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Detroit 3-53 block heater.

Started by Dave Shepard, February 11, 2014, 05:40:42 PM

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Dave Shepard

Installed a tank type heater on the TJ this afternoon. 850 watts. Fortunately there used to be a little heater unit just ahead of the steering valve bank, so the hoses were already there. If the hose was warm, and wasn't buried between the frame and engine, it would have taken about 2 1/2 minutes to install, but instead, it took almost a half an hour. Cold rubber and the famous TJ lack of clearance around the frame is a pain. Not as bad as a starter-ectomy, but still not fun. :D

I haven't been able to start this engine less than about 35 degrees. I talked to a Detroit mechanic yesterday and he is pretty sure the top rings have been smoked due to excess ether abuse. He recommended a tank type heater, which we had on hand. The rest of my fuel system is in good shape and fuel and filters are good.

The TJ is too far away from power to plug in, so I got out an old Generac 4000 watt generator we had in the shed. It hasn't run in many years. I put a couple of gallons of gas in it, checked the oil, choked it and gave it a pull to see whether or not it was seized. It started so fast I wasn't even prepared to take the choke off and it stalled. Had to pull it again to start it. :D Who'd have thought it would sit for 8 years and just take off like that? Gas line is hard as a rock and is a little wet, so I'll get a couple of feet in the morning. It's been running half an hour now, about time to see if the screamer wants to fire now. ;D

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

thecfarm

I got my fingers crossed.
I have to run an extension cord for the big tractor. I plug it in for about an hour or two. Started up kinda hard yesterday. I checked the cords,there are 3-100 footers. The first one I did not tie in a knot,it had came unplugged. Started much better this morning,like the 4th of July.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Dave Shepard

No go tonight. Apparently the cord I was using did battle with some piece of machinery, and lost. ::) Cut through one of the wires. >:(
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DDDfarmer

1200 watt little genset plugged into the block heater plus blowing the exhaust right onto block will warm mine up nice in 3/4 hour.  Not quite like the summertime but easy enough for -20°C outside.



 
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Husky 562xp 576xp chainsaws

Ed_K

Do you have a pic of your tank?Is it something you made yourself?
Ed K

Dave Shepard

No, it's just a garden variety external heater from a farm parts store. The brand is a "Kat's Heater" tank type heater. I found a link to one at Amazon. Same thing I installed. Here. I don't know if 850 is enough but that's what we had here. I think I'd rather have as big a one as I could get to speed up the process.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Ed_K

 Thanks Dave, I'm going to see if TSC has them.
Ed K

Dave Shepard

Just make sure you purge the air out of the heater. Apparently I didn't, and now have another brand new heater to install this afternoon. ::)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Reddog


Dave Shepard

$73 for a 1500 watt and a half an hour to install. Better than yesterday. I don't like the 180° loop from the top of the heater into the return of the water pump, but it's the only way to install it. I got it running without the heater by using the battery charger and a very quick sniff of ether, so that I can warm up the engine and purge the air, only I just ran it out of fuel. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dave Shepard

Put a few gallons in and it fired right up and smoothed out. Fortunately I shut it down quick when I heard it stumbling. Ran it around in the field out back and then pushed some snow banks around. Got it up to 175 on the gauge. Hose coming out of top of heater was hot, so I'm hoping that means there was anti-freeze circulating through it. ::) :D

This is the hose I'm worried about. If there is no air in there, I don't think it's a problem, and I think it's purged now that I've gotten it up to operating temp.


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beenthere

Might get that to work if there is good return into the bottom of the heater. I have my doubts.

Hard to get natural gravity flow of hot water to go up and over that "elbow" at the top.
I'd look for another place above the heater to hook into so the hot water created by the heater goes only up to start and keep the circulation.
Just seems you will always have an air bubble at the top of that curved hose.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

loggah

When you had that line off before you hooked up the heater you should have put in a elbow or street ell in and that would have taken that big loop out of the hose, that is where the air bubble will get trapped. JMO. Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

poor farmer/logger

The heater will work allot better if you can keep the hot line going straight. Heat doesn't like to go downhill. You realliy need a constant rise for it to work properly.

On our 353 I have a line going to the top of the head at the back. Line comes out just above and to the front of the starter on our 664.

We use a propane heater with quick couplers now. 15 to 20 minutes depending on temp and it's almost operating temp. I just put a circulating pump in it so hopefully it works even better now. Was around a half a hour at -20C.

