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sour gum

Started by hackberry jake, April 19, 2014, 06:36:28 PM

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hackberry jake

My neighbor had a long dead sweet sour gum that was dangerously close to his house. He asked me to drop it for him. I dropped it and noticed the wood had a funny purple color. He gave me the butt log and here is what I found.


 
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EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Ocklawahaboy

Pretty color.  What did you cut out of that?

Larry

At the bottom of the picture looks almost like ambrosia.  In the center I see a little orange which indicates to me the first stage of rot and that tracks with the spalt I see in the sapwood.

Hard to tell from a picture...and iffen I'm wrong I can always blame it on the picture. :D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

ellmoe

   That is called red gum. There is a picture on the forum of a red gum bench posted by Tom. The white portion is called "sap gum" and the heart, when present, is "red gum", sometimes sold as a faux European walnut. I have a finished red gum board in a display of various species of wood we saw. Whenever a customer asks, "what kind of wood is that!", I don't even look anymore, I just say red gum. It  definitely has a striking appearance. It also dies to look like fried bacon! (A perfect description borrowed from some unknown forum member.
Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

hackberry jake

I milled this log into 1/2" paneling. Looks more like kinlin to me.


 

  
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Magicman

 :o  Looks like it is kin to some other "gummery" that I know.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

isawlogs

 I've some elm that ressembles that  ::) 
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Planman1954

I cut a lot of 1/2" thick by 12" wide Southern yellow Pine. It will cup if put in sunlight. I try to sticker it pronto in my kiln with spacers no more the 24" oc. After they dry, they seem to hold their shape fairly well. There will be some that resemble yours though! After close nailing with common type nails with a head, I've not had too much of a problem after installation.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

WDH

That sweetgum is showing its spiral grain dark side  :).  If you don't quartersaw it, it can be impossible to use except as kinlin.  The first flat sawn boards off the cant on all faces usually twist and warp very badly, so it is best to slab a little heavy.  Pretty, but pretty can be devilish, too, but I will not delve too deeply into that  :-X.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Quote from: hackberry jake on May 07, 2014, 01:03:52 PM
I milled this log into 1/2" paneling. Looks more like kinlin to me.

The second picture of the wavy wood made me hungry, reminded me of fried pork skins. :D
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WDH

I bet that they taste better than they look  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: isawlogs on May 07, 2014, 01:40:52 PM
I've some elm that ressembles that  ::)

Me too. :(
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Red and sap gum are known to have almost uncontrollable warping tendency in drying.  The literature is full of things that have been tried to stop the warp, but in over 100 years, nothing has worked well.  It warps worse than syp and elm.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

hackberry jake

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on May 11, 2014, 12:34:33 AM
Red and sap gum are known to have almost uncontrollable warping tendency in drying.  The literature is full of things that have been tried to stop the warp, but in over 100 years, nothing has worked well.  It warps worse than syp and elm.
did you mean syc and elm? Syp is southern yellow pine right?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Syp (southern yellow pine) especially from small logs likes to warp due to juvenile wood, compression wood and spiral grain.  I think it is the worst softwood. 

Gum is the worst hardwood with American elm being second in common commercial hardwoods native the North America.

This is not an official rating, but is my experience.  Do you think sycamore should be near the top of the list too?
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

NMFP

At the school I teach at, we just sawed a 30" mulberry. Pretty yellow wood but FULL of tension.  The cant when we were done was tapered about 3" end to end and had almost a 45 degree twist .

Very nice wood but not the best for dimensional stability. 

Seems as we always try to saw things that really should be left to the wood stove.

Okrafarmer

It's been my experience that:

1. Within any species, there are some logs with a lot of tension and some without
2. Some species are more inclined to tension than others
3. The smaller the log, or the crookeder the log, the more trouble you will have with it.
4. quartersawing large logs helps to keep things less warped
5. When a big old piece of wood decides it's going to twist, there's not a lot you can do.

My worst species for warping and twisting are:

1. Persimmon
2. Cherry
3. Sycamore (or less)
4. Sweetgum
5. I have never tried elm.
6. Tulip poplar
7. SYP (especially Virginia Pine)
8. Red Maple\

But it really depends on the quality of the log in the first place.

I've never had much trouble with black gum. It usually mills out well and dries well.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

hackberry jake

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on May 11, 2014, 06:53:31 AM
Syp (southern yellow pine) especially from small logs likes to warp due to juvenile wood, compression wood and spiral grain.  I think it is the worst softwood. 

