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Learning Curve on a Mini-excavator

Started by KBforester, February 06, 2014, 12:40:01 PM

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KBforester

I was thinking about options to improve access to my woodlot, and wanted to weigh my options for excavation services VS renting a mini-excavator.

Suppose you found someone to do work in a full size excavator for $100/hour, with an estimate of $3000 total.
Compare than to a week's rental on a mini-excavator for $700.

The work I need done could be done by a mini excavator without a struggle... it would just take a lot longer, even with an experience operator.  Having 10 minutes total experience using a full size excavator years ago, a would basically be learning the controls from scratch. I know what I want the machine to do... but I have a feeling it will be awhile till I can get the machine to do it. Should I even consider renting with the steep learning curve I'm up against?
Trees are good.

r.man

I suppose the questions to answer first are can you afford the time and will the little one be able to do in a week what the big one can do in 30 hrs. For 3000 dollars I would be seriously considering buying an older small bulldozer if I thought it could do it.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

red oaks lumber

we've used the mini's, there ok for small jobs. if a full size ex will need 30 hrs how do you think a mini will get it done? does the 700 bucks cover unlimited hours? who pays for the fuel? what is your time worth? if your just digging in the wide open you can learn fairly fast but, if your working in tight or careful areas it might not pay.
my decision would call the big hoe, its more money but, thats not an area of expertise.
good luck
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KBforester

Quote from: r.man on February 06, 2014, 12:50:15 PM
I suppose the questions to answer first are can you afford the time and will the little one be able to do in a week what the big one can do in 30 hrs. For 3000 dollars I would be seriously considering buying an older small bulldozer if I thought it could do it.

you're not supposed to give me more options, you're supposed to take them away.  :D

Quote from: red oaks lumber on February 06, 2014, 12:51:54 PM
we've used the mini's, there ok for small jobs. if a full size ex will need 30 hrs how do you think a mini will get it done? does the 700 bucks cover unlimited hours? who pays for the fuel? what is your time worth? if your just digging in the wide open you can learn fairly fast but, if your working in tight or careful areas it might not pay.
my decision would call the big hoe, its more money but, thats not an area of expertise.
good luck

I assume ( since I didn't read it anywhere, but I'll check) that it covers unlimited hours, but fuel is on my own.
Trees are good.

Raider Bill

The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Ianab

How much material are you needing to move?

If it's going to take 30 hours with a full size machine you might be there till Christmas with a mini machine?

Now for small jobs and confined spaces the mini machines are great. But on a big job it might take 10X as long?

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Holmes

 My first experience with a mini was a rental, 4500 lb machine. I loved it.  It took a short time for me to decide I would not buy a backhoe the mini was that good. I now own a 12,000 kubota grey market mini and its the handiest machine I have ever owned. I put my brother on a mini and 3 hours later I had to ask him if I could borrow it back  :) so I could finish my project.  He said it was addictive.   If you have the time rent one for the week and  go for it .  Enjoy  listen to Raider Bill 8)
Think like a farmer.

husky fan 500

u can always ask your buddies maybe theycan help or know somebody that will do it for a beer and a sandwich. jus t how mini is mini? youre gonna want something more than a power shovel

Holmes

  The 2nd excavator I rented was a Cat 302.5 I think.  It was a handy size capable of a lot of work and had a hydraulic thumb. The bigger the mini the better.
Think like a farmer.

Jeff

Quote from: Raider Bill on February 06, 2014, 01:25:01 PM
Rent it, learn and have fun.

You forgot to tell him to have plenty of fire extinguishers on hand Bill. ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

thecfarm

Why a mini one? No full size ones to rent close to you?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Holmes

Quote from: Jeff on February 06, 2014, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: Raider Bill on February 06, 2014, 01:25:01 PM
Rent it, learn and have fun.

You forgot to tell him to have plenty of fire extinguishers on hand Bill. ;)

I ALMOST forgot about that. ;D
Think like a farmer.

sprucebunny

The excavator controls are very intuitive. I don't think it would take you long to learn the motions to make it do what you want.

Might want to size the machine according to how big your rocks average.

I've been using an older Cat 307 which has a 1/3 yard bucket and can move rocks about the size of a full dress motorcycle.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Ken

Although there are many tricks to every trade if your job is pretty straight forward and you are at least somewhat coordinated you will learn how to run the machine quite quickly.  Another thing to consider is that most rental companies require you to have adequate insurance to cover the equipment which can be quite expensive if you don't already have it. 
Lots of toys for working in the bush

dgdrls

what are you digging for and in what material?

