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My red oak is blue?

Started by sparky23, March 20, 2014, 07:58:29 PM

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sparky23

So last summer I cut down and milled some beautiful red oak on our property to be made into flooring for our home.  They were live, big ( 30+ " )  and healthy looking so I thought this would make for some good lumber. Once we started to mill them up however, we found a lot of the wood had some major blue veins running through them, making them unsuitable for flooring. I have pulled down about 20 or 30 trees from different areas of the property ( 160 acres so they are a good distance apart ) and I've noticed it in at least 5 of them.

I'm still kinda new to the country life but I've never seen this before. It's not happening in any other species, just the red oak. It's almost as if the trees are drinking something to turn them blue. ??

Has anyone seen this before?

PS. I have pics of this on my puter but I don't know how to post them here. If someone could help me with that too...


Al_Smith

Blue streaks in oak usually  means it contains some metal .Could be anything,a nail .

My sawyer hit nails 20 feet up in an ash tree taken from the center of a woods .I assumed it to be the remains of an old deer stand .I've got a picture some place of a part of a nail I barely missed with both a carbide saw blade plus a planer knife .That would have really annoyed me if I hit it .

isawlogs

  It could also be mineral streak in the wood itself, I sawed a wack of it for a customer and he put it down for his floor, it sure came out beautifull, lots of character.   :)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Jeff

Probably old fence line in them. An oak that big has been around for generations. Blue streaks is most always indicative of iron being in the tree.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

isawlogs

 If that was all sawed and they did not hit any metal, they should be running to buy a lottery ticket!
    ;D :D
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

thecfarm

Red oak in my area will turn blue just by having it on the bunks of your mill. 
What kind of mill do you have?
Picture help,
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,61788.0.html
Have trouble,give a shout,someone wil help.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WDH

Any contact with metal will turn red oak blue or black. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Jeff

And if you get it on your hands, the only thing that will take it off is the grease from a good greasy bar hamburger.  :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

sparky23

Wow! I wasn't expecting so many replies overnight :).  I should have stated that the amount of blue in the tree is quite substantial. It runs at least half way ( and not starting at the trunk ) and there's a lot of it.

I don't own the mill, we're using my neighbor's woodmizer 40. It is blue long before it hits the mill.

shelbycharger400

pictures??   Ive got some here , short pieces that is green,  forgot about them in the shed for a few years, going to saw them out.

sparky23

Ok so I got the pic gallery figured out.  Great vid cfarm very helpful! Here are some scraps with the blue stain on them. I never bothered to take some of the long boards to give a better example :(. Hopefully you can get the jist of it tho.


  

  

  

 

shelbycharger400

My firewood chunks have the same blue green,    been told its due to the chemicals used to treat oak wilt, copper sulfate,     some call the random green blue spalt.    That one is def not from metal

Jeff

That looks like mineral stain. Here is link to an article from Timberline Magazine and Virginia tech to help you understand it.

http://www.timberlinemag.com/articledatabase/view.asp?articleID=3080
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SLawyer Dave

I'm going to take another tack on this stain.  If you look at the picture, the stain line is along a vertical axis, that extends through multiple growth rings and appears to be directly related to the natural expansion cracks that were present in the tree.  As such, I strongly suspect that this is not a "mineral stain", per se.  Further evidencing this is the pictures' clear indication that the stain is not coming from the bottom (roots) toward the top along the growth rings, but rather vertically down through these cracks.

I would bet that if you had the stain analyzed, you would find that the stain is actually the remnants of one of a number of species of blue-green algae.  As has been discussed in a number of threads, Oak trees very often will hold water within their trunks.  That water often times infiltrates the tree through broken branch stems, hollows in forks, etc.  Basically any injury or water catch. 

Temperature, acidity of the water, and a host of other factors will determine what types of mold, mildew and algae will grow in such mediums.  In my area, I find oak trees showing such water staining fairly common, though mostly they tend toward more "black", as mold and mildew are more prevalent.  I just fell and cut up an oak a couple of weeks ago that looked almost identical to that one, (though the staining was black).  It had the same checking pattern along the crack lines.  In that one, the "crack" the water resided in started about 8' up from the bottom of the tree, and extended up 40', right to the main trunk crotch of the canopy.  I know I delivered at least some of that wood the last couple of days.  I will have to go out and check the stack to see if I have any remaining that I can shoot a picture of.

On a side note, I think that wood could make a beautiful custom floor, (or furniture).  Talk about a unique way to bring color and an unusual pattern into your home.   You could also take some of the scraps and try them with the stain you were thinking of using.   Many times with any kind of "tinted" stain, the tint will either especially soak in, or sometimes not be able to penetrate such "stained" wood as well.  In either situation, you tend to lose the "color", and end up with darker and lighter brown and black shades depending on the stain.   My grandfather loved finding unique wood like that, (he worked at a lumber yard), and would buy such pieces to use in his wood shop where he could try to bring out those qualities.  So again, Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder.   

Jeff

 I'll stick with the mineral stain diagnosis.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

It isn't a blue stain due to metal.  I also don't go along with mineral stain.  All of what is called mineral in oak is a bacterial infection, and its generally black.  I see it most prominently in black oaks in my area.  That mineral will develop into shake. 

I have seen this color of stain in many types of oak, and they usually occur where there are major cracks, and sometimes around rot areas.  I don't know if I buy the algae stain.  The lumber that I've seen it in also is sort of brashy.  I think it has something to do with a fungal growth. 

My 2 cents.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

Seen it thousands of times in the mill, usually from poor sites here where black and red oak grow together. All I know is that lumber graders simply called it mineral. I think mineral is a lump all term. I'd say it almost certainly isn't from metal as well.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

WDH

Yes, I agree.  Metal is the least of that tree's problem. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

sparky23

Whatever the cause, the areas with the blue stain soften the wood to the point where it falls apart in most areas much like rot. There is no visible sign of any of this pre felling. Much like Slawyer Dave, this starts about 6-8' up and contintues anywhere from 10-30' up. I should've taken more pics of the trees as they were cut but I didn't know about this forum at the time. Oh well I'm sure there will be more this summer to show off. :(

Autocar

We call it blue crack and find it in old mature trees and poor growing sights. See blue crack might as well go to fire wood pile it seems to always twist though the log so no matter how you lay it on the carriage you can't get a good board.
Bill

isawlogs

 Was that tree dead standing ??? 
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

sparky23

It was live. The irony is I tried to pick the healthiest, straightest, knot and rot free trees I could find. I did notice it only happened on the larger (24" +) trees.

Al_Smith

I've seen color changes from oaks growing in this area which is limestone sub strata.One hundred miles straight east in Knox county Ohio where I was born it's granite and sand stone and is a slight color difference .

Yesterday for some reason I couldn't get a picture to load of a known metal stained oak .I don't know if it's my computor ,my stupidity or the forum software .I'll give it another shot.---Well that didn't work .

sparky23

We do have quite a lot of limestone in the area so that could be it, but if so, why does it cause the blue stains? And why only in red oak?

Al_Smith

It probabley has something to do with the high content of tannin in red oak .

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