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Bell's Firewood Processor

Started by deastman, April 05, 2014, 11:13:13 AM

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deastman

Been looking at a Bell's firewood processor, anyone have one or heard good or bad about them? Looking at one of their rotary saw models.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

Firewood dealer

I looked them over pretty good at the logging show last spring and they seem to be built decent. Just like anything else, it has good points and bad.

deastman

To me they look like a good machine, but like anything I've been told by guys that own them that they've had a few issues,  nothing major but some small frustrating things. Overall they said they are happy with them after a few things were fixed by the factory. Anyone know or heard which firewood processor manufacturer has the best factory support and service?
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

Corley5

  I've never had any real issues with my Block Buster and most parts are over the counter and available locally.  The few times I've called them they've been extremely helpful.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy another and probably wouldn't buy anything else although that smaller Multi Tek with the circle saw is pretty nice  ;) ;D
  I'd look the closest at the quality of steel and workmanship in the construction of the machine and where the pumps, valves, chains etc were sourced.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

danabg

X2 on the blockbuster we put about 1000 cords a year through our 1820 with very few problems and they are good guys to deal with.

NWP

X3 on Blockbuster. I bought my machine new almost 15 years ago and I can call and talk to Tony at the factory if I have a problem and he'll help me through it.
1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1997 Duratech HD10, 2021 Kubota SVL97-2, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 2004 Case 621D, John Deere 540A, 2011 Freightliner with Prentice 120C, 2012 Chevrolet, 1997 GMC bucket truck, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

BargeMonkey

 My machine is inside a building, an older Built-rite and I cant complain. Have you looked at a woodbine ? We went out and looked at a Loco and he was real decent.

heat maker

I was up looking at the Woodbine last week.. Looks like its built pretty good.  All the popular manufactures (ie) Multitek, Cord King, Blockbuster say to stay away from them. They claim that they have lots of problems with the wedges.  I just don't know if there bad mouthing Woodbine because of there pricing

deastman

I looked at the Woodbine Loco and think it would do a good job. But when I asked them to put a cab on it and a electric over hydraulic joystick control they weren't interested. Those are two requirements that I have decided on when buying a processor. I thought about getting a Woodbine and then making the changes myself but decided against it. I didn't want to have to re-engineer a new rig to get it the way I wanted. CRD  told me that they wanted to keep their hydraulic's simple and didn't want to add a cab, which I can understand. Also I didn't like the Duetz engine much as I'm a die hard Cat guy. Bell's builds exactly what I'm looking for, heated cab, same joystick control that my c-t-l processor uses, and a Cat engine that looks to be exactly the same as what I have in my Cat forwarder. I figured by the time I made the changes to the Woodbine that I wanted I'd have the same money in it that I could buy the Bell for all set up without all the time lost working on it. I think the Woodbine is a good rig with a great price,  it just isnt set up like what I'm looking ffor.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

North River Energy

Operation up the street has been running a Rapido Loco for a few years now.  Last we spoke he was fine with the throughput, but not happy with the infeed deck, as it is somewhat 'light duty'.

Bell's machine looks nice, but would prefer a right-handed joystick.  Which model are you leaning toward?

Have you had the opportunity to test drive anything?

deastman

I'm looking at the 6000 model. I noticed on the 6000 with the extended frame option the jjoystick was on the right and the operator was facing the splitter, I'm going to ask them if you can get that cab set-up without the extended frame, I wouldn't think it would be a problem. I havnt seen one work yet but Bell's gave me the names of two guys here in Maine that own 6000's, I've talked to both and I'm going this week to see them both and run their processors and get the scoop on what they like and don't like about them.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

North River Energy

^
Sounds like a good plan.  Maybe post your impressions of the test drive, and/or the owners opinions?

I'd like to see a flip tray to steady the last cut, (don't care for the sliding shelf concept on the 8k).  Also would be nice to have an ejector path for the odd length pieces, so as not to include the shorts with the rest of the product.
Do they offer a means of measuring the length of the last block?
The long/tall backstop on the indeed trough might affect feed of the more twisted logs.

deastman

I'll post what I find out from both owners, I should be headed down mid-week to check them out.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

deastman

Quote from: North River Energy on April 06, 2014, 07:22:19 PM
^
Sounds like a good plan.  Maybe post your impressions of the test drive, and/or the owners opinions?

I'd like to see a flip tray to steady the last cut, (don't care for the sliding shelf concept on the 8k).  Also would be nice to have an ejector path for the odd length pieces, so as not to include the shorts with the rest of the product.
Do they offer a means of measuring the length of the last block?
The long/tall backstop on the indeed trough might affect feed of the more twisted logs.
Went this week and ran a 2013 Bell's model 6000,  exact machine I thought I had settled on going with. But after talkin to the owner and watching him run it and after running it myself I've changed my mind and decided not to go with a Bell's. The owner has had a number of serious issues with it and isn't happy at all. It has a number of problems that he and I could see need to be fixed. He bought it new less than a year ago and has already had to  do a bunch of cutting and welding to try to fix it and still has more to go to get the bugs wworked out of it. With a few changes on the design it would be a great rig,  but after running it I just couldn't spend close to six figures on it and not be happy with it's performance. I went today and ran a new Cord King and was very impressed with it and the owner loves it. First of next week I'm goin to run a CRD Woodbine Rapido Loco 60 and check it out, the owner built his own cab for it and says overall it's a good rig. Yesterday I looked at a  new Multitek and think it's a top of the line rig but so is the price. So after all my research and test drives so far I'm leaning pretty hard towards the Cord King, gonna make my decision after looking at the CRD on Tuesday.  It's a big step for me and I hope I make the right decision and will be happy with it. It's been exhausting going over all the specs of the diferent manufacturers and trying to find the right machine for the right price.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

