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Cutting Hollow Cookies on WMLT15

Started by gfadvm, April 17, 2014, 06:37:45 PM

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gfadvm

I have some 20" diameter hollow blackjack that a lady asked me to cut 1" cookies from. I need a safe way to clamp these for sawing. My plan is to run some 3" deck screws up through  a piece of 3/4" ply and clamp the ply to the mill. Does this sound secure enough? How many screws would y'all recommend if this is an acceptable way to secure them?

Ocklawahaboy

Sounds good to me.  I don't saw hollow cookies though.  I would be afraid they'd just fall apart.  I would think 3 screws would do it.  I generally just put a 1x6 flat on the bunks and use the cam clamp on my lt40 to hold the piece vertical but pressure from that direction wouldn't be good on the hollow piece.

Delawhere Jack

That should work. Just feed nice and slow.

gfadvm

Thanks guys. I am just thinking I'll get a better/flatter cut with the mill than the chainsaw but want to be safe and not hurt my mill. (I love my mill and have even named her!)

Ocklawahaboy

You will get a better cut, no doubt.   More uniform thickness between the cookies too.

Den-Den

I would be comfortable with 4 of those screws (evenly spaced and into solid wood).
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

WDH

That is how I did it.  I took a long board and screwed the log to the board.  I then used woodworking clamps to clamp the board on the bed with the head and blade of the mill between the clamps.  Cut slow and steady.  I cut cookies for a wedding this way.  All perfectly even. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

WmFritz

Quote from: gfadvm on April 17, 2014, 09:18:43 PM
(I love my mill and have even named her!)

So what's her name?  ??? ???
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

YellowHammer

We did a couple hundred a few weeks ago using an LT40 for a wedding.  I used a notched crosstie against the backstops to clamp the log piece into.  Seemed to work pretty well, didn't have any issues.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=94vRxlxdA4I



YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

beenthere

QuoteI cut cookies for a wedding this way.

What is this, a trend or fad to have wood cookies at weddings?  :) :)

Last week my grand daughter was here and her friend was asking where she could get wood 'cookies' for her wedding. Grand daughter said "sure, grampa can do it".  ;)
So 'ol gramps bucked up a couple white ash logs and they were thrilled. Apparently for a centerpiece at each table to build something on.

Someone write a wedding book that suggests 'cookies' ??
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

YellowHammer

Its the hot new thing, we've done several such jobs.  They actually look pretty good on the table.

A specialty that band mills seem to excel at.  For this batch, the wedding planner says they usually pay $8 to $12 bucks apiece for them, so we gave them a half price discount at $4.50 each.   ;D
Everybody was happy.  It doesn't matter that they will crack, they are considered disposable.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WDH

They are definitely the "In Thing". 

I would cut them for $8 - $12 each all day every day  ;D.

YH,

You can whack them out much faster than me, so I might have to charge $5.50  :D. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

WmFritz

All they need to go along with those wedding cookies, are some of these like Jeff had at last years Pig Roast.

http://aspenware.ca/
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

beenthere

YH
Much, much nicer cutting them on the bandsaw mill, compared to my eyeballing 1½" cookies using the chainsaw.
That is a neat way to clamp a short bolt on the mill to saw them off.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

VT_Forestry

I built these centerpieces for our wedding last May - bottoms were walnut and maple, everything else was pre-commercially thinned pine.  The hole was drilled for flowers, and the table numbers on each centerpiece were done with a wood burner.  Lots of time and effort, but we got lots of compliments on them!  This is them all loaded up ready to head over to the reception

Forester - Newport News Waterworks

gfadvm

Well, I got em cut today! I screwed the hollow log to the floor of my short log jig with 6  3" deck screws and got along fine. The first slice vibrated and scared me but subsequent cuts were vibration free. I like Yellowhammer's notched beam! Now to see if they sell as well as my wife predicts!

