Is 4/4 bdft the same amount in SQ ft?

[strunk57]

I know it sounds crazy, I have tried looking it up but cant get an exact answer.

I do the math and it seems to me that it is the same, say an 1x8x8 has 5.33 bdft, is it the same in sq ft?

I have a customer that wants paneling for his bathroom, he wants it all in 1x8. I am racking my brain trying to figure this out along with everything else going on, I know someone here will know.

[Dave Shepard]

Yes, it is essentially the same thing. In reality, 4/4 is from 1.000" to 1.249" thick, so a 4/4 board could be almost 25% more in volume than a true 1" board.

[Peter Drouin]

Yes, it is essentially the same thing. In reality, 4/4 is from 1.000" to 1.249" thick, so a 4/4 board could be almost 25% more in volume than a true 1" board.

What?  say_what

[redbeard]

Length feet x width inches ÷ 12 = square feet.

[Dave Shepard]

Well, what would you call a 1 1/8" board? Four and a half quarter? :D

Basically, in order to qualify as 5/4, a board must actually be five quarters of an inch, or 1.250". If it isn't 1.250", then it gets bumped down to the next quarter size. So, a 1.249" thick board is only 4/4.

[Peter Drouin]

1.125 =1 1/8

[drobertson]

strunk, all I can add is this, ask and be sure of the end product, then saw it from there. It sounds like he wants and needs 1" boards.  I saw 1-1/16" in these situations.  this does seem heavier than needed, but meets the needs. Many folks are use to uneven board thickness, and go from there in regards to green, rough sawn lumber.   Things change when things are right.  If you can saw to a given thickness, express this and go from there.   david

[strunk57]

Thanks redbeard I've looked at 2 or 3 different methods and something that simple just clicked.

And I didn't know that about 4/4 but as always I'm gaining knowledge Everytime I log in

[Dave Shepard]

ETA: this is in response to Peter's last post.

Right, but when using the quarter scale, everything has to get grouped into a quarter, 1.125"  or 1 1/8" is still just 4/4. If you are simply going by measure, then you call it whatever it is. Using the quarter scale may be more relevant if you are using some sort of grading and tally system. For instance when we had some lumber sorted that we were wholesaling to a kiln, the grader didn't measure the exact width or thickness of the board, it was a sort of averaging situation. The scale stick had different markings and it was tallied as whatever set of marks it landed on or between.

[Peter Drouin]

I'm just saying when a customer wants 10,000 bf cut at 1 1/8 I can't count it as 1" wood. And the only time BF and sq foot are the same is if it's all 1" wood.

[Dave Shepard]

I'm not saying you should count it at 1". That's why you wouldn't use the 4/4 system to get an accurate tally. If you have any other topics you would like me to complicate, I'll be here for another hour and fourteen minutes. Or is that really just an hour? :D

[Peter Drouin]

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[cutterboy]

Strunk, I hope you are not getting confused by all this talk of board thickness. To answer your question.... Yes, a board foot is a square foot one inch thick. So, a board 8' by 8" by one inch thick is 5.33 bf which is 5.33 square feet.   Cutter

[Peter Drouin]

Strunk, I hope you are not getting confused by all this talk of board thickness. To answer your question.... Yes, a board foot is a square foot one inch thick. So, a board 8' by 8" by one inch thick is 5.33 bf which is 5.33 square feet.   Cutter

[mesquite buckeye]

And just to make it more fun a softwood planed 1" board is 3/4" thick and a planed hardwood board is 13/16" thick. Isn't this fun????? ???

;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Peter Drouin]

And just to make it more fun a softwood planed 1" board is 3/4" thick and a planed hardwood board is 13/16" thick. Isn't this fun????? ???

;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[VictorH]

3/4 for softwoods and 13/16 for hardwood -  I did not know this!!  Thanks -  btw WHY?  ;D

[red oaks lumber]

rough lumber b.f. is the same as sq.ft. when you take that 1x8 and make paneling now your sq.ft. will be less than the b.f.
example 1x8 r.sawn is 5.33 b.f.  make 7" coverage paneling you have a 3/8 lenght tounge but, dosent add to the overall width so the sq.ft. is 4.66
a 1000 b.f. of 1x8's made in  paneling will cover 871 sq.ft.
so if you are just suppling him the r.sawn material if he gives you the sq.ft. he wants to cover you can figure out how many 1x8's he needs
1 1/8 thick material still gets scaled at 4/4

[5quarter]

Somewhere, Tom has a brilliant post explaining how, when and why the quarter and inch measurements are used...just can't seem to put my finger on it at the moment. as an aside, I use the quarter scale as a sawing scale only.

