Which Tractor????

[GAV64]

Gentlemen,

I have started looking for my first tractor, something that will work both in the woods (pulling logs with grapple) and be capable of  final grading, road grading and mowing, both brush hog and finish. I have been using a skid steer for 6 years but it does not do well in the woods, is tough on the grass and i am tired of pulling things backwards. I am looking at deere, new holland, kubota, kioti, mahindra and century. my questions for all you knowledgable folks.

1. HP I was thinking 28 to 35 hp. too small?

2. hydrostatic or not

3. good/bad experience with brand (no bashing others)

I have been lurking on tractorbynet for a while but a lot of dealers post over there, the ford vs chevy thing.

background info: 6 acres at home in CT mixed hardwoods on hilly terrain. 10 acre vacation home sight in MA mixed hard and softwoods on hilly terrain.  I want to be able to transport it so it cant be too big. thanks for your help ahead of time. glenn

[Tom]

I have a Ford 1910 that I bought in 1984.  It's been a real workhorse.  It has 4 wheel drive (a must} and a "quick attach" front end loader that has only been removed one time.

It maintains my drive, bush hogs the property, used to plow the garden, carries a little fill dirt or tools and pulls logs from the swamp.  Maximum sizes that I care to hook to are in the range of 25" dia. and 20' long.  It'll pull more but doesn't handle well.

A ROP (roll over protection) is necessary for ease of mind.

I think the best thing I like about it is the size.  It doesn't tear the place up like some of the larger tractors.  

The front-end loader is nice too. A little dirt adds weight to a light front end when necessary.  Lowered to a foot off of the ground, ilt protects the radiator and tires from old stumps when easing through the understory.  It is also a big help in getting logs positioned for skidding.  I have chain hooks welded across its top.

[Norm]

The first three tractors you list would be my preference in that order. I have used John Deere tractors for the last 15 years without any problems but the others are great tractors also. At that point I like to see which dealer will give me the most tractor for the dollar. Right now I'm considering a Case-IH for a row crop tractor, John Deere has lots of business and is not willing to dicker very hard.

I prefer a clutch with a power shift option in tractors over 35hp, under that hydro's are fine. FEL's are a must, you'll be amazed how much you'll use it.

I would not go much under 35hp for a tractor that's to be used in the woods, a heavier frame is more stable.

[shopteacher]

I have a Massey Ferguson 1240E. One great little machine. Has a quick detach Woods front loader and backhoe.  Fourwheel drives w/ROPS, shuttle shift forward & reverse, 16 speeds both forward and reverse. Mitibishi diesel, I believe 35 hp. not sure anymore.  Locking rear drive wheels so both turn at the same time. 3 point hitch and drawbar. Woods estate mower. Might be interested in selling.

[whitepe]

GAV64,
I hang out a little bit over in tractorbynet also.
"same user name"   I agree with Tom on the 4 wheel
drive thing.   I helped a future neighbor fell a couple of
trees Saturday. He's clearing a lot for a new house.
I've got a John Deere 4310 (32 hp) 4WD eHydro with 430 Front
End Loader that I used to drag the logs out of his
lot.  I would spin the rear wheels with just 2WD engage
but had no trouble with 4WD.  The logs were about 20 inches dia. and about 10.5 feet long. This 4310 is a good
match for my use since I also have the woodmizer LT15.
If the log is too big for my 4310 then it is probably too
big for my LT15.  The sales guy at my Deere dealership
told me that he has never met a customer who complained
about having too much horsepower.
Tonight I am having a couple of logs sawed by Everett
Miller that are too big for my LT15. Everett has an LT40
and last fall he bought a used 62 hp 4WD Zetor with a Kelley
loader for $10K.  I saw it used Friday for the first time
when I took the logs over to unload them. Nice tractor.

Whatever you buy,  make sure you pick a dealership
that will treat you right and pick a dealership that
you don't have to drive a zillion miles to pick up any
parts / accessories.  Of course since my 4310 is
only one year old... most of my trips have been
for accessories.   I chose a smaller Deere dealership
about 20 miles away that does not sell ag products.
They only sell lawn & garden,  4000 Ten series tractors
and 5000 series tractors.
Oh yes... I forgot... do you want to buy new or used?

