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Rocked chain

Started by husky2100, March 08, 2014, 06:34:03 PM

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husky2100

I rocked my chain pretty hard and i dont have a grinder whats the best way to get it back with a hand file.

sawguy21

Can you post a picture? If you have to take it back very far you might want to consider a new chain, filing can be a chore.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

JohnG28

A lot of file strokes if it's bad, I have had a few that took 10ish a tooth, maybe little more. Just takes a little more time. If it's really wrecked and you have spares could have a shop do it to save the hassle.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

thecfarm

And it might take 3-4 filing before you have it back to where it was before "The Rock" I can kinda get it back after doing a bunch of filing strokes,but still takes 3-4 filing for me to have it just the way it use to be.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

celliott

Something I've done on real bad chains, is take a flat file and file the bad out of the teeth, mindful of your angle, until you get back the good working corner. Then go back with your regular round file to restore the profile of the tooth, sharpen until you're satisfied. It's quicker than just filing it out with the round file IMO. I don't have a grinder either, so that's what I do.

Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

Z50guru

Quote from: celliott on March 08, 2014, 08:31:30 PM
Something I've done on real bad chains, is take a flat file and file the bad out of the teeth, mindful of your angle, until you get back the good working corner. Then go back with your regular round file to restore the profile of the tooth, sharpen until you're satisfied. It's quicker than just filing it out with the round file IMO. I don't have a grinder either, so that's what I do.

I agree ^^^. Also you will need to use a flat file to lower the depth gauges (Rakers) should you need to file the cutter a good ways back.

husky2100

Its not to bad its just very dull.  Its not chipped just very very dull im just not sure how many times i should hit it with a file

thecfarm

As many times as it takes.  :D I start out with at least 6-8. Than I see how it looks. Than I saw and I see I did not see how bad it was and I file again.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

husky2100

It seems like the stihl chains are harder to get back to being sharp again.

thecfarm

So are Oregons,when they are rocked.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Philbert

Quote from: husky2100 on March 08, 2014, 06:34:03 PMI rocked my chain pretty hard and i dont have a grinder whats the best way to get it back with a hand file.

This is one of those areas where a grinder is a big advantage.  You can take it to a shop and have them bring it back, then go back to filing.  Or find a friend with a grinder. Or spend a lot of time filing.

Philbert

husky2100

My oregens arnt to bad ill hit it twice my stihl you use a whole file to get her sharp again.

luvmexfood

You might won't to look into getting a cheapie grinder. I bought a Harbor Freight for 29 bucks. Not the best in the world but usually does pretty good. Needs a few tune-ups out of the box. Found the tune-ups somewhere on the net. But not bad for the money.

Rocked a chain real bad yesterday. I usually file once or twice when fueling before grinding but this one will need the grinder first.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

JohnG28

I have thought the same of Stihl chain. Oregon files out pretty easy. Stihl files work better for their chain too, but the Pfred ones work well too.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

husky2100

I think oregen chains are better brcause my 2100xp ripped several cutters of when i hit a fence. I hit it twice with a file good to go stihl nope i went trough a file just to get it to cut and all the links were still their.

sawguy21

Quote from: JohnG28 on March 08, 2014, 08:15:56 PM
A lot of file strokes if it's bad, I have had a few that took 10ish a tooth, maybe little more. Just takes a little more time. If it's really wrecked and you have spares could have a shop do it to save the hassle.
If it was that bad I would scrap it, my time is worth more than a new chain.
Plus I don't have the patience. ;D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Philbert

Almost any chain can be saved. Chain grinder for rocked cutters. Spinner/ breaker to replace damaged links. Grinding/buffing wheel for burrs.

Might not be worth your time. I get a lot of satisfaction out of it.

I found rust to be more of a difficult challenge, in many cases, than cutting damage, but even that can often be resolved.

