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Debarker,, pros and cons

Started by reswire, March 19, 2014, 08:52:47 PM

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reswire

I am thinking of adding a debarker to my mill, but I've heard so many people say that their debarker either didn't work well, or probably wasn't worth what they spent for it.  Most dealers will tell you that it adds milling time to each blade, but the question is how much?  I was also wondering how it may or may not affect the way the blade cuts through the log.  Any ideas, comments? 
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

drobertson

It really depends on what the conditions of the logs are, If you are sawing clean logs, ones not skidded or drug through the mud and muck, well I see no real need for it. I'm not sure on how add on debarkers work, I have one on my mill and use it, and it works without issue,  but at times have not when not needed. If the logs are clean, no rocks or mud or anything else, there is no need in my opinion.   
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I can only speak for my debarker that came installed on my LT40.
It extends the sharpness of my blade by 75%.....just my guess IMO.
It does not get into my way.
It does not hinder the blade in no way shape or form from producing an A+ board.
This is an add on I can not or would not trade for anything.
It has paid for itself several times.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Chuck White

My mill left the Wood-Mizer plant without a debarker and one was added several years later by the previous owner!

I feel that the debarker extends blade-life by 5X.

I have sawn logs that I wouldn't have touched if the debarker wasn't on my mill!

In my opinion, the debarker is well worth the $1,000.00+ that it costs.

The only issue I've had with mine is the little up/dn motor just wasn't efficient enough to continually raise and lower the sawhead with the added weight of the debarker, so about a month ago I installed the upgrade version with a more powerful up/dn motor and a heavier duty gear box!

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Magicman

Since I am always sawing customer's logs most of which are dirty, I have no cons.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Magicman on March 19, 2014, 09:58:57 PM
Since I am always sawing customer's logs most of which are dirty, I have no cons.

Nothing like an honest answer and straight to the point.  smiley_thumbsup
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

customsawyer

I have had a debarker on every mill I have ever owned. Don't ask why but in the last months I have had to spend about as much time without it as I have had with it. Before the last few months I would have agreed with all above post. Since the last few months I would say that it helps about 10% of the time. Keep in mind that I am sawing logs that were used to make a logging road for the skidders to stay above the muck. Think of the worst logs you could imagine and then multiply times 50 and you are getting close to how dirty these logs are. I would have never thought that my blades would have lasted as long as they are without a debarker. All of this said I can't wait to get my debarker up and working again. ;) It might just be a warm fuzzy feeling but I miss it.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

SwampDonkey

Debarked logs could also leave clean slabs for chipping them to sell for pulp. But one would likely have to be sawing a lot to justify the chipping. Just a thought.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Brucer

The mill I learned on didn't have a debarker. We spent a lot of time with brushes and a dull axe when the logs were too dirty.

The first mill I bought didn't have a debarker. I spent a lot of time with brushes and hoses when the logs were too dirty.

The second mill I bought had a debarker -- my choice. I would never go back to a mill without one.

Sawing through a thin layer of dirt will dull your blade after a few passes through the log. Sawing through a thick layer of sandy dirt will dull your blade before you finish the first pass.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 19, 2014, 10:34:41 PM
Debarked logs could also leave clean slabs for chipping them to sell for pulp. But one would likely have to be sawing a lot to justify the chipping. Just a thought.
However it would take a rosary or ring style debarker like the Nicholson A-8 to clean the logs.
Debarker is really a miss-description as it is really just a mud saw. I went thru and replaced debarker from mount bolt out, it took several months during wet season to work all the kinks out. We sawed some real dirty logs during that time. I used a little hand scraper that a blacksmith made for me. Just give the log a spin and give it a quick scrapping to get the heaviest stuff off and saw thru the rest, some places mud was a couple inches thick, we went thru four boxes of saws during that time and I figure with the debarker I could have gotten away with about 3+ boxes.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Peter Drouin

I would not cut with out mine :)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Nomad

     If you look at the blade on a debarker that sees a lot of dirty logs, the carbide teeth are probably pretty dull.  Now think about what the teeth on a steel band would look like.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Magicman

That is a very valid point nomad.  Those once sharp and square teeth wear down to almost nothing.

I'll be using my debarker today & tomorrow.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

reswire

Are there any aftermarket debarkers available?  I don't think there are too many timberking 1600's with a debarker installed.  I'll have to call and see If they make one for my model, or if I'll have to retrofit one.  Any 1600 owner's out there with one installed?? 
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

Magicman

I doubt aftermarket debarkers from anywhere other than sawmill manufacturers.  There would not be enough market to justify it.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Brucer

There was a WM owner an hour or so away from me (now retired) who did both mobile and stationary work. He made his own debarker from an old skilsaw that had a broken handle. Made his own mount, cut off the bits of the saw he didn't need, and plugged it into the wall anywhere he had 120 V.