[Ed]

I have had excellent results with my new holand 2120 (43 pto hp), picked it up 2 years ago right at the end of production, It's 4wd with the oversize ag tires. I would highly recommend both options it they are available.
Take a seroius look at the 3pt lift capacity of the tractors you look at, my main reason for getting the 2120 was the 3pt was far stronger than anything else I could find.
Mine has the shuttle shift trans, only because I don't have a loader on it. Since I have a Bobcat, a loader was unnecessary for me. I you are going to put loader on, go with the hydro trans. It's much easier to use with the loader (no clutch). Since you are used to a skid steer (like me), it's to darn easy to pick up somethig & not have to worry about the throttle & clutch.
I used to use my fathers John Deere 955 for skidding, it's a really light tractor (about 33 hp) with turf tires & 4wd. If the log was hooked right up close to the 3 pt hitch it was unreal what that little bugger will pull.

[MrMoo]

I have a Ford 1710 and really like it. I agree with Tom about the 4WD. Its 26 hp and there are times I wish it had a bit more. So far though it has powered all the attachments I have hooked up to it.

[beenthere]

I am happy with my Deere 4300 (4wd and hydro), which is the mid-size chassis of the Deere compact utility line. I use it in the woods and only worry about catching 'things' underneath with sticks, etc. and think I should get some armor under it. I especially like the fork attachment, which quick-changes with the bucket. I found the forks are great for moving logs around in the woods, to get them in a better position to drag or haul out, and help prevent damage to other trees. Also, great for moving tops to pile for brush removal and cleaning up. Most of the 8'4" logs I carried out of the woods on the forks. Keeps them clean and the trails with less rutting. I like the R-4 tires for min. compaction, but find they also have less traction at times in the woods dragging large logs (never ran out of traction as easily with ag tires on previous Deere). But, the R-4's are more puncture-proof, I believe. I like the I-match quick-tach 3pt for quickly switching between 3pt attachments and the ballast box.
For brand, I would put the dealer on top of the decision. I have 'green' blood, and fortunately a great Deere dealer within reach to keep it green. But, the decision for color would likely change if this dealer wasn't the best choice. And for some reason, he is very busy too.  ???

PS. Getting on and off a tractor is so much easier than getting in and out of a skid steer. And, for me, there are too many times when I want to get out of a skid steer when the bucket arms are in the air. Not good, nor safe, but easier with a tractor.

[Scott]

 For working in the woods I'd try to get something in the 40-60 Hp range. 4x4 is a must around here and if you can get locking differentials its worth the money. A quick attach loader is also worth looking into. Be sure to add proper gaurding before you start working or else that tractor will take an awful beating.

[OneWithWood]

I bought my John Deere 670 about fifteen years ago.  I have abused this tractor in just about every way known to man but I have not been able to hurt it.  At 18hp it is whoefully under powered.  30hp and up is a must.  FEL is a must. 30hp at the PTO is a must.  Whitpe's 4310 would be an excellent choice.  The next size up but still in the compact line would be ideal.

[slowzuki]

People are mentioning a bunch of great stuff but I'll throw my 2 cents in:

Check weight as well as hp.  I'd say 3000lb is about as light as you should go to be able to handle decent logs.  4000-5000 lbs would be better.

You won't use hardly any power during woods working.  A big bushhog sounds like your biggest power use.

Hydro is awful nice in hilly terrain, in flat ground a shuttle equiped manual is ok.

Take a look at a universal quick-attach on the loader so you can swap buckets/pallet forks/etc.

4wd is required.

I used a 50 hp ag tractor (about 9000 lbs) this winter in the woods and a cab is nice.  It was really too big to turn easily and I was working on hills so shifting etc was kind of a pain.

Once a good skid road is in place its not so bad.

I'm partial to kubota's, I'd suggest one of the Grand L 30 series, perhaps an L4330 for the bigger loader capacity.

Edit: Kubota have good deals on their smallest utility tractor the MX5000.  It has really good loader, good ground clearance, low center of g and is 50 hp. /Edit

My friend has a JD around the 35 hp mark that he sure likes but the loader is weak.

Another friend works in the woods with a bigish NH and likes it.

