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Sawing Hard maple - holy smokes!

Started by MNBobcat, February 01, 2014, 10:16:37 AM

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MNBobcat

Hi Guys,

I normally burn oak.  I just bought 10 cords of 8 foot logs with mixed hardwoods.  Mostly maple and ash.  Oak is hard to find this year due to the extreme colds and demand for wood.  First year I've ever bought wood.  Normally am out cutting oak in the woods myself.

My dad had always talked about how hard "Rock maple" is.  I'm not sure what kind of maple this is but man is it hard to cut.  I know the answer is a really sharp chain but aside from that....should I be thinking about a skip chain or something?  Is there anything I can do that might make the job easier?  I'm building a lot of heat on the chain and bar trying to cut this stuff.  Its really a dense wood.

When I first tried to cut it I actually stopped to see if I had put my chain on backwards!

I have a Husky 562XP with 20" bar running an Oregon 73LGX072G : 3/8" pitch chisel chain


weimedog

Power
Sharp Chain
Aggressive raker's


Most of what I cut is Hard maple. Last couple of years Ash because of that emerald ash borer, but now back to Hard Maple.

To drop those trees I typically have a 372 class saw with an 18 inch bar.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

ehp

I have cut alot of rock maple as that is the tree we all want to cut as its worth the most , if wood is frozen then you need to cut the rackers more than what the stock chain comes with , make sure your chain is sharp and a very good point on the tooth and set the chain up so your not pushing on the saw , the saw should feed itself into the wood

Andyshine77

I haven't found LGX to last all that long in some of the harder types of wood I cut, Stihl RS or RM which is semi-chisel chain would likely give you better production.
Andre.

celliott

Quote from: MNBobcat on February 01, 2014, 10:16:37 AM
My dad had always talked about how hard "Rock maple" is.  I'm not sure what kind of maple this is but man is it hard to cut.

"Rock maple" and "Hard maple" are the same species as "Sugar maple", Acer saccharum. Many common names, regional names, but the scientific name is always the right one  ;)
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

Al_Smith

I hear people talking about so called rock maple like it's hard as a rock .Now if it's frozen it likely is .However from my perspective it isn't all that hard .Beech is hard ,osage orange is hard ,EAB killed ash is hard .

Chains I don't change chains for everything I cut unless it's a stump .It's all just plain old round filed chisel .If it gets dull I file it .

H 2 H

Quote from: Andyshine77 on February 01, 2014, 07:10:25 PM
I haven't found LGX to last all that long in some of the harder types of wood I cut, Stihl RS or RM which is semi-chisel chain would likely give you better production.

I found that out about that Oregon chain also
Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

Andyshine77

Quote from: Al_Smith on February 01, 2014, 07:50:58 PM
I hear people talking about so called rock maple like it's hard as a rock .Now if it's frozen it likely is .However from my perspective it isn't all that hard .Beech is hard ,osage orange is hard ,EAB killed ash is hard .

Chains I don't change chains for everything I cut unless it's a stump .It's all just plain old round filed chisel .If it gets dull I file it .

I must agree, locust is another tough species.
Andre.

ladylake


With the band saw maple saws fairly easy in the summer, saws real hard when frozen.  Ash saws about the same froze or not.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

brettl

I thing you have the right ideas in your post. Sharp chains and possibly a bar size smaller than you would use on a softer wood of similar size and moisture content. I cut hedge, and I've never yet found a wood harder on equipment. I've cut varieties of oak, ash, and maple among others and found nothing to compare to a well seasoned piece of dry hedge. Live hedge cuts easier but the sap is incredibly messy and hard to wash off of anything. Back on subject, same things I do to cut hedge: sharp chains, smaller bar or more power than I'd use on oak, ash, etc. of similar size. Give your saw a break more often than normal too. Have fun and be safe.

coxy

what every one else says sharp chain  black birch and iron wood is hard too  and the knots on pine and hemlock have had them snap the teeth of a chain when frozen

nk14zp

I have never had any trouble bucking up rock maple with my 254xp 20" bar and 3.25 chain.  I do run my rakers lower than most.
Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
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CR888

Down under we see our fair share of very dirty dry wood. Its hard on your cutting equipment, your air filter and nostrils. I cut wood today that would positively ruin full chisel chain in one or two cuts (24" dead dry swomp gum). It won't just get blunt but it actually damages the leading edge quite bad. As much as l like full chisel chain and enjoy filing it semi chisel will get far more work done and be far more 'cost effective'. I find 30* /60* works well and a flocked air filter opposed to nylon is better. Full chisel is great on the pole saw or limbing saw in clean green wood. I know it goes against the grain as lots use f/chiz with good results I'm other parts of the globe. They do here to more in higher rainfall areas that don't see prolonged drought. Hope this helps...Colin

MNBobcat

Quote from: H 2 H on February 01, 2014, 08:26:09 PM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on February 01, 2014, 07:10:25 PM
I haven't found LGX to last all that long in some of the harder types of wood I cut, Stihl RS or RM which is semi-chisel chain would likely give you better production.

