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Need Help With Cutting A Beam

Started by DeepWoods, February 20, 2014, 05:13:29 PM

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DeepWoods

I have a new spring project coming up and would like some advise.  I will be adding a 13 x 16 screened porch to our cabin and would like an open ceiling.  My thoughts were to have a 6 x 12 x 16 foot long beam at the ridge.  Would it be better to cut one solid beam, or cut four 2 x 12 x 16's and nail them together?  The other question is can I put either of these up green?  I was thinking if it were a solid beam, I would center the heart, and also cut the 6/12 pitch on the top side.  If I did the four 2 x 12's I would still cut the 6/12 after I nailed them.  One more question, would a solid beam free of heart be better than one centered?  I think I have some red pine large enough to make one free of heart. 

Here is a Sketchup of what I intend to build, any other problems with what I have in mind, feel free to make suggestions.  I'm not a carpenter, so any suggestions are welcome

    
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

Den-Den

Free of Heart Center would have fewer splits when it dried but might warp if cut too close to the pith.  My biggest concern would be lifting this beam (it will be very heavy).
If you cut a single piece beam, it will take years to dry, I would put it up green.  I don't see much benefit to a laminated beam unless you want to dry the wood before installation or lift it one piece at a time.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

thecfarm

That beam would look good up there. You said open ceiling? so it would be seen. If going that size what about 3 inch rafters too? Just for looks. I went with 2x8 across a Women Cave. Really looks good. But no sense in killing yourself either.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Sixacresand

You may not be a carpenter, but it seems you have mastered the use of Sketchup.  Good job.  I would be concerned with cracks and warping as it dries.  Post some photos during the construction. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

bandmiller2

DW, cut the beam a little oversized then go over it with an adz to make it look hand hewn. Its a nice effect and you won't have to worry about drying cracks, its a cabin. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

DeepWoods

Thanks for the quick replies.  Den-Den, I did a quick calculation using the forums toolbox, if I figured correctly it will weigh in the neighborhood of 350 pounds.  Not sure at this point how it would be lifted, but seems at least possible.  Will any cracks that occur be of concern?  Or will they be cosmetic, totally acceptable if so.

Cfarm,  I intended to use 1 x 6 t&g on the ceiling inside as the roof deck will be OSB and don't want to be looking at that.  But if I used the 1 x 6 for the roof deck the open rafter concept could look good.

Sixacresand, master of Sketchup, no way, it took me almost a 40 hour week to build the model in Sketchup.  I really think I could have framed the walls and roof in less time.  I stuck with it as I really didn't have anything else going on, and I figured I would have a much better concept of how I was going to do the actual construction if I worked it out in my head and on Sketchup first. 

bandmiller, is there another tool other than an adz that will give the same results?  Don't have one in my arsenal of tools, and the budget is going to be tight.  No room for new toys, but I like the idea.
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

hunz

As far as the solid beam vs (3) 2"x12'x16's depends upon if it will be visible inside the house. Aesthetically, I would go for the solid beam hands down. If you are looking for the easiest cheapest way to get a ridge beam up there, the 3 individual pieces are without a doubt going to save your back and wallet. I am building myself a dovetail timber frame, and what your dilemma is, will be mine exactly when I start setting my house. My plans call for 3- 6"X12"x16' ridge beams, that rest on top of 6x6's on the second story to span the length of my house. I have yet to decide on a piece of equipment to set them....a lull......boom truck.....who knows :D
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

redbeard

If the beam is going to be a feature in your project, you could notch the truss timbers on top of beam and still have your ridge and fill between with blocking it would make the beam appear even bigger. Also it would give you place to run some wire for lights or ceiling fan. Timberline.com has carving wheels for 4" grinders the can give a beam a nice hewed look.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

bandmiller2

DW, If your handy mayby pick up a cheap grub hoe at a flea market or yard sale shape and sharpen the flat side. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

DeepWoods

I have an old pick axe, that I could get a sharp edge on, but I don't have a way to make it curved.  I will start asking around, maybe I can come across one, as the hand hewn finish would look good.

Now for another question,  If I use 6x6 posts, how does the 6x12 beam get connected together?  Doesn't seem right to just toenail them  together.   Redbeard, I'm not sure I follow your comments, but I do want a ceiling fan on the beam, can you elaborate, or provide a sketch so I can understand what it is your telling me?
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

redbeard

The blocking between rests on top of beam on each side with the 6/12 angle. 