The kiotis are proving to be well built and reliable but the bucket curl on the factory loader is weak.  A DK35 would be the starting point to look at.

Ken

[RSteiner]

Along with the many good suggestions already mentioned I would just add that the type of terrain you have to deal with will make the decision easier.  The compact tractors tend to be narrower than the utility class tractors.

If money is not an issue consider the utility class, Kubota makes an M-series which fits the bill.  The more the horsepower generally the bigger and wider the tractor.  If the land you will be working has moderate to steep slopes you will appreaciate the comfort of a wider wheel base.  In the woods you may encounter stumps, rocks and holes which tend to make the ground more uneven.  The only down side is they take a bigger circle to turn around in.

I have used a Ford 8N for many years in the woods with a Farmi winch on the back.  This tractor moved a lot of logs, what I couldn't drive to the winch pulled to a trail.  I now have a 30 hp. Kubota with the same winch which works well for me.  Four wheel drive and power steering is a nice addition which the Ford 8N did not have.

One small issue with compact tractors is the horse power to weight ratio.  Horsepower is not all that useable if there is too little weight to keep good traction.

Randy

[Typhoon]

I am also a member over at the TractorByNet. I have a 2002 New Holland TC29D. It is 29 HP, hydrostatic, 4wd with a new holland 7308 loader. You are going to hear a lot of opinions from a lot of different people. To me all of the brands are good. But there are a couple of things that I will strongly recommend, and you will hear the same recommendations consistently across the board, regardless of brand.
Here they are, in this order..
1. Get a loader. You will use it every single day that you use the tractor. There are literally a million things you can use it for.
2. Get 4wd. My tractor will perform 5 times better in the woods (pulling logs and treetops out) in 4wd. If I put it in 2wd, it cannot transfer the power to the ground.
3. Get a Hydrostatic transmission. I test drove a couple of gear tractors. I liked them. Then I drove the Hydro. SOLD!! For doing loader work and mowing, and just about anything else, the hydro  really shines.
4. Load the rear tires. I promise you will wish that you did later down the line if you dont.
5. Get Industrial tires if you ever plan on using a finish mower. They get great traction, yet will not gouge your yard like the ag tires will.
All of these suggestions were given to me by the tractorbynet before I bought my New Holland. I followed every suggestion and to this day it has saved me loads of money and time. Good luck with your choice. It will be the best investment you will ever make.
You will never want to get off of it!!!  ;D
-Brad

[Dom]

My father has a John Deere 1070. Its 4wd with a rear locking diff., around 40hp with loaded rear tires to help with traction. Its a good tractor to work around the yard, I've used it plenty for bush clearing. The only bad thing I can say about it, is the clutch pads are made of metal and if you don't use your tractor often, the clutch will rust together.  >:( Its not a good experience, we now start it and drive it at least once every 2 weeks. Our JD is actually a Yanmar.  

What ever you buy as a tractor, do not try to do things it was not built do to and it should work well and last you a long time. Many people buy 25-40 hp tractors and buy attachements for 50-60hp tractors, this can be hard on the tractor if the attachement is used at its full potentiel.

[neslrite]

GAV64,
   I have a 4wd New Holland 1920 with a backhoe, loader, chipper, forks, and brushmower and am very happy.
  I see you are in Bolton if you wanted to call the LogRite # at 1-800-631-4791 I would be glad to let you come look. I have used  my machine to move some pretty big logs both with the forks and skidding them.
Kevin

[Corley5]

Check out the new Farmalls.  I looked at them a few days ago and was impressed and the best part is they are made in the USA.  The only compact tractors that are still made in the US.  I'm partial to the DX 55.  Looks to be just the right size and with a base price of $23,000 with a FEL the price isn't bad either 8)
http://www.caseih.com/products/series.asp?Reg=NA&RL=ENNA&id=2482&mod=true&segid=

[RMay]

 I got a new 4-WD Century with a quick-attach loader with bucket/ pallet forks & industrial tires .I was looking for a tractor that I could haul on a 16 foot trailer . It is in the 45 hp. range , so for I like it but I have not got but 14 hours on it . I have been a Deere man but the price between a Deere and Century was alot  : I looked at all the brands before I went with Century. good luck ;D

[Plowboy]

I'm a Deere man myself, but you should take a good look at the New Holland and Case IH.  These tractors are pretty decent and reasonably priced.  Deere also makes a good machine.  I would stick with these brands because they are selling a lot of this sized tractor right now and parts for these will be plentyful years down the road.  Maybe you should spend the day and got out and test drive a few different brands and see what you think.  

