut.  I guess the modeling helped you figure out what to expect.

Maybe consider...

Score the notch with  a chiesel before your cut it to eliminate the tearout.

Put in a small relief cut at the top of your notch.

You can smooth out the saddles by brushing with your chain saw after you cut it.



ozarkgem

Quote from: jander3 on January 15, 2015, 07:23:59 PM
Nice.  This is going to save you time when you start your building.

When you cut the logs I would cut the saddles a little narrower on the top (set them a little higher). And they should flare out a bit (the top of the log will have about 2-3" of round log between the saddles.   The saddles extend down to 1" lower than the expected scribe setting.   If you decide to use saddles remember the relief cuts on the notches.

I scribed the rafters and set with a timber screw.   Takes time as each rafter has to be scribed based on the log. I cut the ridge and added a nailer on top, that way I had a consistent dimension to work with on top.


  

 
How are you sealing between the rafters setting on the exterior wall?
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Frankw

Week 3 into the sauna project: Completed the foundation, cut the saddles and constructed

  the first 2 layers. The 3 half members at the bottom are half notched into the long side members, the first layer is anchored to the 10mm round bars of the foundation. Scribing of the lateral grooves is a challenge as the lumber is irregular in width and shape (crooked) but I kept the first 2 grooves deep (kept all weight on the notches). I am using a 10m level tube/hose and charcoal to chalk the bottom member and to mark where it touches the groove of the upper member, anything else does not work.

  

  

  

 

Frankw

Quote from: jander3 on February 16, 2015, 09:56:25 AM
Very nice.  Way better than the first notch I cut.  I guess the modeling helped you figure out what to expect.

Maybe consider...

Score the notch with  a chiesel before your cut it to eliminate the tearout.

Put in a small relief cut at the top of your notch.

You can smooth out the saddles by brushing with your chain saw after you cut it.

5th week into the sauna cabin project (50%) and 2 more months to go to complete (estimate). Finished 5 levels out of 10..

 

Frankw

Quote from: Frankw on March 15, 2015, 06:56:13 PM
Quote from: jander3 on February 16, 2015, 09:56:25 AM
Very nice.  Way better than the first notch I cut.  I guess the modeling helped you figure out what to expect.

Maybe consider...

Score the notch with  a chiesel before your cut it to eliminate the tearout.

Put in a small relief cut at the top of your notch.

You can smooth out the saddles by brushing with your chain saw after you cut it.

5th week into the sauna cabin project (50%) and 2 more months to go to complete (estimate). Finished 5 levels out of 10..

 

Quote from: Frankw on March 15, 2015, 06:56:13 PM
Quote from: jander3 on February 16, 2015, 09:56:25 AM
Very nice.  Way better than the first notch I cut.  I guess the modeling helped you figure out what to expect.

Maybe consider...

Score the notch with  a chiesel before your cut it to eliminate the tearout.

Put in a small relief cut at the top of your notch.

You can smooth out the saddles by brushing with your chain saw after you cut it.

5th week into the sauna cabin project (50%) and 2 more months to go to complete (estimate). Finished 5 levels out of 10..

 


 

Frankw

2 months gone already, lost one week during the Easter holidays but completed the structure (11 levels) and now doing the flooring. 4x4 trusses on top of reinforced concrete beams and cinder blocks followed with 1x4 T&G planks.

  

 
Got some 5 meter long logs for the roof:

  

  

 

Frankw

Question: How to keep the 3 stacked roof members (gable) on top of the last notched log above the door from falling down before the top (ridge) beam and rafters (2x4) are in place (during the construction). I was planning scaffolding and temporary long 2x2 woods to keep the front and back together. Any tips to the roof construction with 8/12 pitch are welcome, rafters, ridge beam and any other wood scribed or screwed.

Thanks

Frank

jander3

Frank,

Very nice work! 

For the roofing, I've messed with gables and determined, I prefer to install a couple of king posts & ridge in lieu of a stacked log gable. If you extend the roof out to allow a covered porch area, make sure you install screw jacks under the columns to account for settling. I cut a flat on the top log before installing the king; this helps when it is time to close in the gable end.

If you opt for a gable, take the top row off the building, level it up on the ground and build the gable at waist level. Then, install on the building.  A gable would get drilled and pegged with one inch pegs or drive some timber screws home on each round. 

I can't tell from your photos, did you cut some keyways for the door frame to allow for settling?




  

  



  

  

 



 

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