BargeMonkey

 We talked with the owner @ CRD and he was more than willing to make some changes to the machine for our specific operation. We decided putting money into ours was the better choice because of how its set up inside and re-sale on a processor is hard. The firewood processor market is such a scam sometimes, advertising 2-3 cord an hour from a small machine. We can do a cord of 16" regular wood in 40-45 minutes flat with 2 people and thats with the splitter never staying empty.

deastman

When I talked to CRD it was with the salesman and not Chris himself,  maybe I should make a trip south to his shop and check with him. I'm really surprised about how lightweight and simple some of the different brands are built and just by looking at them I can see where iimprovements could be made. Wish I had the time and money to design and build one myself,  it would be more rugged and user friendly. There must be more money in building them than buying and running them!
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

North River Energy

Thanks for the update.  Care to comment on the issues with the Bell's?

Which model Cord King/Multitek?

As with machine tools, mass is your friend.

deastman

Biggest issue with the Bell"s is the way the wood drops down into the splitter, I think the "V" in the splitter is too wide in the bottom and the wood bounces when it hits the main beam that the splitter head travels back and forth on causing the blocks to bounce up and land sideways or cock-eyed in the splitter. We had to run it with the window open all the time cause very few blocks dropped square into the splitter, you constantly were reaching out the window to straighten the block before you could split it. Not a good feature to have your arm constantly out the window with the saw running wide open. He said the bouncing problem is even worse when the wood is frozen. The adjustable wedge is not hooked to the cylinder underneath so if the end of a block towards the wedge is tilted up when the cylinder pushes the block it causes the wedge to ride up, there's nothing hooked to the wedge to keep it from moving up. The underside of the 32' chain conveyor is totally boxed in, it's broken twice already and it piles up in the bottom on the underside with no acces to fix it. He had to get the torch out and cut two large square access holes so he could get at the chain to fix it. There's a few smaller issues but the wood not dropping into
the splitter without having to reach out and straighten it is what discouraged me from buying it. It's too bad cause it has the best quality cab and the exact joystick control that I'm looking for. If they could fix those three major problem's I would buy one but I need a machine ready to process firewood soon and don't know how long it would take for the factory to make the changes. Maybe I'll call them on Monday morning to see what could be done  and how long it would take, I was really looking forward to buying their machine but I won't until they solve those problems.

Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

deastman

Looking at the Cord King 1830  and the Multitek 2025 both with the rotary saw and cab
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

NWP

You don't want the wedge held down. It needs the ability to pop up if it gets in a bind. If it can't something has to give which means something is going to break. Sometimes I'll have a piece with a knot on it or an uneven cut end that pushes the floating wedge up.
1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1997 Duratech HD10, 2021 Kubota SVL97-2, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 2004 Case 621D, John Deere 540A, 2011 Freightliner with Prentice 120C, 2012 Chevrolet, 1997 GMC bucket truck, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

North River Energy

Good info, thanks. 

Disregarding cost, I think I'd favor the Multitek, as you have a little more control of material feed, and the larger saw capacity gives a bit more clearance for twisted wood.  Apparently they offer some sort of discharge option for the 'shorts' as well.

Lot's o' steel as well.

The face on my pusher is smooth, and the wedge fixed to the height adjustment piston.  The tail end of the round is free to 'skate' across the face of the pusher without binding once the round engages the wedge.  You do need clearance below the wedge though.

If memory serves, the Blockbuster wedge floats, but there's enough mass in the wedge assembly that it won't move around unless it really has to?

2025 bar saw with conveyor listed on CLmaine as of 3/20?

glassman_48

deastman,
I agree with NWP about the floating wedge, my 4 way wedge goes through most logs pretty easy, but any knot or worse 2 knots at just the right spot on the log will even give a 4 way wedge grief.  The first time I put my 6 way wedge on I ran a 10" maple log through and there were 2 knots on the log in just the right (or wrong) spot and even though my wedge traveled up slightly one knot put a pretty good bend on one of the wedge wings.  I tried to heat it and straighten it, but its never been quite right since.  I am going to try grinding off the peeled part this time and see what happens or just replace the wing.  I just use my 4 way most of the time now it takes longer on the bigger logs, but its less stress on the machine and the wedge.  Most of the processor companies showing a 6 or 8 way wedge on video looks like their running ash or maple, my 6 way goes through straight grained wood real nice.  My son got a video done of me running my machine and my neighbor is trying to download it this weekend on you tube.  good luck with your purchase.

thechknhwk

I like that 1620 SS a lot.  I wonder what that sucker run$...  I wish it could load it's own logs though.