Gum is the worst hardwood with American elm being second in common commercial hardwoods native the North America.

This is not an official rating, but is my experience.  Do you think sycamore should be near the top of the list too?
I have had some syp drying issues, but I thought it had a pretty good name for itself overall. its good to know I'm not the only one. I have had some sycamore moving but not too awefully bad. Where is hackberry rated on your list?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Magicman

You may occasionally have an odd SYP log that gives you grief, but not enough to be concerned about.

We had only one log that had stress issues on the entire dablack Goodwill Sawing project.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

hackberry jake

Stress when cutting and warpage are two different animals. The sweet gum had zero stress in it when I was cutting it on the mill. Some people just "saws em and leaves em" and dont have to worry about drying  ;D
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

JB Griffin

Ain't Gum fun Jake.  :D
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

hackberry jake

https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: hackberry jake on May 11, 2014, 11:34:29 PM
Some people just "saws em and leaves em" and dont have to worry about drying  ;D

But some sure don't cut them 1/2" thick and expect it to dry flat with out adding weight to the stack ;D
If you want veneer start with a steam tunnel to soften the log, chuck it up in the lathe and peal it thin, clip out the bad spots, patch knots, it is basicly that simple but sawing 1/2" well it does what yours did. 
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

WDH

My worst miscreants have been sweetgum, hackberry, flatsawn sycamore, and persimmon.  Keeping the juvenile wood in the center of wide boards helps a great deal in minimizing drying problems in SYP. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

Don't forget to add in elm, hickory/pecan ( smiley_devil) and the dreaded red gum eucalyptus. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Okrafarmer

Let's be fully sure that everyone understands-- sweetgum and sour gum are two entirely different animals plants. It's not just the taste that's different, they are largely unrelated. Sour gum is generally a better actor than sweetgum, but then again you need to expect different things from them.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

hackberry jake

Quote from: Okrafarmer on May 13, 2014, 08:45:29 AM
Let's be fully sure that everyone understands-- sweetgum and sour gum are two entirely different animals plants. It's not just the taste that's different, they are largely unrelated. Sour gum is generally a better actor than sweetgum, but then again you need to expect different things from them.
and never cut either one of them less than an inch thick... unless you "put it up green".
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

ely

ive seen entire barns that were built of gum, and the nailed them up while they were cutting the logs. they dried reasonably straight... I can now 70 plus years later pull the nails and use the wood for anything. my dad says a lot of times water would run off the walls of the barns for a day or so.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Just in case someone does not know the different wood names:

The southern sweet gum tree (with those prickly balls for fruit) is Liquidambar styraciflua.  The sapwood is white and is sold as sap gum; the heartwood is reddish and sold as red gum.  Note that sweet gum does produce an aromatic resin which must be the reason for its name.

Sour gum refers to the black tupelo (also called black gum and sometimes just tupelo, but there are other tupelo species) and is Nyssa sylvatica.  In the Appalachinas, the tree is often called sour gum.  I do not know why "gum" as it is not gummy.  [Extra note of trivia:  In Massachusetts, the tree is called beetlebung, probably because it was used to make a mallet, called a beetle, that was used to hammer in the bung (the plug or stopper) in a barrel.]

Many species of Eucalyptus are called gum trees (such as blue gum).  A common species is Eucalyptus cinerea.  Australia is known for the large population of Eucalyptus trees, but we do have a few in western U.S.   (Trivia:  This is the gum tree that the kookaburra sits in in the (Australian origin) song you might have learned at camp, or your daughter learned in Girl Scouts, etc.  Also, the gum typically smells wonderful (bees love it and the honey is awesome) and is used in medicines, as well as in flower stores' bouquets.)
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

JustinW_NZ

ah Liquidambar - that's the common name for it here in NZ.

yeah, that stuff is pretty awful to dry!

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

hackberry jake

I didn't mean black gum when I called it sour gum. I was just referring to spalted sweet gum. I don't believe the coloring in the log was heartwood (red gum), I believe it was just from the bacteria/fungus living inside the log.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

WDH

It is pretty stuff to be so ornery. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

hackberry jake

Quote from: WDH on May 14, 2014, 07:13:47 AM
It is pretty stuff to be so ornery.
WDH, that saying reminds me of somebody...


 
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

WDH

I never said that you was pretty  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

hackberry jake

Nope, just twisted... grain
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Coach

Hey Jake. If she sees that comment she may just break that guitar over your head.   :D

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