It will also be interesting to see if the hollow cookies are less prone to crack than the solid ones. I'm thinking they won't crack due to fact that they were standing dead and the big hollow should help. We'll see......

gfadvm

WmFritz, Her name is Mildred and we call her Milly for short!

Sixacresand

I wonder if sweet gum would be less crack proof? 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Peter Drouin

I have cut them too, For a wedding. Hemlock and pine.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Magicman

I try to keep a stack pre-cut and ready for a hitchin'.  Walnut and ERC. 

OK, I give them away.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Barney II

Have to get with the bunch----order for  200  11/4" cookies for a wedding in July. Going to be cut out of maple from their woods. Will also make a drop box out of the maple .  Going to be a busy summer.
Ya never know
Woodmizer  1985 lt30

tule peak timber

another way to use cookies. Pics are of our incense cedar in an upscale restaurant in Los Angeles..... Rob

 
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Magicman

I would not give that many away.   :o
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SPIKER

Looks interesting, those series of 3 pin with hole in the truck bed looked great, would be nice to do them & have votive candles in them!   

looks like it could be lucrative at 8 or 10 bucks a pop! 8)
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

WmFritz

Quote from: tule peak timber on April 20, 2014, 01:38:00 PM
another way to use cookies. Pics are of our incense cedar in an upscale restaurant in Los Angeles.....

On a trip to Vermont a few years ago, we stopped off for lunch at a bar somewhere in
NY. This bar had beautiful rustic woodwork throughout,  including cookies on the walls like that, Rob. We loved that look of stacked cordwood.
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

tule peak timber

Another way to use cookies squared up, thin sliced , and glued to a sheet of plywood like paneling. The pic shows alder centers with black epoxy fill. We put this in a a home in Lake Arrowhead, north of Los Angeles. The use for cookies is almost endless and I sell quite a few of them to other fabricators for their projects. I'm wanting to design a wood floor system with English Walnut  "cobble stones".....stay tuned.  Rob

 
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

ET

Hi Rob, I started a thread a month or so back inquiring about putting a wood floor in my new barn build where I plan to put in a showroom for selling my lumber. I received several responses and really like your pic. You mentioned "thin", could provide a few more details. Glued to plywood. Does the plywood just set on vapor barrier or is it anchored? Are they 4x8 sized, or 4x4 etc. I really would like to do this. I have months before im ready. Barn is 90% completed. Ernie
Lucas 1030, Slabber attachment, Husky 550XP, Ford 555B hoe, Blaze King Ultra, Vermeer chipper, 70 acres with 40 acres Woods.

tule peak timber

Briefly , I have not done the cookies as flooring yet, only as wall and ceiling panel. I based my "sheets "on 2foot by 4foot size for ease of handling through my machinery and 3/4 inch thick finished.Stay away from waterbased glues if you want flat panels ! When I do flooring it is always set on a vapor barrier. Hardwood Flooring Magazine is a good one to read for tips and technical advise. On the internet look up "end grain flooring" for lots of other tips.We chose to use flooring samples instead of actual wood  on our showroom floor because of the amount of grit and sand that gets dragged in- scarring the actual floor.Some things to think about , your target wood species, machinery setup,market, finishes....Feel free to contact me as I too think this a great "niche' area for us small mill operators.  Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

caveman

For those of you who have cut cookies for weddings, realizing that most will split, how long prior to the wedding do you saw them?  Also, I was planning on using water oak instead of live oak mainly because of the thinner bark and less potential wear on the blade.  What do you think?  The customer just specified oak and we have plenty of live oak, laurel oak and water oak (weeds).  Thanks for your suggestions.

We are planning to cut some on an angle/bias just to compare their stability to round ones and to see if the customer may want to buy some in the future.  We certainly will not make much on this little job but it may lead to more.
Caveman
Caveman

Magicman

Saw them as close to the wedding date as possible.

I have about a dozen Walnut cookies and also some ERC cookies that I have loaned out several times for weddings.  They were sawed from hard dry seasoned logs and very few have split.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Robert Owens

For a wedding this past summer in Tennessee we cut them a week before the wedding and made sure she knew to not stack them on top of each other due to chance of mold due to the high humidity. She used them for center pieces and they were 2" thick hickory. Turned out really nice.

