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Health problems from sawing

Started by Barney II, April 09, 2014, 10:42:57 AM

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Barney II

It is my understanding that sawing spalted wood can cause some allergy problems and lung problems.  I seem to have contracted some sort of allergy or lung problems from having sawn some spallted birch ---I do not know for a fact that this due to the spallted  cuttings.    I am in the investigative stage .  I am wondering if anyone has run into this problem  and determined that the problem was due to having cut spallted wood.   Spent a week in Mayo clinic  in Oct. last year and left with no solution  I am starting to have  those same problems again. Any information would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks     Don
Ya never know
Woodmizer  1985 lt30

js2743

Could you have the wood tested to see what might be in it to cause you problems?

drobertson

Sorry to hear about your issues, and I have not read anything on this, but believe it is most possible to inhale some bad stuff.   Hope you get over it soon,     david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WoodenHead

Do you wear a mask while sawing?  Whenever I saw hardwood (of any kind) I always make sure I'm wearing a mask. Even then I sometimes still have problems coughing.  Some masks are better than others too.  Breathing wood fiber can cause lung cancer.  Admittedly I don't wear a mask when sawing white pine.  That never seems to bother me, but perhaps longer term....

Klicker

My doctor told me to wear a dust mask because  we are not intended to breath solids
2006 LT 40 HD

Magicman

The possibility of inhaling mold spores has often entered my mind, and it could not be a good thing. It only needs warmth and moisture and no sunlight, so the lungs would be a perfect place to incubate.   :-\

I wish you the best Barney with your diagnosis and recovery.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Barney II

I have posted this in the sawmill thread, but I am also posting here if Jeff allows this double posting.  My question is---Has anyone encountered health problems of any sort from cutting spalted  maple, birch or any species of wood?  I am having some lung and allergy problems that I think may be due to sawing this sort of spalted wood or anything else that you come into contact while sawing.   Any ideas or info is greatly appreciated----Thanks     Don
Ya never know
Woodmizer  1985 lt30

scsmith42

Don, yes cutting spalted lumber can be hazardous.  You should always wear a respirator or at least a dust mask when milling spalted woods and black walnut.  Many spalted woods are full of fungus which is not the best thing to be putting into your lungs.

I don't always wear a dust mask when I'm milling solid wood, but I ALWAYS WEAR ONE when milling anything that is spalted.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

beamero

Coming from a Registered Nurse (thumbs inward) every one should always wear a mask when sawing any type of wood/fiberous products. I am as guilty as the next person as not wearing a mask like I should.
2014 Wood Mizer LT40HD
Frick Circular Mill
Ford 555C
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Cat 420D IT

xlogger

don't forget to wear a mask when cutting cedar also.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

scsmith42

I have experienced both respiratory problems as well as skin rashes from milling spalted lumber.  A respirator solved the first, and dressing appropriately solved the second.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Magicman

Simple fact, I do not saw without a mask no matter the species or log condition.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Left Coast Chris

I now wear a good industrial dust mask when sawing.   I got a serious sinus infection from turning spalted maple on my lathe twice.  Both times I needed antibiotics to kick it.   Be careful because it can be more serious for some.
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

SLawyer Dave

Medicine and science are continuing to find that "air particulate matter" is a major cause of health issues.  That is why you see your "Air Resources Boards" across the country continue to try and place new restrictions on industries and activities that increase such particulate matter in the atmosphere.  Here in Northern California, one of our biggest industries is rice growing.  Regulators have been trying for years to shut down the annual "burning of the stubble", that remains after harvest. 

I've personally known several cabinet makers and wood workers who have had to retire due to long term scarring of their lungs due to wood dust inhalation.  While wood dust is not nearly as carcinogenic and damaging as asbestos, it still is not good for your lungs.  Same thing goes for any kind of "dust" that one might encounter.  A couple decades ago when I worked for Terminix crawling under homes inspecting them, I found myself in a similar situation.  I couldn't get rid of a nagging cough and cold like symptoms.  My doc said it was caused by my continued exposure to all of the dust, mold and mildew common in such crawl spaces.  He also warned me that I was a prime candidate for "Valley Fever", which is a fungal infection of the lungs that is caused when breathing in infected "dust" particles.  Terminix didn't want to start providing us "inspectors" with the expensive type 1 chemical/dust masks they had to supply to those actually working with the chemicals.  That changed when the California Occupational Safety and Hazard Administration made a finding that continued exposure to such airborne contaminants constituted a "hazardous" environment that required such protective devices.   

While I realize that the "dust" and contaminants I was exposed to are somewhat different from those that may be common in a milling situation, the fact remains that breathing in such particulate matter is inherently "BAD" for your health.  Adding potential exposure to fungal, mold, and other potential disease vectors riding along on and in the wood dust, (such as from spalted wood), only makes the situation  potentially more unhealthy.