I didn't see it but a few of his former customers were very impressed by it.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

petefrom bearswamp

Debarker was the first add on I did with my old mill.
Wouldn't be without one.
Pete
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

bandmiller2

For me the debarker falls in the nice to have category. I've used WM's and they work but I always swung the beeping thing out of the way as soon as possible. If you cut others logs for hire as my brothers above by all means get one. If you have a small mill and don't do a lot or can control how clean the logs are you  really don't need one. Probibly a good cutoff point is if you have all the sharpening equipment you do enough volume to justify a debarker. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

YellowHammer

I saw a lot of muddy, skidded logs, and I can tell when my saw blade isn't tracking in the debarker kerf because the blade will dull very quickly.  I could saw without it, but wouldn't want to. 

I covered my beeper with a couple quick wraps of electrical tape, and control the volume that way.  I don't mind a nice gentle beep, beep as a warning, but hate the full volume, teeth rattling, road excavator style backup "BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEEP"  ;D. Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating a little, it's not that bad, but it just gets on my nerves...
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

dgdrls

I think they add value,  especially with a band mill.

Another option is a chainsaw mounted debarker to make a first pass
for an opening cut then work your successive cuts on the clean face.
less expensive and keeps weight off the mill.

DGDrls





giant splinter

My LT40HD came with one and I use it on every log that has bark still in place after it hits the deck, blade costs add up fast as you can see from the posts above.
I see the debarker as an all pros and no cons attachment, when a box of 15 blades costs over $300.00 plus tax and shipping it does not take long for it to pay for itself. I cant think of a more important item on a sawmill than a sharp blade when in the process of turning out quality lumber.
If you add up the cost of a new blade and then throw in the labor to change it out because it hit a rock in the first few feet of the first cut you have effectively  just entered a very exclusive group of sawyers ( the high dollar sawyers hall of fame) ............ add it up any way you want and you will be able to determine for yourself that debarkers in fact don't cost much to own and operate as well as reduce your overall operating expenses. Bandsaw blades are one of your biggest expenses and by protecting your investment and controlling your costs you are moving ahead in the proper direction.
There are few "free lunches" in this industry and for the most part we are all earning every penny of what we collect for all of our efforts, it makes good sense to take advantage of everything we can think of to control our expenses and keep our costs under control.
                                                                                                                                                                     GS
roll with it

Brucer

The beeping is annoying, but it's there for a reason. However ...

When I was contract sawing for a timber framer, his forklift made the same sound when backing up. Soon after I bought my second mill (with debarker) they had a couple of close calls with the forklift while backing up. Folks were getting so used to the annoying beep, beep, beep from my mill that they stopped paying attention to the forklift. True, they should have been paying attention, but the fact, some of them weren't.

So I modified my mill -- put a small plug on one of the wires to the beeper. Since I didn't have a helper right at the mill, I could safely leave it unplugged. But whenever visitors came by, I'd plug it back in.

Similar situation these days as well. If I were to leave the beeper operating all the time, I'd soon have the neighbours up in arms. So I leave it unplugged unless I have visitors when I'm sawing.


Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Chuck White

Quote from: Brucer on March 23, 2014, 02:18:20 AM
The beeping is annoying, but it's there for a reason. However ...

When I was contract sawing for a timber framer, his forklift made the same sound when backing up. Soon after I bought my second mill (with debarker) they had a couple of close calls with the forklift while backing up. Folks were getting so used to the annoying beep, beep, beep from my mill that they stopped paying attention to the forklift. True, they should have been paying attention, but the fact, some of them weren't.

So I modified my mill -- put a small plug on one of the wires to the beeper. Since I didn't have a helper right at the mill, I could safely leave it unplugged. But whenever visitors came by, I'd plug it back in.

Similar situation these days as well. If I were to leave the beeper operating all the time, I'd soon have the neighbours up in arms. So I leave it unplugged unless I have visitors when I'm sawing.

I agree, I installed a mini-toggle switch on the hot wire on my beeper for the same reasons and the same justification!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Peter Drouin

I just cut the wires off the beeper, I don't like it ;D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Magicman

I bought my sawmill used.  You say that there was supposed to be a beeper?? 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

Yes, there is supposed to be a beeper that resembles the sound of a vehicle that is backing up.

The beeper is supposed to be sounding whenever the debarker is running!

edit:  A regular automotive back-up alarm will not work!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

nk14zp

How many circle sawmills have added a mudsaw?
Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
http://belsawsawmills.freeforums.org/

terrifictimbersllc

More than once walked around the head for whatever reason and that little blade was spinning. Could do a number on a spinal column.  :o :o :o :o
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Jim H

The first job I did with a working beeper was for a repeat customer. He told me he'd pay extra if I made it stop :D. I never got around to hooking it back up. ;D
2008 LT40HDG28, autoclutch, debarker, stihl 026, 046, ms460 bow, 066, JD 2350 4wd w/245 loader, sawing since '94 fulltime since '98

backwoods sawyer

When I updated the debarker It came with the beeper, had to unplug it on the first job as the horses did not like it and were getting a bit antcy  :o.
Now little Jo uses it to get my atention with 3 quick beeps ::)
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Brucer

It's there for a reason. Assuming it's wired up correctly, if the key is switched on, the debarker is switched on, and the carriage control is set to forward, the debarker will be running -- very quietly. The sawmill engine doesn't have to be running either -- just have the key set to auxiliary.

