Tree Farmer C4D Questions

JustinW_NZ · March 25, 2014, 04:32:45 AM

Hi there all

I've just got my fingers onto this rather used tree farmer C4D, I've read a bunch of stuff from the forum here but hoping someone can tell me a couple of things.

Firstly, any idea what the winch is?

Its got the ford 2700 diesel motor in it, anyone had issues with the diesel pump on these?
We had to chain it to a tree and drive the lowbed out because we couldn't get it started today sadly.
It WAS working ok when the fright guys picked it up.
I suspect they might have not turned the fuel pump on (12v pump there now) and ran it out of diesel, we cracked the pipes off the injector pump but couldn't get any fuel through?

There's a side shot of the machine, new paint hides so many evils!

Also, winch is bear, so what do people recommend for length and size of wire on these smaller machines?
I will mostly be using it for thinning smaller stuff or single large logs, I don't intend on trying to rip the machine in half, so I would be going for extra cable length over breaking point if that makes sense?

Any info appreciated :P

Cheers
Justin

HiTech · March 25, 2014, 08:26:18 AM

It looks like either a model 19 or model 119 winch. Normally there is a plate on them on the top passenger side of the winch. Could be painted over. If it is there it will tell you what winch it is. 9/16" cable works well on them. I prefer a longer cable, but many like short ones. I sometimes get in situations where a long cable is the only way to get to trees. I run 125'. That is a newer C4 so it is probably a model 119 winch.

HiTech · March 25, 2014, 08:27:14 AM

Gearmatic winch. lol forgot to put that in.

Stephen Alford · March 25, 2014, 09:47:37 AM

Hey Justin, HiTech knows his stuff but just as a possibility, looks like a hybrid to me from the pic. Thinkin a late 70's c5d with cancar 20 winch and c4 axles.

:laugh:

tj240 · March 25, 2014, 01:06:42 PM

hi tech is right i believe looks just like the winch on my tj probably a 19 gearamatic, i think its a c4 i dont remember c5s with a ford, on detroit or deutz

JustinW_NZ · March 26, 2014, 07:54:42 PM

Thanks for the info guys.

I will get it running and discover these things along the way I guess

PS - it has a plate on it with c4d from cancar, so not sure how old that makes it?

Cheers
Justin

bushmechanic · March 26, 2014, 08:29:15 PM

The winch is most likely a Cancar #20. We had a C4D with the same setup and a 254 Ford diesel. Dandy little skidder, I'm sure you will like it a lot.

JustinW_NZ · March 26, 2014, 09:54:02 PM

Quote from: bushmechanic on March 26, 2014, 08:29:15 PM
The winch is most likely a Cancar #20. We had a C4D with the same setup and a 254 Ford diesel. Dandy little skidder, I'm sure you will like it a lot.

How did the ford motor go?
from what I've heard they pretty much go forever?

Cheers
Justin

HiTech · March 27, 2014, 06:58:12 AM

I have a C4 and it has the model 119 Gearmatic winch and the diesel Ford motor. The Ford seems to run well and pulls decent. The power to weight ratio seems about right. Most often I pull in 2nd low, in hard going it is 1st high, then on hard pack it is 2nd high or 3rd low if the hitch isn't too big. lol I have hooked on to more trees than I should have a few times and they seemed to follow me to the landing. I don't think a person would want to feed a big chipper operation with one but for firewood and a few logs they are hard to beat. It will pull all the wood I can cut in a day and that is all that matters. From outside tire to outside tire it is 8' 6" wide so it is pretty sure footed. It doesn't have power shift or an air conditioned and heated cab but when something breaks you don't have take out a second mortgage to pay for the parts. lol The perfect little machine for me.

SliverPicker · March 27, 2014, 10:44:15 AM

John at Davco told me that the way to tell the difference between a CanCar winch and a Gearmatic is some bolts inside the tear drop shaped cover on the right side of the winch. There is a thrust bumper in there. The bolts holding the bumper on one have NF threads and on the other they are NC threads. Sorry, but I don't remember which are which.

JustinW_NZ · March 27, 2014, 05:20:47 PM

Thanks for that overview Hitech that's very helpful

Ones if its jobs first up will be thinning a 12ha block of hardwood, so not big pulling but tricky stuff so it needs to be nimble, and its just stacking stuff for firewood so it should be fine.

I have another job where there is some BIG timber and wonder how it can handle big logs?
I'm felling some shelterbelt eucalyptus trees and at the butt end some of them are heading into 1m (3foot) across, so pretty heavy stuff.
I don't need to drag them far, just off the fence line and over to the mill which of course I can park very close.
So I'm guessing if the logs are cut to millable length (under 6m) it should pull these ok do you think?