Red oaks...good catch. I forgot all about paneling and flooring.

[LeeB]

As mentioned before, ask the customer what he actually needs and saw from there.

[strunk57]

Thanks everybody for the responses, I am gonna figure what he needs to cover his walls, then come back to this thread for more info on scaling 4/4.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

There are traditions within our industry that help us at times and confuse at other times.  For example, softwoods are sold on the basis of their nominal footage (a 2x8 is actually 1.5" x 7.25", but the bf is based on 2x8 and not the actual size), plus if under 1.000" when planed, it is still counted as a full 1". This has been adopted by the Bureau of Weights and Measures in all 50 states and in Canada too.  With softwoods, the bf is reported to two decimal points.  Many times softwoods are sold by the piece count.

For hardwoods, it is more complicated, as the thickness is the last full quarter inch, as mentioned in previous postings.  The length is the actual length to the last full foot...no fractions.  The width is the actual width including fractions.  But, unlike softwoods, hardwoods are given only to the full bf...no fractions.  This measurement system is tied very, very closely to the grading process for lumber, so that is why it is widely used and has not changed. 

What this all means is that for green or air dried hardwood lumber, not planed, a piece that is 6 BF can be as small as 1.00" thick, 5-1/2" wide and 12.0 feet long (5.5 square feet).  The largest 6 BF piece would be 1.24" thick, 6-1/2" wide and 12.9 feet long (6.99 square feet).  (This does not mean that if someone wants you to saw 1-1/16 lumber you will charge the same sawing fee ($/bf) as with 1-1/8", or that for logs with 10" of over length would not factor in to the sawing price, as they are 9% longer, causing more wear and tear and shorter blade life, Etc.

As "unfair" as this system may seem (over 100 years old), it is used today because
1.  It is an integral part of hardwood lumber grading rules
2.  this was adopted by the National weights and Measures many years ago. 
3.  Tally sticks use it.  Note that With hardwoods, many people use a tally stick, marked in BF for measuring BF.   This uses the above procedures also.

If buyer and seller agree, you can certainly modify the rules.

Note that if you had nine pieces that were 6"x12', the thickness multiplier is applied to the sum of these nine and not to each piece...so, nine 5/4x6x12 are (5/4) x 9 (6 x 12 / 12) = (5/4) x 54 = 67 or 68 BF.  Sometimes, the width (inches) times length(feet) / 12 is called the surface measure (SM).  The SM is a critical number when grading.

[Jim_Rogers]

I'm just saying when a customer wants 10,000 bf cut at 1 1/8 I can't count it as 1" wood. And the only time BF and sq foot are the same is if it's all 1" wood.

If someone ordered 10,000 of wood and wanted it 1 1/8" thick I'd charge him for 1 1/8" thick lumber. I would not be giving him 1/8" of an inch every board. That lumber adds up to a lot of money given away.

Do you sell by the log volume? or do you sell by the lumber scale? They can be two totally different amounts due to over run.

I sell by lumber volume.
If my skill or my saw can produce lumber accurately to gain lumber over the log volume estimated scale then I should get paid for that. Not give it away.

When I saw a customer's logs(softwood) I cut to the sizes he wants. 4/4 scale gives me 1 1/16" boards. I let that go as 1" boards.
When I saw a customer's logs(hardwood) I cut to the sizes he wants my hardwood scale gives me 1 1/8" boards as I have been told that this is the industry standard. I charge for 1 1/8" boards. after 9 boards tallied at 1" but cut at 1 1/8" you have given him a whole board. eight 1/8" gains = 1" board the 9th 1/8 cuts it free from the log.

I do this and it works for me. Your system may work for you, but you could be giving wood away.

Jim Rogers

[Magicman]

There are traditions within our industry that help us at times and confuse at other times.  For example, softwoods are sold on the basis of their nominal footage (a 2x8 is actually 1.5" x 7.5"........

Actually a 2X8 is 1.5" X 7.25".

Nominal Vs. Actual:  2 x 4, 1.5" x 3.5". 2 x 6, 1.5" x 5.5". 2 x 8, 1.5" x 7.25". 2 x 10, 1.5" x 9.25". 2 x 12, 1.5" x 11.25".

[red oaks lumber]

jim ,
  why would i sell on log volume?i saw about 30% over scale so ,the little thicker board really isnt a big deal. my self i would be embarrassed to charge some one on 1/8 " :( but, to each his own.
gene,
99% of the people on this forum  don't apply to "the rules" all you did was add alot of confusion to an already confusing topic for alot of people. imho.