iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Sharpening WM Blades to 8 Degrees?

Started by YellowHammer, February 10, 2014, 11:13:04 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

YellowHammer

I recently purchased a Cats Claw Sharpener and it's set up for 10° Woodmizer blades.  The problem is that I prefer 9° and 7° angle, which are standard on WM blades. The sharpener also has a setting for 8°.  Cooks says I can add another setting hole to get a 9° angle, but I started wondering if others who use this sharpener with WM blades just start using either the 10° or 8° angles.  I'm wondering if I shouldn't just sharpen my 9's to 8's?  What do you think?
Thanks,
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

LeeB

'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Chuck White

I normally use 10°, but I had some Spruce to do last Fall, so I adjusted my Cat Claw sharpener and changed a few 10's to 8.  No problem!

They cut pretty good, in fact I was impressed with the difference.

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

slider

I have been sharpening on 8's for a while ,can't tell much difference .
al glenn

bandmiller2

Honestly Hammer I don't think you'll notice a change of a degree or two. As with most sharpeners you must have an accurate machinests protractor to check the machines setting. The cats claw has a pivoting head and drilled holes for various angles, anything in between can be had by a shim under the shoulder bolt. When you check the angle it helps to have a white sheet of paper behind and leave a small gap between the protractor and the tooth face. Set and sharp is what really matters.  Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

NMFP

Just sharpen tham all to 8 degrees and be done with it.  What hp is your mill?  Most likely it will cut better with 8 degree vs. 10 degree.

For some reason, most mill manufacturers tend to want to push 10 degree but 7 or 8 degree for just about all of my customers is the best.

bandmiller2

It is seldom mentioned but as the grinding wheel on a drag type sharpener wears you get slightly less hook angle, for the most part its a good thing. If you keep dressing the wheel to hold the angle your going to waste a lot of wheel. I dress the ceramic wheel when new then seldom touch it, they seem to last forever. The only way to know on a drag machine is to use a good protractor, you may be surprised that your getting less hook than you think, and liking it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

fat olde elf

Really glad Frank C. got on this. I agree 100% with his comments.  I have a 16 hp Kohler engine on my Cooks MP32 mill. I don't go less than 8 degrees on my bands. I don't encounter frozen logs and have no real problems with most hardwoods. If I were a production sawyer and had more power I would consider lesser degree settings. Good topic about a great piece of equipment. Paid for my Cat's Claw very quickly, I do sharpen for others...........Say your prayers
Cook's MP-32 saw, MF-35, Several Husky Saws, Too Many Woodworking Tools, 4 PU's, Kind Wife.

YellowHammer

I appreciate all the help, and that's what I was hoping you folks would say.  I couldn't see how there would be much difference in one degree.  I have the Yanmar Diesel so I've got decent power and have run 10 degree to 4 degree blades without issues.

This is definitely a new skill I need to develop so I can use all the advice I can get.  Here are the new sharpener and setter in the sharpening room, previously known as the "garage" ;D

After reading all the replies, I bought a machinist protractor today, and tried to get the hang of both the setter and the sharpener.

I've read as much of the past Forum posts I could find on using this sharpener and setter and watched some utube videos, but have no first hand, eyes on experience with sharpening and setting, other than me working with it this week.

I appreciate any tips you can give me.
YH



 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

leroy in kansas

I think you'll find that machine is truly amazing. Did you go to the factory to pick it up? I got a lesson, short and simple when I picked up mine and that alone was worth the trip. It's pretty easy to operate and adjust. If you have any specific questions I'll be glad to go over it with you.

backwoods sawyer

A few well placed 20" boards with braces back to the wall will help with sorting and storing saws ;) Dull-set-sharp-oiled
Always keep all but the last saw pointed towards the wall for safety. :)
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Peter Drouin

YH why did you not get a Wood Mizer sharpener and setter ? You have their mill and blades.  ???
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

bandmiller2

Hammer, you have a nice well lit setup there, mine is in a dank old cellar but at least its warm. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Chuck White

Quote from: YellowHammer on February 11, 2014, 09:25:48 PM
I appreciate all the help, and that's what I was hoping you folks would say.  I couldn't see how there would be much difference in one degree.  I have the Yanmar Diesel so I've got decent power and have run 10 degree to 4 degree blades without issues.

This is definitely a new skill I need to develop so I can use all the advice I can get.  Here are the new sharpener and setter in the sharpening room, previously known as the "garage" ;D

After reading all the replies, I bought a machinist protractor today, and tried to get the hang of both the setter and the sharpener.

I've read as much of the past Forum posts I could find on using this sharpener and setter and watched some utube videos, but have no first hand, eyes on experience with sharpening and setting, other than me working with it this week.

I appreciate any tips you can give me.
YH



 

YH;  I see you have your setter and sharpener on wheel carts, which will be very handy!

I don't know about the setter you have, but I know that the sharpener is very heavy (about 150 pounds), so just be careful it doesn't tip over when you are moving it!