If you're going to walk around to the front of the carriage, then the beeper may be the only thing that warns you the debarker is running.

I've made it a habit to have the key turned off whenever I walk around to the front. That's for my protection. I plug in the beeper whenever there's visitors. That's for their protection.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

thecfarm

They do make diffeant tones of beepers. Where I work was loud. We was having a hard time hearing the beep of a forklift. The guy in charge of the lifts said he could put a diffeant tone on it so we could hear it better.
With my hearing, if I was around a lift that was backing up and a de barker and they both had the same "beep" I would have no idea which one was which.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Sawyer697

Got a debarker the day I got my new mill, Do not need it all the time, but all it takes is some mud or rocks from dragged logs, and your blade is shot. If you saw dirty logs, and who does not, then a debarker is a good investment! Love mine.
1997 LTHD40G24 WM Mill. 640 Bobcat. 555 ford Backhoe, Husky 365XP
40 Acres Foresty
Custom Sawing in Geauga and Lake County
Build my own solar kiln
Build Furniture, Out Buildings
Bee Keeper, Love My Lord

Dave Shepard

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 23, 2014, 10:38:07 AM
More than once walked around the head for whatever reason and that little blade was spinning. Could do a number on a spinal column.  :o :o :o :o

The debarker blade, while dangerous, is not as dangerous as a skill saw blade. In fact, my T shirt did a pretty good job of stalling it out. The wire had gotten pulled out, so I had no idea it was still running. It didn't leave too bad of a scar. ::)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Bandmill Bandit

 I know i would not want to be with out the debarker on my mill. It sure saves blades on dirty logs. I taped a thin piece of foam over the beeper to just take that sharp edge out of the beep. It is still loud enough to hear but doesn't hurt the ears. Also thinking of adding a flashing light (red or yellow) that will activate with the beeper.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

nastcat

I was wondering why you couldn't just spray off the mud with a powerwasher before making your cut?

Magicman

Sometimes you can do very well with a hose or pressure washer.  Usually you can then be prepared for more mud or some careful log handling.


 
Here is a very recent job where the logs were picked up by a trackhoe and washed.  Even then, there was still dirt, mud, and sand and I was glad to have the Debarker.  Simple answers and solutions are not always simple.

My sawing is portable at the customer's location where water is very seldom available anyway. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

Quote from: nastcat on March 24, 2014, 08:49:04 PM
I was wondering why you couldn't just spray off the mud with a powerwasher before making your cut?


I did the pressure washer thing for a good while with my old mill that didn't have a debarker.  At the best of times in the summer it was a time consuming, wet, soggy mess due to the unpredictable rebound of the high pressure water off the bark and debris.  I couldn't help but get wet.  At other times of the year, like in the winter, spring and fall, it was just a cold, wet, soggy mess :D.

YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

customsawyer

I would think that the pressure washing would drive some dirt deeper.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

SwampDonkey

Another plus for winter snow. Ice is easier on blades than dirt. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Bandmill Bandit

The debarker is a lot less time consuming to use than a pressure washer so you end up with more lumber cut in the processing time of the logs that have mud and dirt on them.

Seems like a pretty good investment to me.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Magicman

I can not wait around for customers to pressure wash logs.  Also, when it is done, it has to be far enough from the sawmill to keep from making a muddy mess.

The idea sound good when in actuality it is not very productive.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

hardtailjohn

Quote from: Brucer on March 23, 2014, 02:18:20 AM
The beeping is annoying, but it's there for a reason. However ...

When I was contract sawing for a timber framer, his forklift made the same sound when backing up. Soon after I bought my second mill (with debarker) they had a couple of close calls with the forklift while backing up. Folks were getting so used to the annoying beep, beep, beep from my mill that they stopped paying attention to the forklift. True, they should have been paying attention, but the fact, some of them weren't.

So I modified my mill -- put a small plug on one of the wires to the beeper. Since I didn't have a helper right at the mill, I could safely leave it unplugged. But whenever visitors came by, I'd plug it back in.

Yep....safety 3rd!!!!!  I've been preaching this for years!!!! Check out Mike Rowe's video....  http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2009/08/safety-third-huh/
I'm so far behind, I think I'm ahead!

Bandmill Bandit

I have said for years that safety is no accident but neither is stupidity.

That is pretty much what Mike Rowe's video implies.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

reswire

I checked with Timberking.  It's $1695. for a debarker for my mill.   I also tried to use my blade sharpener for the first time tonight.  I couldn't believe how many missing, misshaped teeth were on my old blades.  I think I'll bite the bullet and get the debarker.  Probably worth more than the sharpener. :D
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

Chuck White

I'm pretty sure you won't regret springing for the debarker!

You'll wonder how you got along without it!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Bandmill Bandit

not sure what timber king has for a sharpener or what it is worth but I do know that I would have bought at least 2 sharpeners worth of re-sharp/shipping cost if if I had not bought the sharpening equipment at the same time I bought my mill.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

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