cucumber tree

[Rod]

Is that the wood they call whitewood out at Lowe's?

[Tom]

White wood at Lowe's is Hemlock and Amabilis Fir  Commercially catagorized as Hem-Fir.

http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/wilderness/forest/amabilis.htm

There is a Cucumber tree in Indonesia
http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Oxalidaceae/Averrhoa_bilimbi.html
but, the Cucumber Magnolia is a North American species of Magnolia.

Bull Bay (Grandiflora) and Sweet bay are used for furniture in the south, once upon a time for flooring.  It isn't a commercially available lumber tree but is sold as pulp.  Cucumber Magnolia falls in the same catagory but is considered endangered in Northern reaches.
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/magnolia/accuminata.htm

[Rod]

Tom, around here you can sale the butt log and they cut it up and sale it as yellow poplar.I was thinking that maybe they were using the rest of the cucumber tree for trim and saling it as white wood .I couldn't tell what kind of wood it was cause it's only about 1/4''x 3 1/2''

Thanks

[Tom]

Designations like "Whitewood" are the same to me as "mystery meat" at the greasy spoon resturant.  You might be right that some of that wood is finding its way to the trim shelf.  One of those links I found suggest that it is sold as yellow poplar in the appalachians.  We don't market it down here except from little 'coffee pot' mills cutting special orders.

It being a hardwood, I wouldn't think that it would be mixed with softwoods as a commercial product.  Usually broad-leaf and conifers are kept separate, drying differences being one of the first reasons that comes to mind.  Lord only knows what marketing schemes the big Box stores will come up with.  

[Ron Wenrich]

I haven't looked at the white wood section at Lowe's.  I see enough white wood during the week.  I would guess that a lot of white wood might be aspen.  Saws and planes nice, and looks pretty.  Easy to work for the novice.  

We rarely have any cucumber in this neck of the woods.  After you get up on the Appalachian plateau you start running into it.  It gets lumped into tulip poplar.  A lot of tulip gets turned into trim.  

[Frickman]

I don't go to Lowe's so I don't know what they are selling as "whitewood". As stated above, we have alot of cucumber here in the Appalachians. It is commonly mixed into tulip poplar, as it is very similar in appearance. It's working properties after drying are a little different though. It seems to be a little harder when dry, and more prone to splitting. Some customers insist that no cucumber be mixed in with tulip poplar as it causes problems later on. We saw alot of it into barn lumber, as minor splits and checks are not detrimental.

[ppeterson]

I can tell you what white wood is. I worked for a dimension plant for 6 years that produced it.

It is Aspen and we specialized in it. Problem was, it is considered a weed tree and the prices reflected that.

I handled the sales for the plant, ripping in excess of 18,000 bf per 8 hour shift. We thought that that was good production, but it was not enough.
The plant is now closed.

In the end. we leaned towards making drawer sides, but it was too late. Imports from the western countries took it's toll.
Commity rules in this market.

Commanding the price needed to produce he wood, the margins were not sufficient.

The plant was originally built to produce door core out of Aspen and Basswood lumber. At the time the plant was built, the market was very good for this product. But, it soon changed to fiber related prodcts, destroying the solid lumber market due to stability.

Back to the question a hand: "Hobby Boards" in white woods, are Aspen.

Up side: Big Box users are still using Aspen, Oak and Maple.
Problem is: you had better be producing large volumes, as the margin is controled by them. THEY HAVE THE POWER!

If you do get tied to a Big Box store, be prepared to: distribute product, stock shelves, dust the shelves, etc.

Answer: Better to have NITCHE markets.
As we all have, RIGHT!!

ppeterson

[Rod]

I go to Lowe's a lot cause it's a lot cheaper then the other lumber stores.

If your interested here is their price list of whitewood at the local store I go to


http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productList&catalogId=TOP_CHOICE_2_WHITEWOOD_BOARDS

[RMay]

I bookmarked Lowe's lumber prices looks like my lumber is on the cheap side  : 1in.by 6 in. by 8 ft. is $27.28

[Fla._Deadheader]

   Roy, here, it is $5.15. Ya want me to fetch ya a bunch??? ;D :D :D :D :D

[RMay]

This is 500 BF of red oak I deliverd monday to a wholesaler I;m hoping it will grade 70 cents a bf  :

[Ron Wenrich]

What kind of quality do you have in that red oak?  I get 60 cents for fence boards.  I would think you could average better than 70 cents unless you picked through it or it is poor quality.

The uppers are around $1.40 and 1 com is 90 cents.  

[RMay]

Ron FAS red oak is $1150 /m and for the # 1C red oak is priced by the hardwood Market report @ time of shipment + $50/ m  and the # 2C red oak HMR@TOS - $20/M , The 3A is $300/m & 3B is $200/m . I did pick the 3A & 3b out of it  :

[Ron Wenrich]

Amazing how much markets change from one area to the next.  I've been hearing reports of the 3 Com going for around $500/Mbf.  Flooring companies are sucking it up.