Don_Papenburg

If you use square cut cookies for flooring or wall panels ,you might try the flexable  tile grout that comes in the caulking gun tube . Use the sanded grout  for floors and unsanded for thin joints and walls. 
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

WDH

Caveman,

Oak is one of the worst species for cracking, so I would cut them as close to the wedding as you can stand. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Quote from: WDH on January 04, 2015, 08:07:06 PM
Caveman,

Oak is one of the worst species for cracking, so I would cut them as close to the wedding as you can stand.
Yes, historically, the biggest problem we've had is convincing the mother of the bride that is planning (and paying) for the wedding that the cookies should be cut just before the wedding, at the last minute, will look like she wants them to look, and that they will be done in time, guaranteed.   ::)
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

drobertson

sawed a few cookies, a few for wedding, others for antler mounts,  I've never used screws, although not a bad idea,  I used a few 4x6's making a v-block cut with the chain saw, while using a 1" for the base for the stock to rest on across the bed rails, it makes a great holding fixture, solid and expendable if need be.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

trapper

My daughter would like some for custom cakes she makes I have mostly basswood and hickory.  Either of them work?
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

drobertson

yep, sure will,  anything works with cookies, some will last, others not so long.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WDH

I agree they will work.  Hickory is more prone to split.  I have not tried elm yet, but I bet it holds up pretty good. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

tule peak timber

You may add Almond and Madrone to the list of cookies that split even worse than oak !  >:( >:( >:(
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

caveman

I think that we will cut some "test cookies" this weekend out of live oak and see how they hold up.  I talked to the wedding planner tonight at a meeting and she does not care when we cut them as long as it is at least a day before the wedding. 

Some of the "test cookies" may end up in a very humid greenhouse that we use to grow and propagate foliage plants.  Maybe they will mold, maybe they will crack but it will be interesting to see if they stay together and don't mold.
Caveman
Caveman

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

beenthere

Seems a crack will be better than them being damp and/or moldy. Hope all goes well.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

tule peak timber

as far as live oak goes, it is my favorite for cookies that crack severely in a nice "spider"pattern , good for end plugs in box beams.When customers order a box beam or mantle I pull a pair of cookies  from storage and install them.  Rob

 
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

clww

Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

tule peak timber

Thanks , about 20 pounds - all Live oak.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

GAmillworker

You never disappoint us with your pics

That is a great use of cookies
Thank the Lord for second chances

caveman

Last weekend I cut some 1" live oak cookies about 11" in diameter.  I placed some on top of a round bale under a shed and placed some others in a very humid greenhouse.  I will check them every day or so to see if they split or mold.  Also, I sawed some at 1/2" thick on a bias or with the log clamped at about a 30° angle to the saw blade to see if this has any affect on them splitting.

There was also a small piece of cedar near the mill so it was also sawed into discs too. It should not crack up as bad as the oak.
Caveman


  

  

 
Caveman

caveman

Update on live oak cookies: the 1" cookies that were cut a week ago and stored outside on a hay bale in the shade began developing small (1/4") splits today.  The ones sawed at 1/2" are shaped like bowls.  The ones in the greenhouse were not split or moldy on Friday.  I did not think to look at them this morning when I went to school to feed the critters. 
Caveman 

Caveman

WDH

Thinner than about 1 1/4" and they can hold water  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

In an experiment for me to understand just how much distortion is induced by the drying stresses in cookies, I made a poplar cookie then used a circular saw to make a single cut from the outer edge to the center.  As the cookie dried, the saw cut widened from a little 1/8" saw kerf to a very wide gap.  Whenever I mill cookies for customers, I show them this "Pac Man" shape so they know what to expect, and not be surprised if they see cracks forming.
YH

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Ianab

That's a great example of why wood cookies crack. The wood can seldom withstand that amount of shrinkage without something letting go.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

caveman

The 1" live oak cookies opened up a bit more today.  It was the first day in awhile that was not really humid (day after a cold front-got down to 50°ish this a.m.).  The cookies that were cut on a bias or cut with the log clamped at probably a 15° angle to the blade have not cracked yet.  A relief cut, might be prudent to at least control the splitting.  I guess member JMoore will get to have all the fun cutting the cookies for the wedding alone since I will be completely occupied at the county fair the week prior to the wedding we are providing the cookies.

