axe recomendations

[Redbark]

Need your recommendation on a new forest axe while cutting timber. I have to walk in pretty rough country so it needs to be small enough not to slow me down but have enough weight to drive wedges and keep me out of trouble. Thinking of buying one of those aluminum axe carriers that rides in the small of your back, so handle needs to be long enough to grab.
Thanks, Redbark

[mad murdock]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Redbark!  Which patch of woods is home for you?  Fiskars makes several sized axes with lightweight composite handles, that have a lifetime warannty on them.  I think an x15 would be about the size you would want.  They come with a nice cover/sheath, don't know if the smaller ones have beltloops in them.  If you want to go traditional, checck out Husqvarna, their line of hand forged axes are made by Wetterlings, and are very good quality.  Bailey's (forum sponsor) sells them, as well as the Fiskars, I believe.  If you want the cadillac, Autine Tools by John Neeman, are had crafted top of the line tools!  I think there are some links to vids of how they are made.  You can use the forum search tool and look for "birth of a tool". 

[Offthebeatenpath]

I agree with Mad Murdock.  There are countless decent axe manufacturers out there.  Generally, you get what you pay for. Snow and Neally from Maine makes some fine quality tools, although their older stuff is better in my mind. 

A quick point of clarification- I believe "John Neeman Tools" exists separately from "Autine Tools by John Neeman".  One of their blacksmiths left John Neeman Tools to start Autine and took the Neeman name with him, significantly confusing things.  So there are now two companies.  John Neeman Tools is the original company (and the maker of the amazing tool videos), but I believe Autine has donated to the Forum.  It looks like they both make inspiringly well made tools.

Personally, I prefer finding old axe heads and handling them.

Jed

[mad murdock]

I agree with Mad Murdock.  There are countless decent axe manufacturers out there.  Generally, you get what you pay for. Snow and Neally from Maine makes some fine quality tools, although their older stuff is better in my mind. 

A quick point of clarification- I believe "John Neeman Tools" exists separately from "Autine Tools by John Neeman".  One of their blacksmiths left John Neeman Tools to start Autine and took the Neeman name with him, significantly confusing things.  So there are now two companies.  John Neeman Tools is the original company (and the maker of the amazing tool videos), but I believe Autine has donated to the Forum.  It looks like they both make inspiringly well made tools.

Personally, I prefer finding old axe heads and handling them.

Jed

Thanks for the clarification OTBP,  It is rather confusing.  I like the craftsmanship that goes into the swedish hand forged tools, but I too have old axheads that I have cleaned, and rehung, which are working well for me. The videos put out by USFS "An Axe to grinde", is a very good primer on axe rehabilitation, and use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz3rs-eaN3E

[wfcjr]

Video on Autine is pretty neat....

http://vimeo.com/64534154

One question.... I am surprised that his axes incorporate a forge welding of a strip tool steel in the face of the
ax head to form the cutting edge.   Anyone know if Gransfors Bruks or Wetterlings are similarly constructed?
Do all the higher end, forged axes use this build technique, or do some of them use monolithic, one piece, forged
steel heads? 

I'd be a bit surprise if the material cost difference between the tool steel insert and the steel used for the rest of the
ax head, justifies the increase in labor and processing to achieve the forge weld.

[Jhenderson]

You should not use a high quality axe to drive wedges. It swells the eye and distorts the head.So says Gransfors Bruks. I prefer a 5LB Collins, straight handle,  or it's equivalent. Either Madsens ( my preference) or Bailey's carries them.

[Offthebeatenpath]

I wish I knew more, but I've been told that almost all axes are made with two or more types of steel.  Of course, I forget why...

The Autine videos are cool and perhaps more informative but the videos put out by John Neeman Tools are captivating and amazingly beautiful.  The founder of John Neeman Tools was a videographer before switching gears and working with traditional tools. The first video they put out is this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paCyA9ypEOE

The other videos found at http://www.youtube.com/user/neemantools  are just as inspiring.

[beenthere]

jhenderson
Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I'm thinking the felling wedges are plastic or maybe aluminum, and not the steel wedges like used to split wood. Doubt the plastic would harm the axe.  I usually just drive felling wedges in with a short stick/club that I fashion quickly out of limb wood found in the woods when felling trees. I keep an axe along, or close by, if the saw gets in a bind and then chop it out.

I use what is/has been called a cruisers axe.  But that name has been attributed to so many different styles that I don't think it means much any more.

[thenorthman]

Gransfors brux, are one piece forgings, all tool steel differentialy hardened.



Instead of spending hundreds on a handforged axe your likely to loose just get a Collins  rafting axe with a 28" handle. 3.5-5 pounder  local saw shop has em for like $50. baileys has em a bit cheaper.

personally I have 2 I use regularly my trusty ole Craftsman 3.5# and a newer 5# Collins, which one I grab depends on how big the wood I'll be tackling is.  However the 5#er is not so bad to drag around all day, and it will smear a lower quality wedge pretty quick like.  The craftfsman has a slightly smaller handle so it fits in the belt loop a little better and doesn't fall out like the Collins, although with one of them aluminium carriers it wouldn't be an issue.