Norm, take a hard look at those Case IH tractors now.  The ones I've looked at didn't have a acess hole out the back of the cab to route wires or a rope for a pin.  Also the electrical connections in the cab are not similar to other tractors or even to the older Case IH.  At work we have had a couple New Hollands about 120 hp and these were the problems were running into. Our Mx 150 is very friendly that way, it has electrical plugs that match our monitors and place to run a wire harnass out of the cab.  With the merger of the Case and New Holland things are all screwed up and that is why you can buy the Case and New Holland tractors cheaper.  Just something to look at when you are tractor shopping.  

[Frank_Pender]

I have been using a Deere 5300 for the last 6 years.  It is rated just at 50hp and a 4 x 4.  The loader is a must.  I got the quick disconnect as well as the quick disconnect for the bucket and built my own forks system.  I us a Valby chipper for counter weight most of the time as well as for chipping the smaller scrap from the mill.  Larger scrap become firewood that is cut from the mill operation.  When it is full I have 1/4 of a cord, saw it and dump it into the truck for sale or my own use in the Taylor stoves.

[davefrommd]

My brother sent me out last year to look at all the tractors and he decided buying a Newholland TC33D. Newholland is a ford tractor. It is a diesel engine with hydrostatic transmission and is ready for an available front end loader. I use a 6' wide bush hog for cutting the fields and a small crane type thing in the back mounted on a 3 point hitch for lifting up 12' long logs cut for firewood from the woods. We are starting on a second year and this 4x4 tractor is super. We use a 6' grading blade for the gravel driveway and for removing snow.

We didn't like john deere because they looked less  heavy duty. The massy ferguson had the same old style and it looked like the same old tractor without any new styling. Kubota was our first choice however when we saw the glass fuel bowl mounted so low to the ground we changed our mind.
Tractors are used on trails, woods fields and having a glass fuel bowl mounted so low to the ground I just didn't like it. I have run the newholland tractor about 60 hours and I like it very much.  dave

[Madman_Mark]

I have a 55 HP 4WD with FEL and a Farmi logging winch.
I use it in the the woods comercially 2 or 3 days a week.
If you're getting something to use for hauling logs make sure it has a FEL. It adds all kinds of weight on the front which you need to keep the tires on the ground and you can carry all the gear (saws,fuel,tools etc...) with room to spare. It can also be used as a work bench in the woods and plows the road to get in to work when you get snowed on. Make sure it has a FEL.
Also make sure it has ROPS.
About transmissions, as long as it has one that works is the main thing but thats up to you.
I'm not really familiar with mowing and bush hogging so I can't give opinions on that part.
35 HP would be too small for me but if your not in a hurry to get wood to the roadside it would probably be fine.

[Engineer]

Lemme throw my two cents in.  I've got a Deere 4100, 4WD, Hydro, quick attach loader and forks, loaded rear tires, and I use the 3 pt. for a chipper and a york rake.  

It's too small.

Sure, it's a nice little tractor for someone who's not going to abuse it, maybe tow a small bush hog or belly mower, but for what I need, it's proven itself not to be up to the task.  Most likely, I'll trade it in for a 4310 or 4410 in four or five years.  Then again, maybe it'll be fine for what I need when the time comes.  I do know that I can't pick up more than about an 800 pound log with the forks, and even a full bucket of stone gets it tippy.

I'd definitely go for a Deere, although I'm very loyal to my local dealer (Martinka's in Shaftsbury, VT) and he usually gives me a deal I can't refuse.  If you travel on down to Shelton, CT, there's Joe Martinka, a brother, who runs the Deere dealership there.  Hopefully the great customer service runs in the family.  

The other options I'd be looking at if I wanted a new machine would be New Holland, Gehl or Kubota.  I don't much like the new Kubotas, the New Hollands seem to be really sharp looking, well made and reliable.