Cheers
Justin

mad murdock · March 27, 2014, 06:52:41 PM

I have a Garrett Model 15A which is similar sized to the C4D, maybe a smidge smaller, I would think you should be able to pull 800 bd ft of logs with no issues, I can drag 600-800 bd feet of logs with mine, and though it is a big drag, it can handle it, for ease of maneuvering though, I like to keep my drags to around 500 bd ft or so.

deutz4 · March 29, 2014, 12:10:11 AM

Bought a new C4 forwarder in 78. Cab looked just like it. Had recently changed over to square stock for cab and rollover structure. F-N-R to left of seat, H-L to right. 4 speed tran in front of you. Nice nimble machine but built too light. Clutch failures and busted planetarys were its biggest weaknesses. I still ran it for 23 years. It will treat you good if you run it like you own it.

HiTech · March 29, 2014, 06:25:59 AM

Quote from: JustinW_NZ on March 27, 2014, 05:20:47 PM
Thanks for that overview Hitech that's very helpful

Ones if its jobs first up will be thinning a 12ha block of hardwood, so not big pulling but tricky stuff so it needs to be nimble, and its just stacking stuff for firewood so it should be fine.

I have another job where there is some BIG timber and wonder how it can handle big logs?
I'm felling some shelterbelt eucalyptus trees and at the butt end some of them are heading into 1m (3foot) across, so pretty heavy stuff.
I don't need to drag them far, just off the fence line and over to the mill which of course I can park very close.
So I'm guessing if the logs are cut to millable length (under 6m) it should pull these ok do you think?

Cheers
Justin

It should handle them ok. One thing I do do is when turning with a hitch where the machine has good traction is drop the hitch till I get turned. This takes the pressure off the planetary on the side you are turning toward. I feel it helps from repair bills. Pulling a heavy hitch and turning on good going puts a lot of pressure on that one side. If it is muddy or slippery I don't do that. Like deutz4 says,"run it like you own it". It will do the job.

timberlinetree · March 30, 2014, 05:17:23 AM

Nice little skidder.

tmbrskdr40 · July 27, 2014, 08:53:06 PM

Anyone have any idea were you could find a 254 CI Dorset Ford diesel motor for a C4 Tree Farmer? The crank shaft in mine is cracked, been looking for a long time now without any luck. Does anyone know what else these motors were used in, or where to get parts? Thanks in advance.

dnash · July 27, 2014, 09:02:08 PM

I just bought a 205 Timberjack with the same engine in it. We've pulled the head to clean some junk out of the ports (sat for a while) and even finding the head gasket locally is a chore. From what I understand, the 254 was mainly a British industrial engine (water pumps etc). They also seem to be used as marine engines under the name Lehman.

There are quite a few places in the UK with retail websites if you need parts (a quick Google search should do it). I've found a few PDFs regarding maintenace etc but one of them is in Dutch. PM me if you want.

I would avoid putting one in your Tree Farmer if you can. Get a 256ci Ford out of a tractor (5000 I think) or the equivalent sized Perkins or Cummins. The parts will be much easier to find should you ever need them.

tmbrskdr40 · August 04, 2014, 07:49:48 PM

Thanks for the info.
Still looking for either the crank shaft, or a complete 254 c.i. dorset motor to replace it. No luck at any places that carry Lehman motors or the other places ;-[ Would be interested in any leads anyone might have on this.
Thanks in advance.

snowstorm · August 04, 2014, 07:57:14 PM

Quote from: dnash on July 27, 2014, 09:02:08 PM
I just bought a 205 Timberjack with the same engine in it. We've pulled the head to clean some junk out of the ports (sat for a while) and even finding the head gasket locally is a chore. From what I understand, the 254 was mainly a British industrial engine (water pumps etc). They also seem to be used as marine engines under the name Lehman.

There are quite a few places in the UK with retail websites if you need parts (a quick Google search should do it). I've found a few PDFs regarding maintenace etc but one of them is in Dutch. PM me if you want.

I would avoid putting one in your Tree Farmer if you can. Get a 256ci Ford out of a tractor (5000 I think) or the equivalent sized Perkins or Cummins. The parts will be much easier to find should you ever need them.

if its a ford lehman there were a lot of those used in boats up here. all the lehmans i have seen were an in line 6cyl. i was talking to the service manager at one one the larger boat yards and he said parts were fairly easy to get. all the ford farm tractor division was sold to iveco in 1991