Dave Shepard

I didn't have a fitting to take that loop out, I looked all over the shed for one. I do want to put one in. The heater has to go in the return line because there is a check valve in it. The coolant won't flow if I put it anywhere else in this particular line. It was working the way it is, but my concern is that it isn't circulating through the head or block. The coolant goes from the water pump to the thermostat housing, and then out the other side of the housing and back to the cab, then to the return line of the block heater. I'd like to change the routing, but I don't know exactly where to route it. In 15 minute the temp gauge got up to 120, but the sensor is in the thermostat housing, so I don't think it was doing much for the block/head.
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Stephen Alford

   Hey Dave, just curious as to why you went with the tank heater and not the engine block heater. Faster you think?  The engine block heater comes in 750 and 1000.  I went with the 750 and it works good in 30 minutes. The element for the 1000 has to be bent.  David L reads instructions ( whats with that  ??? ) was able to install, no problem. What I wanted to mention was I tried one of those tank heaters in the tractor and it seemed to work fine. Left it plugged in one night and in the morning the wire by the element was melted and the heater hose was melted and antifreeze was leaking out. It appeared the antifreeze may have put out what looked like burnt rubber. The company sent it away and gave the money back. So I went with the engine element in the 353. I like the name of your town.  ;D

  
logon

David-L

Dave , i have the tank type like yours on a john Deere 2155 tractor, lines going in and out are straight and I positioned it low as possible and have never had a problem with it. The style Stephen and I have seems to work ok to. Yesterday a.m. was -6 and after 35 minutes heating she fired up with no either. Xtra jump pack on the batteries though. Air in these systems as you know can be a pain in the butt.
Is Alford near Becket, mass.

                                             David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Dave Shepard

I didn't know there was in internal type available for a Detroit. I am going to move the block heater as soon as I can figure out where to go into the engine at the back. I looked around behind the starter, but saw nowhere to put a fitting. I am South and West of Becket, about 40 minutes.

Can I plug the hose going into the water pump? That would be the same as shutting the heat switch off on a truck, wouldn't it? I'd just as soon not have those hoses running all over now that the cab heater has been removed, and it would not only simply relocating the block heater, but would make it more effective.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dave Shepard

I don't see anywhere that would accept that internal style with the two bolt flange. I don't see a plug anywhere near the starter, either.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Maine logger88

I put a 1000w on my 353  I didn't have to bend it but its probably a different brand. I didn't read the directions when I did mine so I didn't know you need to use gasket cement as well as the gaskets so it leaked and I had to do it twice typical for me haha. The coldest I used it was -18 put my 1700w gen on it for 45 min and it fired right up like it was summer of course working that day sure didn't feel like summer
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

bushmechanic

The block heater is the best route because the heated coolant is right where you need it around the cylinder liner and head. The fitting you are looking for is not there to be seen. In the back of the cylinder head there is a block-off plate, sort of oval with two 3/8 bolts holding it on. You need to remove it and drill it and tap it to put a nipple in it. Also you can plug off that fitting in the water pump,most 353's just have a plug in there anyway.   

Dave Shepard

Thanks. In the back of the head facing the operator? I might have to pull the back of the engine compartment off, I tried looking down there, but it's pretty tight. I can see the two round covers on the back, but that was about it. I'll be pushing a foot and a half of snow tomorrow, so I might not get to it until the weekend.
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David-L

my block heater is at the front right hand side of the motor behind the secondary fuel filter. my filters are cartridge type and the heater just fit. And yes the 1000watt element needs to be bent. And i would agree with  bushmechanic for short 1/2 to 1 hr heats, the head area up top is the most likely place to try and get warm. I think there is a post with the part # for the heater i purchased for around $60.00. i also heat the primary and secondary fuel filters for a bit with a 1500 watt tile gun heater as the cans are metal and warmer fuel is going to detonate better in these cold temps. my machine has started every morning in these cold temps with about 1hr of prep. my heater looks just like MR. Alfords.

                                              David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Dave Shepard

I saw the pic of your heater, but I don't see that cover on my engine. There is a big bracket for the oil filter below that location, so even if it is there, I couldn't use it. I've got to stick with the tank type heater as I already have it.
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beenthere

Here is a video for a tank heater, that includes the basics for hose placement and voiding loops that fight the gravity flow of rising warm water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxukiZsUUbM
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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