Tie prices cause the others to remain pretty high.  If they drop the price of 1 and 2 com, it goes into ties and the wholesalers can't get enough.  Oak ties are $22.

[Sawyerfortyish]

I've been getting .85 for low grade oak and can't keep up with the demand for 16' 1x6. The local lumber yard is getting almost 9.00 for 16' 1x6 i'm at 6.80 and thinking about raising the price for 16' lumber. I can't get 16' logs in fast enough to cut. Tried in some other big mills down south to buy some trailer loads of 16' 1x6 but was told all the lumber that was used for fencing is now going into flooring.
  70 cents a foot sounds cheap for the better grades. I think I would look around for a different market. But like Ron said funny how the market varrys from one place to another

[Kevin_H.]

I have been getting about 75 cents a board foot for oak 1 x 6 x 16' fence boards.

Still finding it hard to get the longer logs hauled in. too many of them are going to make Heavy equipt. mats.

We are sawing alot of blocking logs, I would love to saw nice grade logs, but we have a problem getting rid of the 1c and 2c stuff.

[RMay]

Does anyone know if Hardwood Market Report has a discount member ship for part time sawer's : $200. per year is more than I  wont to spend  on a membership .

[Tom]

Sometimes you can get your local library to subscribe.  Many of the publications will give them a subscription if they ask.

You can ask.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Frank_Pender]

White wood out here on the West Coast is more often that not two species, Western Hemlock and Grand Fir.  I do not know what Hemlock is going for but, Grand Fir (White Fir) is going for around $350m, if you are lucky.  :'( It weighs in at about 1 1/2 times the Douglas Fir at the same dimension.  It often costs more to log the Grand Fir due to wieght and limb count.   The limbs often resemble the hair on a mangy dog, thick and kinky.

[DR Buck]

You guys are giving your fence boards away!  Here in N. VA if you can find them they cost in excess of $7.25 each.  Thats $.90 a board foot.  Problem is all the farm stores and co-ops have waiting lists 2 months or more for fence boards.   If I had the logs, I could sell 16 ft 1x6's for $.90 bf or more all day long.

Dave

[Sawyerfortyish]

I'm at .85 or 6.80 for 16' 1x6. But anyone that orders from now on the boards will be 7.25. I guess it all comes down to supply and demand.

[Tom]

Supply and Demand certainly makes a difference.  I think the real goal is to get the customer to come to your store rather than the other store and for you to make money at that price rather than trying to match someone else's price.

How much would you have to charge to make money on your boards if you didn't know what anybody else was charging?  That's the mark you have to hit first.

[Sawyerfortyish]

Charge what the market will bear that seems to be the way things are. Dr-buck is probabley in horse country like me. Everyone that has 6 acres has horses and is considerd a farm here. Lumber is for fencing as well as installing it is very high. A fence guy told me the other day the going rate for installing fencing is 8 to 10.00 a foot for three rail. He doesn't think he's charging enough at that because he gets every job he looks at. Which brings me to think that I don't charge enough for boards. No one says let me get back to you. They say how soon can I have them. So I say charge what the market will bear.

[Tom]

I can't argue that!

The point I was trying to make is that you have to make money and it takes customers to make money.  If you are turning them away that's one thing.  If they are going somewhere else, that's another (and not good).

Too many folks price their wares on what they deem the competition to be.  An example where that doesn't work too good is the 2x4 stud in the box store.  It's just too hard for a one-man-operation band mill to compete with a computerized saw that is turning out 100,000 feet in a day with 5 employees.

Some enterprising sawyer is going to be creating fence boards with a gang saw and producing fence at a lot less than the typical back-yard sawyer.  

To base your charges on those bigger mills may be folly.

That's why I think one should ask himself,  "what do I need to charge to make money".  That doesn't mean that you are limited to that amount, only that you are starting off in the black.

[Ron Wenrich]

Most guys don't know how to figure that out.  They figure if the guy up the road can produce a product for X amount of dollars, than so should I.  

Comparing mills prices to store prices isn't necessarily a good deal, either.  Box stores have a ton of overhead more than the mill.  There are also pieces that just won't sell since they don't make a saleable product.

We don't advertise, and we don't really care if people buy off of us.  We have other outlets for the material.  To us, its just a little extra gravy.

I always love when a customer comes in, takes 15 minutes of an operators time, then picks through a lumber pile and leaves it a mess.  Not really worth the extra cash.

Now, if a guy wants to order fence boards ahead of time and let me cut them when I have the time and logs, that's a different story.  We run a sawmill, not a lumber yard.  There's a difference.