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Log handling at the mill?

Started by wvwoodbutcher, February 28, 2014, 10:53:47 PM

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wvwoodbutcher

Hi, first post here on the forum. Along with many others I've seen here I am in the market for a manual mill. I've had the opportunity to work a few days with a local sawyer and learned a few things from him and his hyd lt40. While the idea of hydraulics sounds nice, the manual mills are closer to my price range. I make my living driving nails, and have been dreaming of sawing my own lumber for years now, so hopefully my dream will soon become reality. With that being said, my first question for you guys is about log handling with limited resources. I have a 30 hp 4wd tractor without a loader, and while I realize alot of people started with less than that, I'm green as grass when it comes to handling timber so I'll welcome any advice i can get. Just trying to get my ducks in a row so i can get to sawing once i bring my mill home. I have a pig pole but the compact tractor don't weigh much, so I'm not sure how it'll hold up to a good size log, and I'll have the logs on a trailer with rails on the sides. Just trying to get some ideas, there's alot of experience here on the forum and you guys seem to have helped out alot of people over the years, and i look forward to being a part of it.   Thanks in advance.
Hudson Oscar 36

WDH

I sawed a whack of lumber using a 45 HP 2-wheel drive tractor.  Skidded the logs to the sawmill using the 3-point lift and a chain, and loaded them by rolling them on the mill with a cant hook. 

You really need a 4-wheel drive tractor with about 50 HP and Front-end loader with log forks if you are serious.  You can make do with what you have, but your productivity will jump with the front-end loader with log forks. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

wvwoodbutcher

thanks for the reply DWH. you're right, a bigger tractor with loader would be nice. i guess for now im limited to skidding the logs to move. In an effort to keep the dirt out of the log, i wonder how a set of rear forks would do just for moving logs at the mill site?
Hudson Oscar 36

WDH

I tried it using hay-type forks.  Probably a bit better for dirt, but much more of a hassle. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Brucer

I started with a 28 HP LT40 manual mill, a 30" Logrite Mill Special (Cant Hook), a 70 CC Jonsereds chainsaw, and a 25 HP 4WD John Deere model 750. The tractor had a set of home-made forks on the front.

Oh yeah, plus a 1980 half-ton GMC 2WD pickup that was only rated for towing 2000 lb.

;D ;D
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

bandmiller2

Welcome Butcher, if your getting the logs from your land near the mill build or buy a log arch. The arch will increase your small tractor hauling ability. If you can find a side hill (should be easy in WV) the logs could easily be rolled onto the mill. You have all you need mate. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Larry

Welcome even.  I can't add to the good advice already shared.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

m wood

welcome wvwb.  Are you taking the logs from your own land mostly?  My 2 cents...if you have the trailer already, figure how to get them on there to transport to the mill.  Winch or a fel for the tractor would be my bet.  You can figure out how to deal with the rails.  I deal with fenders on my 16' trailer and decided to just throw dunnage on the deck so they can clear fenders by rolling or forking off...i have no winch though, but a really really heavy track loader .
good luck and welcome again.
mark
I am Mark
80 acre woodlot lots of hard and soft
modified nissan 4x4/welding rig
4x4 dodge plow truck
cat 931b track loader
Norwood mark IV
4' peavy
6' peavy
stihl 034
"her" wildthing limber saw
ALL the rustic furniture  woodworking stuff
check out FB

thecfarm

wvwoodbutcher,welcome to the forum. You said in your post that the logs will be on a trailer? If this is the case,than the logs could be rolled off onto a log deck than the mill. Notice I said log deck. Just 2 logs that logs can be put on and then rolled onto the mill. less banging on the mill this way.Have the 2 logs just a little bit higher than the mill rail beds. A member on here made some tines for his 3 pt hinge. Kinda need a hyd link for the angle part to really make it work,but I know what you mean about money part and doing something with what you have.
What's all the lumber going to be used for?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

drobertson

Howdy wvwoodbutcher,  I started out in the same boat you are describing. skidding logs up to the mill. Later I did use an old 3 prong hay loader on the 3 point. a pain,  ended up buying an old 580 construction king,  I reckon what I'm trying to say is whatever you have will work,  forks just make things easier.     david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

shinnlinger

A 3pt carryall frame for $100, especially if reinforced/modified  would work for loading onto a deck.  I've actually done it when moving really big logs with my 34 horse tractor  when my FEL couldnt lift them. My gallery shows the carry all forks and a deck I whipped up with some rr track but sawed cants would work fine.   I also like the idea of parbuckling logs onto a trailer and then parellel parking next to the deck and rolling into it with a peavy.  The carry all on the tractor could then cart the boards and slabs away from the other side.   Read the other posts about manual mills and things to think about.    You are asking the right questions by wondering how your going to move logs BEFORE you buy a mill!
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Magicman

Hello wvwoodbutcher, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum. 

Handling logs with what you have is not beyond reason.  Add a couple of Logrite cant hooks and a Log Arch and you will be able to handle and maneuver logs quite nicely.  If an arch is beyond your financial means, then they can be homebuilt if you have access to metal and a welder.

No, I do not work for  Logrite but they build high quality products and also are a Forestry Forum sponsor.  There are many sponsors listed on the left side of the page that can help with your "startup" operation.  There is also a "For Sale" board that occasionally list used sawmills, etc.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

dgdrls

Welcome WBWV.

Perhaps a http://www.farmiwinch.com/JL-351P/ to help with the skidding

once at the mill site, load to a log deck using ramps and the par-buckle technique.


 

As noted by MM make sure you get a Logrite cant-hook or two,
there are life savers.

