Hello,new to forum,Need your help!

[greenwood]

Hello !
I am new to the forum. I need some input regarding using green eastern Hemlock to build 6' picnic tables. (These are the old style, 1 piece, heavy-duty tables.) These tables need to last a long time & maintenance free is to ultimate goal.
Due to limited funding & the need to have tables built quickly, I have resorted to purchasing  green Hemlock from a local sawmill for this project. I hope this will work! :-\

Questions:
1) After I cut boards to size, should I paint the end of the boards? If so with what type of material?
2)What type of screws to use? Should I pilot holes or just drive screws in?
3) How long to wait for assembled tables to dry naturally before sealing?
4) What is the best way to preserve this type of wood?
5) What can I expect these tables to do once dry?
6)I have read that Hemlock dries well by itself when air dried for 1year per inch (thickness). I am building tables with fresh sawn lumber (green). In your opinion, will these tables serve their purpose? Will they hold up well?

I have read that the main problems with Hemlock are: hard to drive a nail in once dry, splitting on ends when fastening boards, & ring shake(no shake, boards are fairly clear). Is this true? Any other anticipated problems?

I thank you all for any & all input... it is MUCH appreciated!

Have a GREAT day!

greenwood

[Magicman]

I am of no help with Hemlock, but Welcome to the Forestry Forum,    greenwood.   

[thecfarm]

If using hemlock green all the splitting-drilling problems are gone. Let it dry and you have all those problems. I have very little problems with the hemlock I use as far as warping. Welcome to the forum.

[greenwood]

Hey guys!

Thanks for the welcome! I appreciate any & all input.

thecfarm,
This is good to know re: warping & splitting. Thanks! do you build regularly with green lumber?

Can you give me an idea as to what other problems I may encounter building these tables from green Hemlock?

The boards are still on my trailer & I need to start processing them. Still not sure if Hemlock will work for this project. Could you please give me some input to whether or not these tables will come out ok building them green? I do not want to waste my time or the lumber! :-\

Thanks again bud!
greenwood

[thecfarm]

All out of green lumber. Mostly hemlock. I did sticker,dry,the roofing boards.Most was cut down,brought to my sawmill,sawed and than I built with it,all within a few hours.



 
Just so you know,there is no insulation sheetrock or nothing in this building. You do not want to trap the moisture in.
The only problem I might see is spliters. Are they planed,or rough lumber? I don't see any problems using them green.
By the way,you say boards?? Are they boards,one inch thick or 2 inch material.

[greenwood]

That is one really nice building!

Great!

No plane, it is rough lumber with a band saw so fairly smooth.

Ok so, don't trap in moisture..so no painting the ends of boards? 

The boards are sawn to 1 1/2". Figure they will shrink to 1 1/4" is this correct?

I have never seen a forum like this. I am Sooo glad I stumbled upon it! This is most helpful, as this forum seems like it is loaded with great people & info.  Here on a forum we can give & relieve "real life" answers & show results of our work.

I am looking forward to getting to know the very kind folks & the projects you guys have all worked on!

[GAB]

greenwood you wrote: "I am looking forward to getting to know the very kind folks & the projects you guys have all worked on!"
You better plan on pulling up a stump as you will be here a while.
Oh and by the way welcome.
Gerald

[greenwood]

 :D

Thanks GAB!

Is "GAB" short for "gabby"  ??? ;D

[GAB]

greenwood asked: "Is "GAB" short for "gabby""
Depending on who you speak to or with it could be.
However GAB are my initials.
Gerald

[Remle]

Welcome greenwood, are you just green, to the wood working thing or are you in Greenwood ,NY. I grew up in Andover..

[shinnlinger]

I think green hemlock is a decent choice for workability,  rot  resistance and strength, but my  concern would be splinters in thy backside.  I would put the boards  "frown down" or barkside up. 
Dave

[m wood]

welcome greenwood.  Yup your in the neighborhood for shrinkage on the 1 1/2" boards, more or less.  Are you building several of these picnic tables for an event coming up?  Did you have someone else saw them for you, or is it your bandmill?
mark

[SwampDonkey]

Plan for movement in your piece. Like don't bolt that solid slab top down and think it won't move. It will, and make a nice split along with it. If you have narrow pieces in the top there would be less worry, with one bolt at each end. And hemlock untreated out in the elements won't last for year and years, it will rot within 5. Hemlock is no better than spruce against rot.

[VTwoodworker]

Hi Greenwood,

Hemlock will work fine for the picnic tables.  I have used it for them in the past.  Although I would suggest planing the lumber prior to building because hemlock slivers are no fun.

I suggest letting the tables dry for a couple of months and then stain them with a good quality exterior stain.  You will probably need to re-stain the table every couple of years.  When chosing the stain remember that you will be eating off the table.  If planing the lumber is not an option I would go at the exposed surface with a belt sander to knock down the slivers prior to staining.

I recommend using ceramic coated deck screws for the construction.  They are self tapping and will outlast the hemlock.  I think you should get 8-10 years out of the tables and the legs of the tables in contact with the ground will be the biggest risk of rot.  On the tables I have built, I cut the legs a couple of inches long so I could trim the deterioration off the bottom after a few years.

Go for it.

[shinnlinger]

ANother thing to consider is soaking the end grain, particularly on the bottom, with superglue to prevent the wood from wicking up ground moisture.  If your careful, you won't even see it.

Dave

[Lakeerieloghomes]

I love hemlock. We use a lot of it. Boards, timbers, batten, mantles, etc. Green is the way to go with hemlock.