 
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

DeepWoods

Thanks for the drawing, now all I have to do is think it through to see if it is something that works for my application.
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

barbender

Les, I used some large Red Pine beams in the roof of our house, I can't get too specific right now, I should be sleeping. I have a shed outside with a large ridge beam too, it's still all open underneath so a guy can see how the rafters are connected etc. I'd say you're better off with a centered heart beam, they will check but its aesthetic. I have an adze and I did one of our beams with an adzed finish, after that I decided I prefered the band sawn finish ;D I can show you how to get the bugger up too, I guess what I'm saying is you will have to come down to my place one of days ;)
Too many irons in the fire

backwoods sawyer

On the timber frame homes that I have milled out the specs were for anything under 10" in width to be free of hart center. 
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Remle

You may have valid reasons for your design choice and my observations are not intended to try to change your plan in any way, they are merely suggestions. Is their a special reason why the ridge is not in the center of the room ? Generally speaking symmetrically looking faces of a building are more pleasing to the eye. The 3D you show distorts the fact that the ridge is not in the center. Looking up from within the room you have a long low rafter on a short wall on one side and a short high rafter on a high wall on the other, again this puts things out of relationship as a ceiling fan hanging from the ridge will be off center in the room. As you show the framing the windows are not evenly spaced on the end wall, again not pleasing to the eye. My final question is why 13' a 12' or 14' width would make better use of building materials. I would evenly space the end wall windows. Double up the jack studs on the center window and center the ridge over the center window and make the walls the same height. I would also consider putting collar ties every 4' to keep the walls from splaying out.

DeepWoods

I wondered how long it would take for someone to mention that the beam is not centered.  I have a unique situation in that our original cabin was built in 1953 when there were no restrictions on how far a structure had to be from the high water mark on the lake.  We are grandfathers in, but as the front of the cabin is 47 feet from the water, we are restricted to a 50 foot minimum.  I spoke to our County Enviromental Services personnel a year ago, and in no uncertain terms they said any addition had to meet the 50 foot minimum distance.  Not one inch closer! And they will come to measure.  That is why the front of the addition is offset 3 feet from the front of the cabin.

We are also restricted on the total square footage to twice the original footprint.  We had already added a bathroom addition two years ago, so the size and location of the screened porch was limited by the County.  Believe me, I would have loved to have just added on to the length of the original building.  As previously stated, I am not a carpenter and it would have been a lot easier for me.  I am seeking the advice of a professional contractor for my final plans before any construction begins.  I am trying to make the best lemonade possible with the conditions given.  Hope this explains my design decisions. 
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

drobertson

Without running numbers, which is a bad thing most of the time, I would follow the advice from the previous posts, saw it full width, and profile it as desired for appeal.  The span and slope should maintain snow load requirements and give you a spectacular room.   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

barbender

Tempe, I would disagree about using collar ties. With a correctly sized structural ridge they are unnecessary, the walls will only splay if the ridge sags.
Too many irons in the fire

Brucer

... unless he attaches the rafters as shown in the original sketchup drawing. If the rafters are able to shift downward (even a little) over time, they will push the walls out. That's why rafters usually have a birds-mouth cut into them, as shown on Redbeard's sketch.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Don_Papenburg

The new building codes want metal ridge board ties of some sort . That keeps the roof from lifting or rafters from drooping do to wind and or snow loads..
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Remle

DeepWoods
Since I was the one to point out the off center ridge beam in the room, let me apologize. Yes , we find govt. intervention makes us change what would be a straight forward approach to meet some seemingly arbitrary rule. So we take to finding the best solution possible. From your response I presume that you want to keep the original ridge line and slope of the roof from the existing structure and extend it over the new porch. Thus the offset ridge, am I correct ?  Other structural things to look out for are tying back into the existing roof and the long overhang on the left side of the porch needs bracing of some sort, the weight of the roof alone will cause it to sag over time. You may already have plans to support it that are not shown and if you decide to use T&G pine on the top of the rafters, remember to account for that so the roof build up surfaces match up to the existing roof. The ridge beam as others have said needs to be looked at structurally. I still may be way off base so please take my comments/ suggestions in a positive light, I truly mean no disrespect to you or others reading this forum.  Remle


DeepWoods

Remle, first, no apologies nesseccary.  I took your comments as someone trying to help.  And that is what I was asking for.  Also, my reply was not intended to be condescending towards you, so if that is how it came across to you, I apologize.  You are correct with your other observations with regards to the roof line.  Yes, I am concerned with the amount of overhang on the high wall side.  How much overhang, without additional support is exceptable with 2x4 rafters?  I wanted to go 24 inches to help keep rain out of the porch.  I had already realized the problem with the roof deck materials. The existing roof is 3/4 shiplap, and with the planned 7/16 OSB, I will have to plan accordingly.  A lot of the details are missing from my Sketchup drawing, and even more left out in my comments, so I can see how one would not necessarily know what I had in mind. 

I have been working further on my Sketchup, and as soon as I can upload the pictures, I will post them for review.  To all those that have had comments and suggestions, Thank You. 
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

mesquite buckeye

Running a few ties to connect the opposite rafters will really up the strength of the whole roof. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

DeepWoods

So here are my latest ideas for review.  I took the idea from a neighbor on the lake that has a similar beam detail as shown. They will be 6x6 to match the main beam.   I will also use the Simpson Tie on the rafter to main beam connection.  The cross beams will be connected with the black tees as shown.  I can make them from some 4 inch wide flat stock, and weld the tees together.  Then lag them into the beams

 



 

Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

mesquite buckeye

I like it. Way stronger.

We got our tie plates cut out from one sheet of 1/4" plate. Worked really well and sharp when bolted up. We used 3/4" square head black bolts.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

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