[Norwiscutter]

I just got a new holland tc35 last month. FEL and Forks with the quick attach system.  The tractor is a beauty... i was worried that the 35 would be too small...but as the 35,40, and 45 horse new hollands are the same tractor with different engines, it is perfect for what I am doing.  The 16LA front end loader is rated to lift 2000 lbs., although I try not to lift that much as I don't want to beat on it.  I liked the John Deere's but they did seam less heavy duty than the New Holland... probably just me though.  Go to the web site for corriher impliment, They beat the local dealers on the price of my tractor by $4000 dollars, even with shipping.  I wish I could of kept my purchase local, but for four grand, I had to go that route.
Last and most important, make sure you fill the rear tires with fluid.  It really stabilizes the tractor for your work with the FEL.

[Norwiscutter]

http://www.corimpco.com/mortrac.asp

this is the link to the site with different tractors for sale.  At least it will give you a point of refference for pricing ranges.

The 48 and 55 horse tractors are also the same size with different motors.

[Tom]

Norwiscutter,  I water all of my tires, front and rear.  It handles better, especially if you have 4 wd.    Most tractors are looking for more weight rather than less.  You gotta keep those tires stuck to the ground or they can't do anything. ;D

Mowing lawns might be a little different :-/ :P

[SwampDonkey]

On the farm we used a John Deere 3950 to load logs and 100 inch poplar onto straight truck. Never took a tractor in the woods much, cause we never had a winch, just chains. We had an old 60's tree farmer for yardin woods, before that 'black beauty'. ;)

[woodmills1]

I have a Kioti 3054 and it has taken every bit of abuse I have given it.  I pull a metavic forwarding trailer behind it, and if you want a versitile piece of equipment check them out a payeur.com.  I have been in the woods on my main trail as well as off the trail, and the smaller size makes it less likely to get stuck between trees in tight areas.  I also travel over the road doing yard cleanups or small logging or demolition jobs around my neighborhood.  This tractor has spent most of its 1600 or so hours reved up to 2600 rpm and working hard.  It has shuttle shift and I would not get a manual trans without one.  Complaints? the seat area around the foot pedals is a bit tight and I have to be careful getting off.  The new series Kiotis have the flat wide open floor.

[Scott]

The New NH TN-A tractors are beautiful. Take a look!
http://www.newholland.com/h4/products/products_series_detail.asp?Reg=NA&RL=ENNA&NavID=000001277003&series=000005286911

[Typhoon]

And add this to what I posted earlier... I highly recommend Corriher Implements as well. They beat my local dealer by $3,500.00 and they included shipping in the deal. Talk to Brandon. He will fix you up.
He is their internet salesman, and goes by the prices that they list on Ebay. 9 out of 10 guys that have New Hollands that I know went through Corrihers. Good luck!

[arj]

GAV64
        Check out Mahindra Tractors real nice machines
             http://www.newenglandtractor.com/

[whitepe]

Yes... the Mahindra tractors are nice.
They can sure sell them inexpensively when
workers in India get paid approximately
$100-$125 per month and they work in
squalid conditions.  :-/

[ksu_chainsaw]

I have an older farmall 706 diesel, which is around 100 hp, and right now, they are selling for around the same price as a new John Deere.  I have dealt with tractors with the hydro tranny, and I prefer a shuttle shift transmission for lots of loader work.  We also have a 60hp IMT, which is an imported tractor made of Massey parts.  It was made in Yugoslavia, and we have had nothing but problems with it.  Not that import tractors are all bad, but you need to look ahead and see if you will be able to get parts for that tractor in the future.  For a inexpensive tractor, I would look for an older John Deere, Farmall, or Case.  I say this because parts are cheaper and are easier to find without having to go to the dealer.  Also, the mechanics that work on them are cheaper to go to.
Just my thoughts

Charles

[whitepe]

Can anyone spell  BELARUS ?   ;D

[Mark M]

You could get one of these John Deere 59 7/8's.

The hat's optional.  ;)

[slowzuki]

Beware of some older tractors that weren't as popular, a friend had a 40 hp Case / IH that he sold.  Just on a whim he checked what a replacement injection pump would run and a rebuilt one was 5000$.  Apparently there were not many made of the particular model.

