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timber cutter

Started by kuppy, February 14, 2014, 02:14:09 PM

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kuppy

y is it so hard for a 20 year timber cutter to find work im in ohio now and cant land a job because all the goats are doing the logging and sawing in the woods amish don't hire white people I guess its a shame that im not able to find work cutting timber in ohio
jimmy

BradMarks

Not sure what you mean by goats doing the logging. And your statement about Amish shows a lack of diversity. I'm not a PC guy per say, but come on.

kuppy

well brad then u haven't been around the amish much and have no idea what I mean.if u were back east instead of out west then u would understand the diversity in the statement.
jimmy

Jeff

Not sure if this topic is going to be able to survive. kuppy, as a heads up, the Forestry Forum is probably a much kinder and gentler forum than you may be used to. I might add that I have made several Amish friends over my life time.  I can tell you, if I was the person in a position to hire an applicant, they would lose major points with me by negatively pointing at others rather than positively pointing too their self.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Ezekiel 22:30

kuppy

this is going the wrong way here guys ive worked for the amish and also have friends I mean they have the timber here in ohio and its hard for a skidder company to get the work im not saying the amish are bad im just saying they have the timber market and its hard to get the timber here because of the money difference.
jimmy

M_S_S

I think by goats he is referring to the Amish's beards. I, like Brad, am on the left coast. I don't know any Amish, do know a lot of Meninites. I have heard the Amish are very hard workers, I know the Meninites are. I would not hire a man that blames his misfortunes on another man. If you can't find a cutting job in Ohio, maybe you should try Indiana, Illinois or one of those other states. Ed
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kuppy

see it is the beard and im really not likeing the way this is going I didn't mean no punt to the amish im just saying.
jimmy

donny hochstetler

I was born n raised amish left the amish religion 20 yrs ago I dont agree with alot of there beliefs thats why I left but I prob have more amish freinds than other they are 4 the most part good people but there are crooks mixed in there like any other Ive been in the timberbuisness all my life Im actually thinking of moving out of the area just to get away from the competition but you also have to consider the markets you can get a lot more for your logs in my area than other places my theory is move out about 60 miles and haul your logs to the markets  now for a word of advice if you think you will get rich of off these guys  it prob wont happen you have to find a way to get the ball in your hands and play offense as much as possable

kuppy

ty Donny  that's my point I was not downing the amish all about the money if I may say that.
jimmy

treechopper40

I sell all my red white and scotch pine,spruce,cedar,tamarack and hemlock logs to the amish they treat me real well and ive made some great realationships with the amish sawmill owners around my area
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Jeff

Lets just get off on a different foot by stopping the derogatory remarks while there is still time. Calling an amishman a goat is not something he would appreciate, so neither does the Forestry Forum. it's  members or I. So, here is the chance to start over. No apologies, no regrets, just start over. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

plasticweld

I work almost exclusively with the Amish, they are not going to hire the English to work for them, they will contract certain things out. I do haul for them on occasion but mostly have them saw for me. I work with three mills that are Amish and one that is Mennonite. Make sure you never confuse the two, they are drastically different. As one poster said they are no different than working with anyone else. There are those that you can trust and those that you can not. I have been established with them for quite sometime now and  my business and theirs work side by side. My business  has been successful because of this relationship and I am sure it is mutual.

The one place you will not compete with them is when it comes to Workmans Comp. Because they are self and insured and recognized by the state as such they do not have to pay the  total wages we would have to pay. They are also willing to work for less per day or hour than the English   

Nemologger

If you were in Missouri you could find a timber cutting job real easy, I know a lot of guys looking for good cutters.
Clean and Sober

Southside

I have both worked for and had Amish work for me for over 10 years now.  I have a very good friend who is Amish, he has had both my wife and I over for dinner many times, allows me to stay at his residence when I needed to, even allowed me to stable livestock in his barn when traveling through his place.  People are people where ever you go, however one thing I can say is I trust David 100% to be true to his word, if a particular business arrangement does not work for either of us all we have to do is say so and see if we can make the money work out, if not then it's business and nothing more.  Honestly I do not know any family who work as hard as his does, right down to the kids.  The price of farmland goes up when they settle in an area as well.  There is a reason they are successful in their endeavors, many people could learn from them. 
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saxon0364

