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Farm tractor tires in the woods

Started by Frickman, June 15, 2004, 07:00:03 PM

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Frickman

From time to time there are topics here devoted to using farm tractors for logging. If a person is careful and in the right conditions it can work well. I'll be the first to admit to pulling out a few logs with a tractor. An incident I had today though shows why farm equipment is not really built for the woods. My John Deere 440 skidder uses 16.9-30 tires, front and rear. The front tires are Firestone Forestry Special's, real, heavy-duty logging tires. The rears are regular farm tractor tires. This is because the rear bumper does not allow clearance for the logging tire treads. This machine was built in 1964 and was origonally equiped with farm-type tires.

Anyway, today while pulling a big drag I had a rear tire blow out a sidewall. Now this tire was worn, down to about 20% tread, but still in half-decent condition. The constant pounding and abuse over the years beat up the sidewall and caused it to fail. This size tire is readilly available and we'll have it running again in a few days.

The moral of this story is that farm style equipment is usually not built to withstand the rigoures of logging, so be careful and take it easy on it.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Gary_B

That was some pretty good advice, for I am one that is also guilty of using farm machinery, I have a MF 135, that I use to log with, its definely not made for the job, but I have a 8 ft. boom on the rear, and when it comes to loading, I dont know what I would do without it. Although I only run a small business, it works perfect.

Ron Wenrich

I worked with a guy who used farm tires because they were cheaper.  He mainly logged firewood, and didn't have as big a drag as with bigger wood.

He figured it was 1/3 cheaper for the farm tires.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ed_K

 I run diamond ice chains on both of my farm tractors to try and save from getting flats. both are used as low impact logging full time. the skidder I don't worry about, it wears logstompers at 25% with ring chains all around. There is a definant savings w/ farm tread. When I replace the skidder tires it'll be over 4Gs.
Ed K

ksu_chainsaw

Although we dont run our tractors as skidders that often, when our tires are worn below 30% tread, we replace them anyway.  We found that it was cheaper on other costs because you are not overcompensating for the lost traction with extra fuel.  When we took the tractor out to play in the timber, usually it was to pick up logs with the loader or to push brush into a larger pile.  Hedge and locust are not nice on any type of tires, but that was mostly what we were working with when I was home.

Charles

Ron Scott

Farm tires just don't "cut it" on commercial logging equipment when one considers the cost of recurring tire repairs and  down time to skidder/forwarder tire problems.

Chains are also hard on tires so we only use them when we have to, winter use mainly.
~Ron

Sawyerfortyish

I run ring chains on the front of my TJ year round. A lot of times you need that extra grip on wet ground or when you run over tree tops or dead logs laying on the ground. They also protect the tires. I blew a rear tire once and can tell you what a bang it can be heard a long ways off. There is a big differance between forestry tires and farm tires. Farm tires are 6 or 8 ply forestry tires are 12-16 ply depending on what you get. As the old saying goes you get what you pay for. I agree with Ron farm tires don't cut it!

slowzuki

A wise farmer friend of mine blew out a tire on his tractor from them being worn out so he bought two brand new tires as both were worn.

He got the tires back on and decided to check on the area he was cutting pulp with his horses.  Up he goes and tears the side out of one new tire while turning around :D :D

He said he bought a third tire the next day at the same place and they charged him a hundred dollars more ;D :D ;D :D

I nearly sliced open a 1/2 worn tractor tire this winter on a stump, gash was 1/2" deep, some cords showing!

I want to try some R1W tires, some are available with R1 style tread but casing from industrial tires for earthmoving equipment.  The wider industrial casing helps reduce soil compaction too.

Ken

Scott

 Some companies make special forestry tires for farm tractors. Theres a couple of brands but the only one i can think of right now is Nokka. I don't know anyone who uses them but I would think theyd be worth looking at.

ID4ster

I was at the northeast farm show in Syracuse, NY this past February and talked with the Kioti dealer about his tractor and the tires on them. I've done a lot of logging with a Kabota tractor and a Farmi winch and have not had a blowout yet even going in and around stumps. The tires on the Kabota are farm tires around six ply. When talking to the Kioti dealer I asked him specifically about the toughness of his tires. He mentioned that the front tires were 10 ply but that the back were only 6 ply. Their reasoning was that with the outfit they had on the tractor only the front tires would be encountering any stumps. I think they are being a little niave myself but didn't tell him so. Farm tires will work if you are careful but even being careful you will still put a cut or gash into the sidewall. I know that when this set of tires wears out the new ones will be woods rated with a thicker sidewall and tread ply.    
Bob Hassoldt
Seven Ridges Forestry
Kendrick, Idaho
Want to improve your woodlot the fastest way? Start thinning, believe me it needs it.

Ron Scott

When we first went from using crawlers for skidding to rubber tired units, tires were a basic problem until the "woods" tire was perfected. Now there is little or no "down time" when the proper tire is used.