Any tractor part is generally expensive, the input flange on front axle for the tractor I use was 600$ new or 250$ from a yard.  Took a month to find one in a yard.

 For a inexpensive tractor, I would look for an older John Deere, Farmall, or Case.  I say this because parts are cheaper and are easier to find without having to go to the dealer.  

[Dom]

Can anyone spell  BELARUS ?   ;D

My father had a 825 4wd for the farm quite a few years ago. The engine was great, the rest for horrible!    :D  I remember riding in it on the road with a load of hay behind (8 6'x6' round bails) and all of a sudden the front wheel locked up while going downhill! Now that was scary!

[yieldmap]

I'll be the oddball.

For yardwork, I use a 1960's Oliver 1750 Diesel.  It's a full size tractor, about 90 HP, Diesel for good lugging, strong hydraulics, rear weights.  I've got a 30-year-old Stan-Hoist loader with a Westendorf quick-tach, for the bucket, forklift forks, and boom.  This tractor is the best for moving logs, with the forks.  I unloaded 22 logs off the trailer the other day in just a few minutes, 2 at a time! (OK, small logs).

For heavy fork work, I use a Woods 3 point hitch forklift.  It will lift 3500 pounds with ease, and still get around outside.

Fork work inside the shed (moving pallets, stacking wood on shelving for final drying, etc) is done with a 1960-something Allis Chalmers forklift.  I got for $100 and a little welding work.  Leaks oil, smokes, but will not quit!

The "skidder" is a 1957 Cat D2.  Now, that's a tractor!!  It'll pull whatever you put the chain on.  Just don't get it in the sand  :...it can get stuck.

[D._Frederick]

Yield-,

A 1957 D-2 is about the last year that Cat. made that model, is yours a direct electric start? I just hate that pony engine for starting, but around here the direct start crawlers go for close to $10K if the under carriage is good. I have a 22 Cat that My dad bought in 37. I can plow a 1/2 acre while the guy with a D- 2 is trying to get that cranky pony engine started.

[yieldmap]

Off the top of my head, I think they made D2's for a few more years.  The s/n is 5u16000-ish.  I think they went past 18,000.

No direct electric start.  The pony does have an electric start, though.  Dad wouldn't have gotten it without it.  It's got the 2A blade, with manual tilt and angle.  Front hook, belly skid plate, PTO, drawbar, 1 extra Hyd remote.  Just about all the options.

There's a technique to starting the pony and engine.  We've got it down pretty good, so it starts well.  Just takes a whiff of ether and she's ready to go!

[ScottAR]

'57 was the last year for D2's.  That's a nice one!

[D._Frederick]

Its even got the seat tank with it! The D-2's are in demand out here to use in grapes and berries. It was the last small crawler that was built to last.

[Corley5]

Saw a D-2 sell yesterday for 750.00.  No blade didn't look like it ever had one.  Sprokets weren't too bad and the tracks looked good.  Engine ran good but smoked, steered good and sounded good.  The pony however didn't appear to run as the plug wires weren't even hooked up.  I have no idea what year it was but a pretty good looking machine overall

[whitepe]

When I first started to work at CAT back in
1976,   They sent all new hires to two weeks
of machine operations at our Proving Grounds.
It was quite fun and we got to operated nearly
every machine that CAT made at that time.
During one of those weeks,  one of the guys
got a CAT wheel loader to heavily loaded and
the bucket too high.  It rolled over on it's side
into the pile of dirt.  No one got hurt but for
weeks whenever that guy left his desk and
came back,  his office chair was laying on it's side.
He also acquired the nickname of "Side Dump"

[beenthere]

I was at a John Deere 'proving' (or 'playing') field day a couple times (a few years ago), and they had all the 'other' brands there to drive and put through their paces as well as Deere. Great fun. The work came after, when reporting on each feature on each tractor driven.  But these things, if done honestly, help them make their decisions.

Whitpe  
How do you get your posts to be 'left justified' ?  

[Egon]

The fact you must trailer the tractor may be the deciding point. Pick the largest that you can comfortably trailer and be legal. Four wheel drive and a loader should be must's. For me HST would be a benefit others will prefer different transmissions. This can be hotly debated but comes down to personel choice. Chains may also be considered.

Egon ???