DGDrls

snowstorm

there are 2 different control patterns. cat or john deere. my cat had the jd controls when i bought it. hated it. took all of 5 mins to change it over. what weight class machine was the one at $100 a hr? 

Raider Bill

Sure, catch 1 dozer on fire and nobody forgets. :D :D
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

KBforester

I should provide a little more information. I was keeping it simple just to limit the conversation to a couple of variables...

Right now my woodlot is separated from the road, by about 800 ft of hay field. The field has been picked of all the rocks, its pure (mostly saturated and soft) clay. I can dig by hand, about as easily as you could ever hope for. There is hardly even any organic layer/sod to speak of. I suspect this was one of the fields on my road that was once used grain (late 1800's), based on the old drainage ditches and such. Picture a mud clam flat after thousands of years of ocean levels receding, that's what the property is made of. Maybe if I start digging I'll find some ancient clams still living down there somewhere!  :D

When I had the lot harvested in 2011 we froze the field down, but drove right down my driveway, wove between the house and the barn, nearly taking out my powerline and yard tree in the proses. I'm ok with not having a gravel road, because I never plan to do a commercial timber harvest any other time of the year but winter, but during the spring and the fall my pickup and tractor both cause ruts I would like to avoid. My goal of any excavation is to create ditches and build up the road with the material that is there. The ditches that do exist on the property hold up the adjacent ground amazingly well, while the flat areas that don't drain, you'll sink to china. I have a proposed route that goes right from blacktop to the woods, and would expect to use it for the next commercial harvest in +/- 8 years, as well as throughout the year for myself. I'm cost conscious for the project because the woodlot is small, about 19 acres, and its mostly balsam fir, so there isn't much value there to justify a huge investment.



If I rented- I would start on my ideal route at the most troublesome areas, and improve the other areas if I have time.  So I would move as much material as I could in one week. I likely wouldn't do the whole road. AS for the weight class of the Mini- I don't really know.

If I paid for service- It would be for the whole road, start to finish. I know the contractor, and they do excellent work. But I wouldn't expect for any favors. I don't know which of their excavators they would use to do the job. They wouldn't need a massive one, but it would likely get done faster that way. I'd expect a slight crown on the road, which I would be surprised if I could accomplish on my own.

I don't know of anywhere else that officially rents bigger excavators... but I might be able to find someone else informally. I figured bigger machine bigger liability.

Thanks for the help so far!

Trees are good.

thecfarm

Jim's in Auburn,on Center Street,has some good size ones in thier lot. I suppose they rent them out. But travel time might kill the deal.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Tom King

Just rent one for a day with the understanding that it can apply to a week if needed.  I don't think it will take you a whole week to do that.  The first couple of hours won't be the most efficient, but after that you will be able to move right along.

You're still going to need some more grading other than with the excavator though.

When digging a ditch on fairly flat ground, it needs to be  deeper than you want it to end up, because it will fill some over time.  On a hill, a ditch will get deeper from erosion until grass gets the right conditions to establish, so it doesn't need to be as deep to start with.

The most important thing on a dirt path is that water doesn't cross the road anywhere.  It has to be carried away by the ditches in the worst possible case.

The path also needs to have a crown on it, so water falling on it will run off to the sides, instead of running down the path.

I would dig the ditches with the mini, and hire a motor grader to finish it up, if there is one locally.  It can be done with a grading blade and tractor, but it's best if the tractor is big enough that it can pull a full blade load, and not have to stop and lift the blade because the wheels spin.

I have an 8' grading blade with hydraulic controls that I've built a state spec road with like this before.

This is my first post on these forums.  I'm a member of a number of other Forums on topics that interest me.  Here's what I do for a living:   HistoricHousePreservation.com

Good Luck,
Tom

Jeff

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Tom King. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

doctorb

One more thing I learned from Raider Bill......when, not if, the bulldozer catches fire, have decent cell phone reception.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

martyinmi

Quote from: doctorb on February 08, 2014, 12:19:10 PM
One more thing I learned from Raider Bill......when, not if, the bulldozer catches fire, have decent cell phone reception.
:D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
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5quarter

A nearby farmer had a ROW put over similar terrain, about 600' or so. The road grader had the ditches cut and the ROW built up by lunchtime. They brought in some 3" rock and had it graded and packed by quittin time. He did have a mini on site, but I think they only used it to cut in for the culverts.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

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