Philbert

JohnG28

Quote from: sawguy21 on March 08, 2014, 11:47:33 PM
Quote from: JohnG28 on March 08, 2014, 08:15:56 PM
A lot of file strokes if it's bad, I have had a few that took 10ish a tooth, maybe little more. Just takes a little more time. If it's really wrecked and you have spares could have a shop do it to save the hassle.
If it was that bad I would scrap it, my time is worth more than a new chain.
Plus I don't have the patience. ;D

I'm no pro so I don't have a lot of saw maintenance to do anyway. And it doesn't take all that long, 10 15 min for a 20" bar. Rarely use the 24" so that's no big deal. To the OP, you said it was just really dull, not rocked, so start with maybe 5 or 6 a tooth and see how your edge looks and feels. Try it and do more if needed. In time it comes pretty easy, IMO. And keep them out of the dirt in the first place, if you can of course.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Andyshine77

Stihl chain is no harder to file than any other chain. If you're going through a file per chain you're doing something wrong. Are you dragging the file on the back stroke? If so you'll kill a file in no time, remember a file only cuts in one direction. You may have also over heated the chain, which can can make the chain harder to file in my experience.
Andre.

Al_Smith

FWIW you can buy little round cylindrical stones that fit in a Dremel type rotary tool .They do a good job salvaging a rocked chain .

As far as files you'd just as well buy good ones .Oregon by the way is not a better grade of file .Pferd,Save Edge to name several .Oberg if you can find them .That stuff Baileys sells has one that is less aggressive than Pferd and it works better for me on that rock hard Stihl chain .

Dave Shepard

Quote from: Andyshine77 on March 09, 2014, 08:48:13 PM
Stihl chain is no harder to file than any other chain. If you're going through a file per chain you're doing something wrong. Are you dragging the file on the back stroke? If so you'll kill a file in no time, remember a file only cuts in one direction. You may have also over heated the chain, which can can make the chain harder to file in my experience.

When trying to file away a blunted beak on Stihl chain, it is much harder than any of the other brands I've used, such as Oregon, Husky and WoodsmanPro. When I rock one of those, the file cuts right through it, chrome and all.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

HolmenTree

At the moment I'm sitting at a resort in Punta Cana far away from my chainsaws, but I'm going back home tomorrow. Had enough rum, taking it easy, 90° heat and now ready to get back home and cut some wood. :D

I can't resist posting this so here we go.....Running a tree service over the years I have hung many a rocked out chain on a nail on the wall and let them hang there for years. Many of them were brand new with only a few cuts in service before hitting a rock or chunk of steel.
I always hand file [to keep my skills up] and never bothered with a bench mount grinder in all my 40 years of making a living with a saw.
Getting a little older and sometimes wiser [I think if I can remember right] ;D about 10 years ago I picked up a nice little cordless 4 1/2" hand held angle grinder from True Value.
I always keep it fully charged in the back of my pickup and if I should ever rock out my chain bad and have some time to spare I'll get it out, apply the saw's chain brake and gently touch up the cutters until I'm into a square edge corner again. Then I take the file and finish up with the proper angles and sharp cutting edge again.

Saves a ton of files, time, chain and I don't have to be in the shop in the late hours sharpening chain or say the heck with it and hang it on the wall for years down the road.
Trick is with the angle grinder and the grinding disc, don't apply too much pressure to the cutter tooth or you'll turn it blue and then your left with a useless chain. Just gently touch the cutter in a light repetitive on and off pressure until the rounded off corner is gone. Takes only a few minutes for all the cutters on the chain.

And one other note it takes a lot more then just one file to file a chain from brand new and down to the witness marks. Your only wasting your time and getting yourself discouraged filing with a dull file, no matter how you take care of it lifting it on the back stroke ,cleaning it, etc.
It takes a sharp file to hand file a saw chain proper, files are cheap for the work the saw chain gives you for profits in return.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Andyshine77

Quote from: Dave Shepard on March 09, 2014, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on March 09, 2014, 08:48:13 PM
Stihl chain is no harder to file than any other chain. If you're going through a file per chain you're doing something wrong. Are you dragging the file on the back stroke? If so you'll kill a file in no time, remember a file only cuts in one direction. You may have also over heated the chain, which can can make the chain harder to file in my experience.

When trying to file away a blunted beak on Stihl chain, it is much harder than any of the other brands I've used, such as Oregon, Husky and WoodsmanPro. When I rock one of those, the file cuts right through it, chrome and all.