[moojpg]

What do you all prefer for carrying an axe? I personally have issues with leaving the cutting edge exposed on the small of my back or waist, especially if I'm climbing and need something to drive a wedge while I'm blocking down a tree. I've always been worried about falling on it or having it nick a rope.

[thenorthman]

Ok history lesson...

The reason old axes had the harder piece on the blade side is purely because high carbon steel is a pain to make by hand, unless you have a bessemer forge laying around and 15-20 people to keep it fed for a month...

So smiths of old would make small batches of high carbon steel, usually by case hardening small pieces and then folding them together (lots of work...) they would then take the standard wrought iron and forge weld a piece of the high carbon where the blade would go.  While it worked, many times the high carbon would pop out during hard use, or if the weld is iffy before the *DanG  thing was even finished.

Flash forward the the 1800's the bessemer forge was invented and high carbon steel became easy to mass produce, now anybody can afford high carbon steel and have it shipped to your front door overnight.  So the only reason to make anything be it axes, knives, scissors... whatever out of 2 types of steel is purely for traditional reasons. 

That being said pattern welded viking swords are still wicked cool, and cable demascus knives are just fun to make (but not worth the $1000's people are charging for them)

[wfcjr]

Ok history lesson...

So the only reason to make anything be it axes, knives, scissors... whatever out of 2 types of steel is purely for traditional reasons. 

)

Thanks for the explanation.. I thought it a bit odd.
Clearly a case where traditional construction is more likely to be less robust than a one piece head.

[Magicman]

Wow, Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Redbark, Jhenderson, and moojpg.  How 'bout that for three new members on the same thread.   

[Magicman]

No way will my axe that was built especially for me by John Neeman immediately after he recovered from his burns ever see the backside of a wedge.   


 

[beenthere]

That would be akin to using a crescent wrench for a hammer. 

[CCC4]

Personally I use a caveman club to drive wedges. If I was going to carry an ax...which I am leaning towards doing...it would be one of these jewels

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/111266159316?lpid=82

[moojpg]

Thanks for the welcome. I normally frequent arboristsite but the site has been all wonky lately so I figured I would migrate lol I own a small tree and rope access company in western MA. We work on high rise buildings, install ropes courses, teach rock climbing/caving, as well as tree work. We do mostly climbing arborist work and the occasional tricky removal. I have done some contract timber cutting to clear roads for a proposed wind power project. Most of my experience is on large red oak, maple, and white pine. I am kind of a chainsaw addict  and we have way too much capital in saws ranging from the MS200t's all the way up to a couple ms660's, an ms880, and a mint condition Stihl 090 (all of which are rare around here for sure the 372xp is considered a big saw by most in this region) and most of the desirable husky's. Figure I can learn a few tricks from those of you in the logging industry as ya'll spend a lot more time felling trees than I ever will. I always pride myself in being proficient with a saw and being able to fell a tree accurately in a residential setting, when I have the room, saves us hours of work over the pop up tree hacks running around in bucket trucks piecing down trees that could just be felled and bucked. Also allows me to save some of the logs for milling. Nobody saves the nicer large diameter logs for milling around here either, all of it either sits to rot because they don't have the saw to cut it, or it gets hacked up for firewood which just frustrates the hell out of me.

To get back on topic, I've always just carried a small sledge hammer for driving wedges and kept an axe with my gas can. I've always been too afraid of tripping and falling on the axe head if it were on my belt, for whatever reason. I second the Fiskars axe for real world use, the composite handle is bullet proof, they stay sharp, and they aren't $100+ if u lose it or trash it. That Neeman axe is gorgeous but I don't see the point of using one of those for work every day.

[CCC4]

I frequent alot of caves in my area...good stuff! Welcome to the forum!

[mad murdock]

Welcome moojpg and jhenderson. moojpg, sounds like some interesting and fun work you do!!

[Offthebeatenpath]

Welcome to the forum guys!  Moojpg- where in Western Mass are you?

Jed

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Being still fairly new to the forum I did not know the connection between John Neeman and this great forum.  I also did not know the connection between John Neeman Tools and Autine other than sharing the John Neeman name.  Knowing that you long time members helped get John Neeman back going again after his accident speaks volumes towards the integrity of everyone here! 

Now knowing the story and the connection, the price tag on them does not mean anything to me. I want 2 of any of their tools one to hang on the wall as art and one to use in the woods (I know what I am saving for when x-mas comes around).  This forum never stops amazing me!

[g_man]

wfcjr, I really enjoyed that video. Thanks for putting it up there.
I doubt if the ancient Craftsman Campers Axe that I keep  in the tractor was made that way. It's a pain to carry so I try to find/make a club first.

[Big timber little dozer]

Am i still considered new

[mad murdock]

Welcome to the Logging thread BigTlittleD 8) 8)

[treechopper40]

fiskars makes a realy nice axe comes with a lifetime warranty and you can get them rate at your local wallmart I got one and I realy like it