What mill are you considering?

best,
DGDrls





Rockn H

If you're looking at a manual woodmizer, it should come with ramps and you could use the winch to just parbuckle the logs onto the mill away from home.   For milling at home, you could build a log deck, like other members have shown, out of what ever you've got, creosote timbers, logs, railroad iron.  Then use the mill ramps to connect the deck to the mill when you're ready to load a log.  You can use your three point hitch with tongs to drag the logs to the deck and a three point carry all to roll the logs onto the deck with.  If you're using a trailer with sides, I'm guessing you're going to parbuckle the logs onto the trailer.  I've blocked off the trailer and used my truck to parbuckle logs and I highly recommend buying a $300 winch off the internet instead.  If you build three bridges the same height as the trailer sides, you can just roll the logs back off the sides of the trailer instead of having to drag them, and you're not constantly dropping 2500 lb logs on your deck.   You could even roll them straight onto the log deck if you went that route.   Or you can use a short gin pole with tongs on your three point hitch to lift the end of the logs and drag them off the trailer.   Some have built a loading arch on the back of the trailer to use with a winch that lifts and drags the logs onto the trailer from the rear.  Lots of info here if you do a search for "parbuckling" and "loading arch". 

wvwoodbutcher

Thanks a bunch for the welcome and all the replies. You guys sure helped me out with my question, nice to know I have all this help getting started out. I like the idea of the log deck for staging, and the term parbuckling was new to me as well(told ya I was green). While the FEL is in the future plans, I'll have to improvise for now. cfarm, my lumber will first be used for a mill shed, then a shop, barn, fence, etc. As a carpenter I'll be able to cut out the the big box stores for some of my customers and pass along some of the savings hopefully. dgdrls, as far as what mill I'm looking at I haven't really set my sights on any brand in particular, I had no idea that bandsaw mfg. was such a competitive market. Kind of keeping an eye on the used mills, but may go with a new model. The sawyer I have been helping really stressed the importance of power feed, but while production is not a major factor for me through the learning curve, I would like to have the option of adding them later, when production is a factor, so the lt15 and mp-32 are certainly at the top of the list. Thanks again for all your responses to my question.

wvwb.
Hudson Oscar 36

cutterboy

Hey woodbutcher, welcome. I do all my logging with an old tractor with forks on the back

 

It's better to carry the logs than skid them because it keeps them clean.
I made a log deck with 10"x10" cants with 4x4s on top.

  

 

As some of the guys have said, you can make do with what you have and add tools as you go along.

Good luck.....Cutter
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

Andy White

wvwoodbutcher,
Welcome to the Forum, the place for great advice and methods for anything "sawing". I set my mill up stationary on a concrete slab, and built an arch for loading logs, and turning cants on the mill. Could be pulled by tractor, truck, or atv with no problems. Sure keeps logs clean and easy to load. If your mill is trailer mounted, this may not work due to height of mill bed. As mentioned earlier, a good Logrite is the first "must have"!!!    Andy

  

  

 


 
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

losttheplot

Welcome Woodbutcher, have to agree on the log arch.
Our roads are too narrow to carry logs across forks  :D :D





The par-buckling method works well, with a powered winch, couple of 4x4's for a ramp.

 






I don't put power feed too high on my wish list list, I find pushing the mill down the tracks gives me a rest from the hard work  :D  :D

I am sure you will enjoy whichever mill you end up with.
Watch out for the backstops  ;)

I work as a carpenter also, when I use lumber I have milled I get a price from the local lumber yard and charge my customers the same price for the same quality lumber.
There is too much work involved to be selling it cheap.

LTP.



DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

shinnlinger

Cutterboys's Deck is ideal for better production on the cheap.  It keeps the logs clean (one little stone can ruin your band), it protects the mill by allowing you to set logs on the deck with your tractor vs the mill itself and it allows you to stockpile some logs (do not double stack!) so when you do get to fire up the mill you can keep the band in the wood instead of using an arch to set  every stick. 

My suggestion was right in between the two.  Use the 3pt forks on the tractor you already have to handle slabs and boards and use the draw bar to pull a trailer. Perhaps a narrow woods trailer with bunks to parbuckle your logs onto then roll the logs onto your deck with a peavy.  If you are bringing in logs from "away" you can use a truck and parbuckel onto a trailer and roll onto your deck from that.  A trailer also allows you to haul longer logs out of the woods.

You really do have a significant advantage already owning the 4x4 tractor.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Wellmud

I have a Woodmizer LT35 manual mill with the log deck package (ramps and a manual crank winch) which is basically a parbuckle system like those pictured above. The system works well, if you can get the log in front of the mill, it will definately get it rolled on the deck. I also have a tractor with a FEL, but most compact tractors with a front loader are not going to pick up the big logs anyway.
Woodmizer LT35 manual, Kubota L3130, Farmi 351, Stihl 029 super, 3 Logrite canthooks

samandothers

x2 on Wellmud. LT35 manual with ramps and winch.  40 hp Tractor with Front end loader and grapple will load some but larger logs no go.

Possum Creek

I use a tractor with rear forks to load logs on a wagon and then load them on the skids, it sure beats rolling them around by hand.             PC

 

Sixacresand

 

    
This is the handiest rig on the place, from moving logs, setting them on the bed of the LT10, turning logs to moving stacks lumber.  Of course I rather have a big Green tractor with FEL.  ;).   

And thanks to Rockn H for the tip on the trailer bridges so logs can be rolled off the trailer.  Gravity makes a lot more sense than using a tractor to drag the off.  DUH
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

woodweasel

  Get a pair of thongs, chain up to the pig pole! You will be able to move
a lot of logs. Check at Harbor Freight, fairly cheap! ;D

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