~Ron

Ed_K

 I don't know Ron, I've had 2 flats this week on the taylor skidder, same wheel  >:(. I have to wait till tue, cause I used up their last 18.4-34 on Mon  :(.
Ed K

Ron Scott

That's not good! Especially if you are using "wood's rated" tires and they're "new".  :'(  Are you puncturing them or breaking sidewalls?
~Ron

slowzuki

The old mechanics where I worked one summer told me how much they hated when guys took the dozers into the woods.  They said they were forever tearing hydraulic lines and fittings off and that when they lost a track it was always in the muddiest place for miles around :D :D

QuoteWhen we first went from using crawlers for skidding to rubber tired units, tires was a basic problem until the "woods" tire was perfected. Now there is little or no "down time" when the proper tire is used.


Ed_K

 Ron, on monday it was rust inside on the rim that wore the tube thin and puntured it. New radial 18.4 34 tube. Friday it was flat again, we didn't pull it apart as they didn't have a new tube. I'm thinking it may be a defective tube. Gee I need smiliey with crossed fingers.
Ed K

Tom

Ed,
It may be sand in the tire too.  Sand will wear pin-holes in the tube. (all over it)

Sawyerfortyish

QuoteThe old mechanics where I worked one summer told me how much they hated when guys took the dozers into the woods.  They said they were forever tearing hydraulic lines and fittings off and that when they lost a track it was always in the muddiest place for miles around :D :D

For me it seems everytime a dozer gets near mud I end in knee deep stuff fixing a track. Around here theres so many rocks that it's like riding down a stonerow sometimes. Wheel machines are better.The track machins just jar your insides to run for skidding logs

Ron Scott

Ed,

Be sure that the rim is clean and "true" and that tire is also clean of rust, sand, etc. inside as Tom stated.

~Ron

Grawulf

Have any of you used "Slime" in your tires? I started using it in the ATV tires a couple of weeks ago as I was having trouble with a particularly obstinant tire wanting to go flat and I have not had a problem since. It stays liquid until there's a puncture and oozes out and seals it to stay. Won't seal big punctures but it does an awesome job  8) on anything smaller than an eighth of an inch.

Ed_K

 The tire repair guy tried the slime stuff, but I think when he blew it up when he started, he riped the valve stem.
Ed K

Ed_K

 I got lucky today  8), when we got the tire broke down and the tube out, it was a defective valve stem. Were the tube meets the stem it came apart.
 Best thing I have heard in awhile, No Charge  8).
Ed K

robotguy

anybody hear of putting foam in the tire to prevent flats ?? i checked with the local les schwab tire guys,(big tire company out here in the northwest) & they fill the tires with foam , they said it adds weight (98 lbs for a 7-17 tire) but you eliminate flats perminantly,, fella at the counter who was the farm tire guy said he does a lot of kubota tractors for the local dealer and private people with no comebacks,, only drawback i see is the added weight, i checked into no-flat tires on the internet and found one that is used for industrial / commerical construction use,, any one used this type before ??? sorry i cant remember the name , basicly it looks like any old tire but it has round holes all thru it from side to side,  thanks  robotguy.

Tom

I looked into it one time. The foam was expensive.  I wanted the weight of water and foam wouldn't let me use it.  I would have had to go to weights.  Acquaintances have said that they got a harder ride and couldn't wear the tire out.  One story was about a fellow that wore out his tire and ran on the foam inner donut.

Some of the no-flat items are a liquid that  is pumped into the tire and works like the little aerosols you by in Wally World.  They are expensive too and are only good for punctures.  I used to see a dealer advertise in TMS frequently.

I have opted to be careful, go slow and stay off of stubble and stumps. I know it will get me eventually.  We have sharp stobs of fat-lighter sticking up in the woods that are like driving over a steel spike.  My front end loader has saved me from running over most hidden obstacles.  I keep it low.


Frickman

Years ago I looked into the foam too, and found out the same thing, expensive, no weight, and rough ride. The tire dealer said it is totally impractical for the woods. Mostly he is using foam in tires used in junkyards.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Cedarman

I have run a MF165 with a Farmi logging winch logging ERC for over 15 years.  I had my first flat caused by logging about 2 years ago.  I was on an extremely hard pull and went over the top of a small stump and kapow.

To keep from having tire trouble we cut skid roads through the woods first.  Anything we cut we do it at ground level and keep it flat.  Our tree stumps are within a few inches of the ground also. We never never leave a staub  shorter than 2 feet and never cut at an angle.

I have worked over limestone rocks, hills and run over the cedar tops without problems.

The few times I have worked hardwoods we do the same thing.

We use a forwarder also and I would not think of using anything less than a good woods tire on it though. Too much weight and pulling power to use on cheap tires.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

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