Ive had quite a few Amish guys work for me and Ive worked for them many times.   And some of those guys were from Ohio.  I just finished cutting a piece for an Amish mill owner.   Ive cut for Amish guys that own skidders.  They are just making a living same as the rest of us.   I consider a few very goods friends.    The mill owner I work for now is not Amish.   But half the guys that work for him are.   And his wifes very best friend is Amish.     They are just people like everybody else. Some good, some not so good.  Just like everybody else.     As far as timber cutting jobs go, well, here in Pa. they cant find enough good cutters.   But  bad ones with poor reputations are a dime a dozen.
Nothing wrong with quiet.

thenorthman

I'm just going to ignore the whole them dudes vs. these dudes thing... its silly


Could be that you want more money then you yourself are currently worth, not saying you're putting your self on a pedestal, or trying to be mean.  Just saying that times are tough for everyone in logging, and if enough people are willing to take less money to do the same job who's going to get hired?  Its simple economics.  So your choice is to either work for less, or move to where the pay is what you are used to making.

Its like this whole minimum wage b$$#$ fest going on now, if you can't make enough to survive on what you are currently getting, its up to you to make the change, don't call the gubamint and whine about needing a raise, go find a better job, if you can't find one, make one, they used to call that the american way.

I'm going to end that now before it becomes very political...
well that didn't work

kuppy

look when I started this I should have worded it different like I said my father god bless his heart hade the busness for 50 years and im from pa and I have a lot of amish friends that I care about deeply.getting back to what I said is I can not compeat with amish using horses compaired to skidder.i have a much bigger overhead and I can not pay the prices they are paying for the timber that's all im saying.
jimmy

Tree Killer

I feel that I can relate to this topic a little, I was called amish the other day  I wasnt offended to much. My beard is getting a lil long, it was a honest mistake. Lol  . Ive hauled many loads to amish mills over the years,  most of them were fair . Some not.Most amish crews around here work hard but it seem like the crash and smash the residual trees. And dont know when to stay home when its too wet to skid. Im sure that wood be true with American , English, Candian (?)  Crews  but they are not the topic. I dont see the point to ride kuppy like horse for having a opinion that you may not agree with.  In his area the amish buy up alot
of timber the can pay more because it cost them less to get it out. Kuppy should buy a van and drive these amish around to their logging jobs . I dont think he posted on here to stir up some bravo sierra,  just to give his opinion people on here sure jump on and ride when  somebody gets offended. Im surprised the ACLU  hasnt been linked yet.YUK !  What a joke .

Maine372

welcome kuppy,

judging by your icon it seems you have a large skidder and a landing loader. I wouldn't thing you and horse loggers would be bidding on the same timber.

have you considered chasing larger land tracts that horses cannot tackle in a timely manner? have you considered subbing out work to horse loggers to lower your cost?

picture this: let the guys who are working for less money cut and cold deck the wood to main skid trail. then you drag it to the landing with the skidder and load it. less saw work and pulling cable for you, plenty of work for them. you could probly pay them a little less than they are making now because they wont have to pull the wood so far, and you make more because you are working less, plus some pay for all the organizing efforts.

I know its frustrating when you feel like you can't see your way out. just think outside the box.

good luck!

SquareG

I do alot of business with amish and menn sawmills.  Prejudiced derogatory comments are uncalled for.  Free market in america, and it sounds like kuppy's operating costs are too high, relatively speaking.  However, if they're not paying inc tax, road tax, or sales tax there's a problem, unfair playing field.

thenorthman

If it becomes a tax and LI issue, I suggest you take it up with your locale senetor, barring that the court system, and I'm not one to get the courts involved.

Otherwise Sounds like you have competition that have found a way to make a decent living for less.  So your options are legal, or change your operation to be competetive, or move out of range of the horse loggers.
well that didn't work

kuppy

wow im guessing I started off on the wrong foot on this site.my statement went from complaining about a 20 year timber feller not able to find work in ohio.to packing up my outfit and moveing to taking it up with my senator what has America become.a man makes a statement.and starts a fight about stuff he was not even talking about got to love how things just spiral out of control.
jimmy

SliverPicker

Go to work for yourself.  Problem solved.
Yooper by trade.

beenthere

kuppy
Gives you a good idea about what power there is in the words you use.

One must be careful to avoid giving impressions that were not really meant to be.

Re-read what you initially wrote in the OP and see if you could have written it in such a way to have avoided the direction this thread moved, and given you an answer or two that you were really looking for from the OP post.
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Shotgun

Sounds like it wasn't what you said, but the way you said it.  Guess that might suggest that one might want to become somewhat familiar with a new forum, before one throws out a bombastic statement.    ;)  And with similar follow-ups.
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