Be careful and congrats on the new equipment!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Sixacresand

If you send 10 degree bands to Woodmizer Resharp Service, Can a different angle (9,8 or 7) be specified for the resharps?
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Sixacresand on February 12, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
If you send 10 degree bands to Woodmizer Resharp Service, Can a different angle (9,8 or 7) be specified for the resharps?
They probably wouldn't do it.....but I'm just guessing.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

YellowHammer

Chuck,
You are right, they are heavy beasts.  I chopped the metal legs and lowered both carts six inches which should make them more stable.

Peter,
The WM equipment is a Cadillac, no doubt, but I liked the flexibility of the Cooks.  I also got a great deal on the Cooks, so saved significant $$.  One of the deciding factors was video showing CustomSawyer running both at the same time so I could see them running back to back.

Quote from: customsawyer on October 06, 2013, 05:31:53 PM
I run both the WM pro series CBN sharpener and the Cooks Sharpener. There are things that I like and dislike about both. There is a learning curve on both machines. To this day if I had to have just one sharpener I don't know which one I would pick.
Here is a short video of the two sharpeners side by side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qJOL0xb6VsY

I spent a lot of time working with both the last couple days.  The first band I sharpened was a mess, but I was able to fix most of my issues and ran it on the mill today and it did OK.  I also ran another band that I set and sharpened and it did a lot better, still not as good as I think I can get, but it sure cut well.  Here's a picture of some walnut I sawed with it today, the surface is generally pretty smooth 

 

Backwoods, good tip.  I need to put some band hangers in the garage.

For you folks who use the dual tooth setter, how do you "zero" out the dial indicators on every blade's neutral tooth without unsetting or messing up the adjacent teeth in the setting clamps? Do you back the setting blocks out every blade?

YH

 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

YellowHammer

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on February 12, 2014, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Sixacresand on February 12, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
If you send 10 degree bands to Woodmizer Resharp Service, Can a different angle (9,8 or 7) be specified for the resharps?
They probably wouldn't do it.....but I'm just guessing.

I've asked, they won't.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

leroy in kansas

Quote from: YellowHammer on February 12, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
Chuck,
You are right, they are heavy beasts.  I chopped the metal legs and lowered both carts six inches which should make them more stable.

Peter,
The WM equipment is a Cadillac, no doubt, but I liked the flexibility of the Cooks.  I also got a great deal on the Cooks, so saved significant $$.  One of the deciding factors was video showing CustomSawyer running both at the same time so I could see them running back to back.

Quote from: customsawyer on October 06, 2013, 05:31:53 PM
I run both the WM pro series CBN sharpener and the Cooks Sharpener. There are things that I like and dislike about both. There is a learning curve on both machines. To this day if I had to have just one sharpener I don't know which one I would pick.
Here is a short video of the two sharpeners side by side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qJOL0xb6VsY

I spent a lot of time working with both the last couple days.  The first band I sharpened was a mess, but I was able to fix most of my issues and ran it on the mill today and it did OK.  I also ran another band that I set and sharpened and it did a lot better, still not as good as I think I can get, but it sure cut well.  Here's a picture of some walnut I sawed with it today, the surface is generally pretty smooth 

 

For you folks who use the dual tooth setter, how do you "zero" out the dial indicators on every blade's neutral tooth without unsetting or messing up the adjacent teeth in the setting clamps? Do you back the setting blocks out every blade?

YH



YH, you should have got a piece of steel,  which is used to "0" the dials. After it's set all ya should have to do is check it from time to time to make sure the dials still come back to zero.

YellowHammer

I found it and have started using It today.,  Seems to work pretty well.   8)
Thanks, YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

customsawyer

First things first. Happy Birthday YH. I don't use the piece of steel that they sent with the setter I use a blade. I only check my zero about every 20 blades or so. The main reason I do this is because I set after I sharpen and the sharpening will leave a small burr on the inside of the blade.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

NMFP

One trick to the cooks dual tooth setter is get it set up evenly side to side and then just adjust the bolts facing you as you stand in front of it.  That way, you aren't always adjusting both sides of the setter. 

One disadvantage of the cooks though is that as its set up as an up and down set machine, there are a lot of moving parts.  Over time, you will need to replace wear bolts and cams on the set shaft.  You don't want to go with grade 5 or 8 bolts though because if you do, you will not wear the bolts but the  rollers themselves.  At that point, its a simple repair as long as you do some disassembly.

I have seen the cooks machines modified to move the setting anvils and dial indicators together using the same cam and bolt instead of 2, that way when you wear the set bolt, you see the set decrease proportionally with the teeth.

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: NMFP on February 14, 2014, 05:55:12 AM
One disadvantage of the cooks though is that as its set up as an up and down set machine, there are a lot of moving parts.  Over time, you will need to replace wear bolts and cams on the set shaft.  You don't want to go with grade 5 or 8 bolts though because if you do, you will not wear the bolts but the  rollers themselves.  At that point, its a simple repair as long as you do some disassembly.
I had problems with the little roll bearing braking, Made some solid rollers as replacments solved that issue.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

NMFP

Yes, good thoughts and ideas but lacking some practical machining and simplicity.  Some refinement is all that's needed.

Thank You Sponsors!