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Help me understand....

Started by Ocklawahaboy, March 27, 2014, 09:16:38 AM

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Ocklawahaboy

Ok, seeing as I primarily cut for myself, I try to keep up with local prices, just in case I need to quote out a job.  I watch CL adds for rough cut lumber, milling services etc.  it seems like all of the adds charge more for 8/4 boards than 4/4.  I can understand charging more per BF for wider boards, because of the difficulty getting bigger logs, but when working from a cant to make boards, why should thicker ones cost more per BF?  You are making less cuts and spending less time.  I know when talking about kiln dried wood, thicker takes longer and time is money but on green lumber, I don't get it. 

FeltzE

Without further clarification on what someone is selling.  I can see at least one reason to charge more for the thicker lumber.  Grade.

I can cut crappy not for grade  logs into 1x12 for barns and stalls with 3 inch knots.  Those logs may be unsaleable commercialy 21" or larger knottys.

To cut 8/4 6" rafters, I need grade logs with small or no knots, straight and true. These logs may retail for upwards of $40/ton. 

Granted you cannot Grade Stamp your lumber but as a good sawyer you are always sorting for application rafters and joist need to meet or exceed grade standards even if used in an application not inspected such as agricultural structures here.

Ocklawahaboy

That makes sense for that application. 

Magicman

Same reason that tire manufacturers charge more for large automobile tires than for small tires.  It does not cost any more to make larger tires, but somehow we expect to pay more for them.

Bigger is better and more expensive.  It generally takes a larger and better quality log to make thicker lumber.  That plus customers expect to pay more per bf for thicker lumber.  We don't have to agree with this crazy world, we just live in it.   smiley_dizzy   ;D

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Tom the Sawyer

It takes longer to dry 8/4 versus 4/4, either air or kiln dried, so your investment in the lumber is tied up for a longer period.  Another factor is supply.  4/4 hardwoods are pretty much the standard and 8/4 is rarer, therefore it has more potential value.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Lumber grades are determined from the worst face.  Oftentimes, the worst face is the face closest to the pith and not closest to the bark.  So when cutting 8/4, there is a bigger chance that the worst face will be a lower grade (unless you have x-ray vision and can see what is on the inside of a log).  So, if you want 8/4, it is riskier for me to saw 8/4 because I might get lower grade that you and others do not want, or want for a reasonable price.  So, I need to cover my risk by charging more.  Also, with
more logs being small than in the past, upper grades of 8/4 are rarer and so I can charge more.

As far as price goes, 4/4 might sell for $1000 per 1000 BF, while 8/4 (the same volume of wood), will seek for $1250 per 1000 BF.

You can saw all day, but you only make money when you sell what you sawed.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

bandmiller2

Its my understanding that, in the trade, lumber is gauged by its thickness in 1/4" units. 4/4 is four quarters or 1" 8/4 is 2" don't think it has anything to do with grade. 8/4 your selling twice as much wood as 4/4 that's why its more expensive. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

WDH

Around here, 8/4 hardwood is very hard to find.  It takes bigger, better logs, it takes twice as long to dry, and it is twice as hard to dry without drying defects.  If it is FAS or Select, it will sell.  If it is #1 common, it is harder to sell.  If it is #2 common, it won't sell.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Ocklawahaboy

Thanks for all the posts.  I'm sure one of the reasons applies to most of the situations I've seen.  I think MM hit it one the head.  Some of these folks have seen thicker lumber sold for higher BF prices, for legitimate reasons, so they slap higher prices on theirs, even though it might not be deserved.

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