[mad murdock]

Welcome greenwood.

[SwampDonkey]

I keep my table out of the mud by putting some scrap wood or a brick under the legs.

[greenwood]

Wow...  a lot of replies here! I am Sooo grateful!

Thanks everyone, I feel so welcome. You are all knowledgeable, helpful, kind buds!  I think I am going to be liking this forum.  Just need to get used to navigating around as it is so vast.

Posted by: Remle
« on: Yesterday at 03:27:55 pm »

Welcome greenwood, are you just green, to the wood working thing or are you in Greenwood ,NY. I grew up in Andover..

Hi Remle-
I used "greenwood"  because it was the first thing that popped into my head . Seemed appropriate as I was looking for tips on how to work with "green wood" when I was signing up to join forum.
I do not live in Greenwood NY. (I am about 15 miles from Andover.) A real small world isn't it ...

Posted by: shinnlinger
« on: Yesterday at 04:15:05 pm »

I think green hemlock is a decent choice for workability,  rot  resistance and strength, but my  concern would be splinters in thy backside.  I would put the boards  "frown down" or barkside up.
Dave

Hello Dave-
"workability,  rot  resistance and strength" this is good to know! Slivers not welcome in my butt..Nooo...
How can I tell which side is which once milled? They look the same to me Hmmm..
Let me know dude...
Also on the "superglue" I would need buckets of this ..cheap..do you have a resource or alternative ?

posted by: m wood
« on: Yesterday at 04:44:43 pm »

   welcome greenwood.  Yup your in the neighborhood for shrinkage on the 1 1/2" boards, more or less.  Are you building several of these picnic tables for an event coming up?  Did you have someone else saw them for you, or is it your bandmill?
mark

Hi Mark!

I am building these tables for my new business. I have to build 8 or so to get started. I have an Amish dude doing the milling with his band saw. I would like to purchase my own mill at some point as I own/manage 130 acres mature woodlot & would like to be able to use my own resources at some point in time.

Posted by: SwampDonkey
« on: Yesterday at 05:28:22 pm »

Plan for movement in your piece. Like don't bolt that solid slab top down and think it won't move. It will, and make a nice split along with it. If you have narrow pieces in the top there would be less worry, with one bolt at each end. And hemlock untreated out in the elements won't last for year and years, it will rot within 5. Hemlock is no better than spruce against rot.

Hey SwampDonkey:

I was going to screw it down. The boards are 6" wide. Someone told me if I painted the ends of the boards while green it would lessen the chances of splitting as this allows the wood to dry slower. Not sure if this is true. Do you know about this? Also I was planning on doing something to keep the legs from absorbing ground water. I have heard different on the "rot" issue... depends on treatment ...guess time will tell!

osted by: VTwoodworker
« on: Yesterday at 08:04:24 pm »

   Hi Greenwood,

Hemlock will work fine for the picnic tables.  I have used it for them in the past.  Although I would suggest planing the lumber prior to building because hemlock slivers are no fun.

I suggest letting the tables dry for a couple of months and then stain them with a good quality exterior stain.  You will probably need to re-stain the table every couple of years.  When chosing the stain remember that you will be eating off the table.  If planing the lumber is not an option I would go at the exposed surface with a belt sander to knock down the slivers prior to staining.

I recommend using ceramic coated deck screws for the construction.  They are self tapping and will outlast the hemlock.  I think you should get 8-10 years out of the tables and the legs of the tables in contact with the ground will be the biggest risk of rot.  On the tables I have built, I cut the legs a couple of inches long so I could trim the deterioration off the bottom after a few years.

Go for it.

Hello VT woodworker!

GREAT tips...will be using a impact drill to drive screws so no need for self tapping screws (did not know they even made these for wood) hmmm..
Like your attitude! Going for it.... 8)

Posted by: Lakeerieloghomes
« on: Yesterday at 09:39:37 pm »

    I love hemlock. We use a lot of it. Boards, timbers, batten, mantles, etc. Green is the way to go with hemlock.

Hello there Lakeerieloghomes-

This is assuring.! Thanks!



How's it going mad murkdock?  ;D

Posted by: SwampDonkey
« on: Today at 03:50:48 am »

   I keep my table out of the mud by putting some scrap wood or a brick under the legs.

Great suggestion! I was planning on making a small pad for each leg of table as these will be heavy & fixed units. Was also going to somehow seal leg bottoms as Dave suggested & also screw a piece of PT for extra measure!

You guys have been VERY helpful & it is MUCH appreciated!

This is what I got done yesterday...

Opps... system won't let me upload file..what's up with this guys? ??? Oh well... It is a nice day today...back to the grind...

Have a GREAT day all!

[SwampDonkey]

Depends on where it sits, outside it may not get too dry. Maybe just down to 16 % in hot summer. That's still below saturation by 14% give or take. When you go below saturation (green) you got movement. I'm not talking about drying checks. I'm talking about designing for forces when that wood does dry. If you dry to hold something that wants to move, it's going to split wood before busting steel. But I thought you were doing a whole slab top. So not much to get worried over for narrow stuff.

[shinnlinger]

If you look at the end of the board after you mill it, you will still see the circular end grain.  It will only be a curved section depending on where the board was in the tree, but you will see a a distinctive CCC pattern.  if it is smiling at you, flip it over and put it "frown down"

you only need to plug the end grain on the four legs that touch the ground.  I suppose heating up paraffin wax and letting it drip on the end would be cost effective, but simply painting the ends would be better than nothing.

Dave