Barney II

Just to say thanks for all the replies.  What I am trying to deal with is an extreme allergy or reaction to some chemicals that would have been dumped on the property while I did not own it. Also blastomycosis which my cohort did come down with while  we were trying to recover some really old timbers in a swampy area or something to do with having cut spalted birch.  It gets more confusing but I will leave it at this.   :D :D :D         Don
Ya never know
Woodmizer  1985 lt30

Alcranb

Yesterday at the WM open house while a sawyer was demoing a saw, the sun was shinning at just the right angle so that the sawyer could be seen in a cloud of very fine sawdust. Looked like Pigpen from Charlie Brown  :)  Even my wife who knows nothing of milling asked me if it was always that dusty and why he wasn't wearing a mask? We moved over a few feet and we could no longer see that fine dusty cloud, just sawdust flying at his feet.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though we can't see or feel it, it doesn't mean it's not there and if someone uninformed could pick it up.......  :-\
On the upside she told me she sure hoped I wore a mask......she must still love me   ;D
"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.  So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.  (Mark Twain)

Peter Drouin

Quote from: Alcranb on April 13, 2014, 10:43:10 AM

On the upside she told me she sure hoped I wore a mask.   


A mask on you would not hurt. ;D :D :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Alcranb

"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.  So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.  (Mark Twain)

Peter Drouin

I see you got home Ok , I'm glad ;)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Thehardway

A couple things I might mention here.  Wood dust can effect one in  number of ways.  The worst and most obvious is inhalation into the lungs.  Although a dust mask is a first line of defense, they are not foolproof or dustproof.  Fitment is a big issue with any breathing apparatus especially if one has facial hair.

Reactions to wood dust that manages to find its way around breathing protection can be caused by a number of reasons:
1.  Toxicity in the wood of a chemical nature. (redcedar, true cedars, walnut, etc. all have certain levels of toxicity from which their insect resistance is derived)
2.  Toxicity from mold or fungal spores within the wood (spalted, weathered, moldy, etc, wood may have this)
3.  Irritation of the bronchial and sinusoidal passageways due to foreign matter
4.  Irritation, inflammation of the head and chest due to mucosal insufficiency caused by dust.

The first is likely the quickest and deadliest as it can cause severe sickeness and toxicity and is difficult to recover from.
The second is more common and often unnoticed at first as symptoms may be slow in coming on and disguised as flu, cold, asthma allergys or other more common malady.  If the immune system is compromised it can become severe.  Diagnosis and treatment may be difficult.  If diagnosed and a antifungal/ antibacterial medication is prescribed, it should be followed up with a regimen of probiotics to re-establish healthy gut flora within the body and aviod additional complications and problems with the immune system.
The third is often overlooked and veiwed as an allergy.  Don't forget that the eyes, ears, nose, and throat are all intricately connected. Foreign bodies such as sawdust buildup in the nose, eyes or ears can cause sinus inflammation, nasal congestion, resulting in throat irritation and in some cases severe inflammation, swollen glands and flu like symptoms and vertigo.  Be sure to thoroughly cleanse the eyes, ears, and nose after sawing or working in leaf litter etc.

The fourth issue is one we often neglect.  When working in a dusty environment, it is easy to become dehydrated and to dry out the mucosal membranes.  Have you ever noticed how your nose will drip when working in dusty conditions?  You will also generate mucous in the mouth and throat.  It's supposed to work that way.  It is like an oil bath air filtration system.  If you don't stay properly hydrated, it will not work right and then the dust will bypass your filtration system. 

Just like you clean and re-oil the filter, you need to clean and re-hydrate your body.  Remove any sawdust from the tear ducts, eyes, ears, etc. drink a fluid that replenishes electrolytes (I like grape juice on crushed ice) and most importantly don't be afraid to moisten the sinuses using saline solution nasal spray.

Symptoms of dehydrated nasal passages may occur as headache, sinus pressure behind the eyes or across the forehead, stiff neck, sore throat, bloody nose, crusty nose, dry mouth, dizzyness, etc.

Apart from dust, and PPE related stuff,  health problems are likely to occur from using poor lifting body mechanics, bad posture, neck back and shoulder strain and exposure to the elements.  Be sure to stretch your muscles/joints regularly, be aware of the sun and its intensity, hydration, and keep your skin covered.

Recently I have been restricted in my activity due to the development of Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS).  TOS primarily effects athletes like pitchers but is also prevalent amongst those who are heavily muscled in the shoulders and arms.  Over development of these muscles can cause a restriction in nerve and blood flow at the thoracic outlet.  This results in a variety of symptoms which in my case was my arms going numb and tingling in my hands particularly the last three fingers.

Years of pulling cable overhead, carrying heavy objects on my shoulders, and lifting, turning,and pushing heavy objects, placed me in a high risk category  for (TOS) and then a car accident which resulted in a shoulder injury pushed me over the edge.  It was rather scary.  I thought I might lose the use of my arms and was having severe neck and shoulder pain.  I could do very little which required lifting my arms over my head and it was difficult to sleep or drive for any period of time.  After lots of time,  several different diagnosis, and a lot of physical therapy I am finally regaining some strength and my pain is lessening.
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

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