I personally have not had any issue filing blunted Stihl chain with good files, Save Edge or Stihl branded. I have not had the best luck with Oregon files. I also start out with a smaller file on rocked chain, that way you get under the chrome. :)
Andre.

jwilly3879

Hand it on a nail in the shop and put on a new one. Then on a rainy day set up a bar in the vice, get a comfortable stool and go to work. Flat file then round works well but an angle grinder and a light touch is faster but a decent grinder then hand file works well also. If I figure out what my time is worth when cutting I'm farther ahead to switch chains and worry about the rocked one when I'm not busy.

CTYank

For a bargain grinder, forget the HF and spend a few more bux for the northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company ~$100 one. Get some Molemab wheels (1/8" and 3/16") from Bailey's. That combo works great for me. With any grinder, give the cutters quick hits only; slowly grinding them will overheat them.

(Let's see if we're past protesting NT's bogus LogRite tools; that's a dead horse.)

For filing, use Granberg's guide. Else you'll make a mess of a really rocked chain. After grinding, it can help you make a chain razor-like. I've used that guide for seriously rocked chains back when- that's why I've a grinder now.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

Al_Smith

 :D Say what if you don't use a Grandberg guide you'll never get a sharp chain ? Really now .Is this to say the old Oregon file guide won't work let alone free hand filing ? I never knew that .Gee wizz I've been doing it incorrectly for years .Tsk tsk on me . ;D

Dave Shepard

I personally don't use any grinders, they seem to case harden the cutters, and I always free hand file.

In my opinion, NH has more strikes against them than just their transgressions against LogRite. Just because it happened some time ago, is no reason to forget it.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

sharkey

Practice makes perfect, so get out the file and go to work.  You wont learn any other way and if you plan to run a saw you will need the skill.

luvmexfood

Quote from: Dave Shepard on March 11, 2014, 08:51:34 PM
I personally don't use any grinders, they seem to case harden the cutters, and I always free hand file.

In my opinion, NH has more strikes against them than just their transgressions against LogRite. Just because it happened some time ago, is no reason to forget it.

Dave you sound like me. "Just because it happened some time ago, is no reason to forget it." Ate at a cafeteria stlye restaurant back around 1983. Being in my early twentys then I had a pretty healthy tray of food that I had selected plus a roll. Well they proceeded to charge me .15 cents each for a couple of those little butter pats that used to come between paper. Asked about it and they said it was policy. Paid for my and my then wife's meal. Then told the poor cashier it was my policy if I didn't like the company's policy I would take my business elsewhere. Never set foot in that place again. Sometimes it's just the principal.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Woodboogah

I find stihl chain harder to get a corner back after hitting something.  Seems harder.  A sharp file and a lot of strokes will get your rocked chain back in working order.   
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

LeeB

Would a three sided file make it any easier to get it back and then dress with a round file?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

HolmenTree

From experience I find the Stihl cutters working corners when rocked out most times will just break off and don't round over so much as the Oregon's always seem to do.
So with that corner entirely missing you have less filing to do :D

But seriously the main reason Stihl chain is harder to file is not so much the hardness of their cutters but the thickness of material they possess. This is one of the reasons Stihl switched from the 7/32" file spec down to the smaller 13/64" file to help out in the filing effort department of their 3/8" chain.

Oregon chain is more streamlined with a thinner design.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

For my rocked out stumper saw chains I bought this new 20V cordless 4.5" angle grinder the other day to replace my old one.

Like I said before in a earlier post I keep a cordless angle grinder in my truck. When I'm on the tree service job and rock out the chain on my bigger saws bad enough, I grab the grinder and can bring the cutters back to square working corners in several minutes on a 36" b/c.
Trick is not to apply to much pressure and blue the cutters, touch the disc with light on and off pressure. Then I can go back and finish the stump lowering  job until I can find time to finish the chain up with the hand file.
It's surprising how well the chain cuts with just grinding back the cutters with the grinding disc without finishing up with the file. But it doesn't cut that great and doesn't hold a edge for long. I always finish up with the file putting in the proper angles and cutting edge.
I've shown a few fire wood cutters this trick and their happy with their chains performance with just the grinder sharpening by it's self, they just keep grinding back the cutters.. :D
 

  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

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