Ford_man

The Wedge needs to float I put a grade 8 half in bolt in mine so it could only lift so much. When running the logs top first the wedge would rise to the point it would shear the bolt off. Running the logs through butt first the wedge did not lift, problem solved. I have a Dyna SC14 They are great people to work with. I had 1 problem called them at 11AM had the part at 1PM the next day. They are made in northern Michigan. splitwood_smiley splitwood_smiley

deastman

Thanks for all  the info on the floating wedge. Since I had originally decided on the Bells machine I went back down today and met again with the owner to take a second look. We went over the issues he's had with it and talked aboutt what needed to be done to fix those problems. We came up with a list of the changes that we both would like to see fixed and tomorrow I'll call up to Bell's and discuss them with the owner,  may even take a trip up to see them at the factory if he thinks our ideas sound reasonable. I'll let you know what I find out after talking with Bells.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

barbender

I'd be more interested I seeing if they will fix the issues for the guy that already owns one ;)
Too many irons in the fire

BargeMonkey

 Every few years we have to weld up our wedges but im sending stuff thru mine thats beyond horrible sometimes. 22" oak full of limbs, hickory and nasty hard maple and havent had major issues.  For the money the multiteks are the way to go, I prefer the 3/4 pitch over the circle saw.

deastman

I agree, I think the Multitek is the best one but they are very expensive.  The new 2025 that I looked at is $130,000 at Anderson Equipment,  $40,000 more than the Cord King or the Bells.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

North River Energy

^
Kinda makes that used 2025 look like a bargain.
There was a 2040xpcircle listed a few months back in NH for maybe 64k? 

I think I'd be talking to operators running their respective processors hard for at least a 10 year period.  Then you'd have a really good idea about durability, repair cost, design flaws, and actual numbers on production volume. I'd want to know not only where the machines have broken, but also where they haven't failed.

Rather than cord/hr projections, look at actual cycle rate and do your own math based on your available feed stock.  (Circle slasher cut time will probably vary a lot less per log diameter/species than bar saw.)

What kind of volume do you need to do, and how much time to you have available to do it?
Will you run the processor yourself, or will you be hiring the labor?

Some of the disappointments of your quest might actually be a blessing.

And what barbender said.

Corley5

Ya gotta sell a LOT of wood to pay for one of those  :-\
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

glassman_48

deastman,
if you go to the crd metalworks site, they had a used cord king with a 60" blade I think in there for sale, I believe it was down in north carolina.   just a thought

deastman

Thanks, I did see that used Cord King. Funny thing happened today, I was gonna call Bell's this morning and before i got around to it they called me. The owner that I met with yesterday to go over his Bell's processor called up to the factory this morning and told them what he and I thought needed to be fixed and that I had changed my mind about buying one. The owner then called me and listed some of the changes that they had already made. When I told him my biggest concern was how the wood dropped and bounced in the splitter and how i thought it could be fixed, he said they had already redesigned the splitter on the larger 8000 model just the same way as what I had suggested. They are now doin the same to the 6000  that they're taking to the Vermont show next month. He wanted to know what other changes i had in mind and when I told him he thought they were good ideas. Not sure if he's just playing salesman or not, but he wanted me to e-mail him up my list of changes
so they could go over them. He said he wanted to know any ideas i had to improve it and that he would make the changes that I wanted. Told him I would see him at the Vermont show to go over them with him. Right now he said there's about an 8 week wait to get one so I said if he's willing to listen to how I'd like to have it built then he could put me on his list for one. I don't really want to have to wait until mid June to get it,  but I would rather have it done right than get it sooner and not be happy with it. Looking forward to goin to the show and seeing what he thinks and if he'll do what he says.  I guess I'll have to wait until next month to find out.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

glassman_48

deastman, I did the same thing with twister firewood processor, he let me take home a demo model for quite a while and he built one to my specs for mobile firewood processing.  The only thing he did wrong was he built the draw down bar on the wrong side :-\  The demo model I used I drew the bar down with my left hand/arm which was great.  I actually got my left arm so strong I started hitting 300 yard drives in golf.  My right shoulder has been shot for years from shooting competitive archery and tennis.  It was an honest mistake on his part so I just use it the way it is.  My splitter chute is angled also its about 7" wide at the base so a 6" log fits about perfect, a 5" log or less will not always line up exactly if I wanted to split it exactly in half.  But I dont split much under 5" anyways.  I do still get some logs that will bounce up or fall not quite right but not many.  He designed his splitter chute well on the twister machine.  Twister put a safety switch in the handle of my draw down bar at my request, if I get a log that twists or moves in the middle of a cut especially a larger log, then I can just stop the chain by letting up on the switch.  Much safer that way.  He notched out the frame for easier access to changing the bar, he welded a 16" and 18" notch behind my chain saw bar so I can easily see the marks for the last cut instead of digging through sawdust. All at my request.  I have some other really good ideas that may even be patentable but thats another story.  The hardest part for these manufacturers is building a machine and staying competitively priced.  Good luck, Ed

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