On another note, back when I was a kid, I saw a lot of cypress buttresses used to make tables and clocks.  With as much water as cypress holds when green compared to when it is dry, how are those discs dried without splitting?
Caveman

 
Caveman

Ianab

Did the cypress stumps have a lot of buttress roots and ingrown bark? Those act as natural expansion gaps. Also the cypress, although wetter actually shrinks less, and isn't as hard, so it can deform a bit more. Add all those together and it makes cypress less likely to crack
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

caveman

Thanks for the reasons on the cypress, Ianab.  Most of the big cypress around here are long gone.

I learn new things on here every day.
Caveman

Evergreen Man

What would happen if you dried the log first? Say you took a 4' piece and kept it in the house for a year or stuck it in a kiln for a long time. Would that stabilize the wood?
I used to think I was crazy, then I realized: I'm the only normal one.

WDH

No.  If could be worse.  The same forces that are acting on the cookie are acting on the log.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

caveman

Update. While spraying insecticide in the greenhouse this afternoon, I had a minute to inspect the cookies I placed there last week.  So far, none of them have split (1/2", 1" or the ones sawed on a bias).  They have not started growing mold yet but I expect them to any day.
Caveman
Caveman

Bill Gaiche

Speaking of square cookies for the floor. When we were at Denali, Alaska a couple years ago, one of the large restaurant that Princes Cruise lines uses has its floor done in about a 6" square cookie's. It looked pretty cool. bg

caveman

Update on cookies in the greenhouse.  Most have cracked by now.  Some have not.  They are not moldy since we only water every other day for about five minutes this time of the year and with the sides on.

Also, I attempted to cut a few relief cuts from the bark edge to the pith on the live oak using a band saw (Yellow Hammer used a circular saw) to control the crack.  The tension in the cookies was so much that I could not get the blade out of the cut using either a wedge or a chisel.  I had to cut all the way through to extract the blade making half cookies.  The one I did cut to the pith with a chop saw has behaved a lot better than the others.

We are making more cookies, candle holders and some other "rustic" wedding stuff next week for another wedding.
Caveman
Caveman

Nomad

     I've had only one call for me to cut cookies for wedding decorations.  They had to be cut to several specific sizes, and the lady wanted them for free.  (According to her they're a natural waste byproduct from a sawmill, don't ya know.) ::)  No, she didn't get any cookies.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

WDH

Quote from: nomad on March 03, 2015, 06:25:11 AM
No, she didn't get any cookies.

Bill,

That, too, is quite natural. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

 

 
These Walnut cookies were cut from a dead/dried/well seasoned log.  I have loaned them many times for weddings.  Most of the Cedar ones on the left cracked.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

caveman

JMoore and I sawed some on Saturday for a couple.  They wanted several different sizes so they could make cupcake stands in addition to the 10"-12" standard request.  They brought their own logs.  We also suggested that they bring winter cut logs if they wanted to retain the bark.  Most of the bark stayed on but these logs were not cut this winter.  JMoore recommended brad nailing any loose bark or affixing it with Gorilla Glue (expanding).  We spent about an hour total, which included washing logs, clamping odd shaped logs, and cutting cookies.  We clamped all of the logs except one very well.  We also got over 2" of rain that day.  I even caught a crawdad that was walking around the mill.

During the deluge, we even managed to sell some pecky cypress and cedar to the father of the groom to be and three nice cedar slabs to two other customers. 

Caveman
Caveman

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