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new member clearing land for house

Started by emanaresi, February 05, 2014, 09:15:28 AM

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emanaresi

I am new here and new to forestry.  We own 41 acres of woodlands in southern NJ, and we have a profesionaly forestry management plan in place, bu tI really don't know what I am doing.

We are about to begin clearing about 1.5 acres to build a home on it.  We are building a timber frame home, but I will save that for discussion on the other forum.  Our trees are mostly pine, many being large and well over 50 years old (according to our state forester).  As I clear the land, I want to have the excavator save as many of the useful logs that could be sawn into useful lumber.  However, I don't know where to draw the line between good logs and firewood.

So, what is the diameter of a tree that I should have saved (both pine and oak).  How long of a straight section with few or no limbs is required?  How long should I have the logs cut? 

My plan is to have a mobile saw mill come once the lot is clear and saw the logs into wood that I can later plane into trim boards and whatever else I might need.


Mark Wentzell

Do you have the blue prints for the home you are planning to build yet? It should indicate how many timbers and of what dimensions are required. This will determine how long you need to have the logs cut as well. Maybe talk to your builder.

The portable sawmiller that you bring in will likely have their own specs as to minimum log size. Maybe see if they'll walk the area with you before the trees are felled, so they can mark out any trees they think are worth sawing.

thecfarm

emanaresi,welcome to the forum.

As I clear the land, I want to have the excavator save as many of the useful logs that could be sawn into useful lumber. 

Are you going to be cutting the trees? How will the logs be moved,by the excavator? That will take time and he will want to be paid for that.Ask him to be nice to the logs, Try not to drag them through the dirt.
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Raider Bill

Just a suggestion from something I learned. You can clear trees away fast but it takes them a long time to grow them back.

I got a bit carried away.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Dave Shepard

Like Mark said, you really need the plans in order to start getting your timber logs together, but it sounds like that may not be an option. I would just save out the good logs and stage them until you can get your plan together. An 8"x8" timber needs about a 12" diameter, on the smaller end, log that is straight. I would take the best log you can get out of each tree that is straight and has the least knots possible. With the exception of brace stock, you probably won't use many 8' logs, and maybe not many 10' logs either, unless you design for it.

Do you have an idea of the style frame you will be cutting? A typical hall and parlor colonial might use a bunch of 18'+ posts. A cape you might not need such tall posts. Plates and sills will be longish, even if you scarf them from two timbers. Will you be using timber rafters, or is this a hybrid with 2x rafters? Rafters can be long, so may need some longer logs for those.

There are a lot of things to consider, so the more we know the better we can help with sizing the logs. Does NY allow native lumber?
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Leigh Family Farm

Welcome to the Forum! Where in south Jersey are you located?

Check out Jswigga's website www.lockmanhardwoods.com. He is located in NJ (just outside Philadelphia-ish) and also has a brand new TK mill to ruin on some Jersey Devil Pine Barren toothpicks! I think he might be a good source to help with seeing which trees can be turned into house material.

Also, if you're not too too far away, I might swing by for a visit...once the weather cooperates and the arctic circle retreats back into Canada  ;)
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, emanaresi.
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emanaresi

It seems I was not clear in my post. The trees are not needed for our timbers.  Our timber framer is in Maine and he allready fell and had milled the timbers from EWP sourced in Maine.  I just don't want to throw away good trees that need to come down anyway.  I will need to buy a lot of trim lumber and if I can take a bunsh of it out of the trees we are taking down, that will be a good thing.  It would have been great to build the frame from our trees, but it just wasnt practical. 

I did check out lockman hardwoods website today and I think I will give him a call tomorrow to see what his recomendation is. I am marking trees on Sat and the excavator is moving in as soon as he deems it dry enough.

I believe the excavators plan is to push over the trees with a track hoe and then cut the root ball off and the crown.  I will have him save for me anything that I decide is large and straight enough to be useful (or interesting curves or crotches).


beenthere

Welcome emanaresi.

I cut oak logs for all the flooring, trim, jambs, and paneling in my home and all logs were cut 8' plus trim (8'6").
The logs were easy to handle, the lumber was easy to sticker/stack for air drying, the lumber was easy to handle for sorting by grade and then taking to a millwork shop for all the processing.
To me, saves a lot for the DIY guy in handling labor, not having to deal with longer lengths.
south central Wisconsin
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David-L

I would be on the cautious side pushing trees over with frozen ground as trees can fracture and then you got lumber that is useless. The ones that you want to mill for sure you should have a logger or other cut them and lay them down to sleep. Frozen rootballs that don't want to move , the the operator moves further up the tree to get more leverage could be not so good. JMO.

                                                                            David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Peter Drouin

I agree with David-L they will just make a mess of the trees. Pushing is the lazy way of doing it. And sometimes when you pick them up using the thumb be careful not to crush the log. I know it can be done, I own a 22 ton  excavator  ;D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Leigh Family Farm

This is a general question pertaining to the topic: can a homeowner fell the trees then have an excavator come into get the stumps? Is this practical? What I mean is that if I needed 1.5 acres cleared out and I went in (I'm not a logger) to cut down the trees so they all fell in the same general direction, would this be easier or harder for the excavator to work?

It seems to me that a full weekend of felling trees would knock out the 1.5 acres. And then another weekend of bucking and labeling the logs. And then a finaly weekend of stacking all the logs with a borrowed FEL (or log arch & capstan winch) and the excavator removing the stumps. Is this also possible?

I'm just trying to think of other options since none of the logs will be used for framing and can be handled a little more roughly.
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

emanaresi

My excavator would prefer that I do not make a mess that he has to clean up as he goes in and removes the stumps.  I wil let him do his work and slavage whatever we can from the better trees.  I'll let you guys know how it goes. 

btw, attached is a pic of the frame design




Ianab

Quotecan a homeowner fell the trees then have an excavator come into get the stumps? Is this practical?

You could do it that way, but it's harder for the excavator to remove the stumps. No leverage like they have on a whole tree, so they have to dig the stump out. Just takes longer.

A good excavator operator can just push a normal tree over, then pick up the whole thing with the thumb. You trim the root ball and top off, and he puts the log in the stack.

Probably take less time to do this than dig out the stump. AND you get the logs stacked up in a tidy pile at the same time.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

emanaresi

Quote from: Ianab on February 06, 2014, 02:28:38 PM
A good excavator operator can just push a normal tree over, then pick up the whole thing with the thumb. You trim the root ball and top off, and he puts the log in the stack.

Probably take less time to do this than dig out the stump. AND you get the logs stacked up in a tidy pile at the same time.


That is the plan.  The excavator is our neighbor and has a very good reputation in our area.  It won't be the end of the world is some of the logs are slightly damaged either. 

David-L

Lately I have been hand chopping some veneer oak and prime and select. When wood is as frozen as this year in the northeast  i would not let an excavator near any wood if you plan on milling it. I have noticed the 3rd and 4th logs on these trees i am cutting to have some fracture damage if not laid down right. Yes those logs are #2 and pallet but still have value. maybe someone working with your operator to keep the mess at a minimum would be a win win.

                                              David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

Peter Drouin

I bet he limes the tree with the excavator too. It can be done  :D :D :D


  

 
but I did cut them down . Very low grade w pine :D :D
And chip the brush


 

Best of luck with your new home emanaresi.
When you get the house up we would like to see some pics of it
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Leigh Family Farm

Thanks Ian. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. Good luck with the clearing!
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

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