I found that out about that Oregon chain also

It is frozen.  Its -20F!

Jiles

That wood is tough but the toughest I ever cut was Ironwood! They gave it a proper name!!
Satisfy needs before desires

Andyshine77

Quote from: MNBobcat on February 02, 2014, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: H 2 H on February 01, 2014, 08:26:09 PM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on February 01, 2014, 07:10:25 PM
I haven't found LGX to last all that long in some of the harder types of wood I cut, Stihl RS or RM which is semi-chisel chain would likely give you better production.



I found that out about that Oregon chain also

It is frozen.  Its -20F!

That is what you said, my advice is still valid. I cut frozen wood as well, not -20 but definitely sub zero, and I honestly never found Maple difficult to cut. Now bucking Pignut Hickory like I did last week is a different story.

Again if you've having issues keeping a sharp chain, try a loop of Stihl RM.
Andre.

ehp

rock maple is hard maple but lots of people tap red maple for sugar which is not the same tree and red maple is alot softer , Most people that call maple rock maple like up north where I use to live is because it grows on pretty much rock and maybe a couple inches of soil , The rock puts alot of mineral in the wood which makes alot harder than hard maple down here which is more sand or clay . -20 is just an average day for most loggers up north , this winter they have seen alot of -40 temps and wood cuts alot different in that temp

Al_Smith

Now hickory is another one .Not all that bad if it's green .Tough as a rock if it's dead or dried out .

I've only gotten into frozen wood once in my life time .It was probabley ten below and the subject wood was honey locust dropped green in the fall .Enormous  thing over 4 feet in diameter the trimmers dropped off .I was attempting to noodle it down to some size I could handle

I threw every thing I owned at it including a 125 McCulloch  .Gave it up for a lost cause ,waited til spring. 

ehp

Al , a chain that cuts in warmer weather will cut in cold weather but pretty slow , now go the other way and the cold weather chain doesnot cut in warm weather very good , rackers are way to low , You can take just about any chain and it will cut wood but to make a chain cut maple or oak when its frozen like your cutting softwood that is the difference , time is money for some of us , honestly down here I donot find any wood hard and I have cut pretty much all types being so close to Lake Erie I see pretty much everything from NC north as far as trees types go but I think its because what type of ground the tree grows on

Al_Smith

I don't go to all the trouble to change the rakers .Besides that if it's cold enough to freeze the tail off a brass monkey I stay by the fire and enjoy a beverage or six .I froze my tail feathers off as young man ,ainta gonna do it no mo . ;D

coxy

Quote from: Al_Smith on February 02, 2014, 07:58:12 PM
I don't go to all the trouble to change the rakers .Besides that if it's cold enough to freeze the tail off a brass monkey I stay by the fire and enjoy a beverage or six .I froze my tail feathers off as young man ,ainta gonna do it no mo . ;D
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

MNBobcat

Thanks guys.  I'm installing a new bar and new chain around Wednesday when they arrive and will give it another go then.

Sounds like I should try a semi-chisel on it, too.    I'll see how it goes but if these chains dull quick I may need to switch.  The maple has been sitting about 3 years and its definitely tough going.  When you pick it up you can feel how dense it is.   Doesn't chip the same as oak, either.  Interesting stuff!


SwampDonkey

I find yellow birch, beech and rock maple are pretty much the same density and weight when dried 12%. White oak is only slightly higher for density and no heavier when dried 12%. The big difference is when white oak is green, that stuff has a lot more water. Look at the numbers from Hoadley or USDA Wood Hand Book and squash the myths. I would suggest a sharp chain is in order cutting that maple, I have never had trouble sawing rock maple, just letting it work into the wood and not bearing down on the saw at all. And all I use is 55 CC saws, 18" bars.

And sugar maple is not the only hard maple, it also includes black maple. And it too can be tapped for liquid gold. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

I don't think any of it is really all that hard if cut green .Ironwood maybe but how often do you cut it and besides that it never gets really large .

90 percent of the stuff I cut is either standing dead or downed trees .Hard to me and hard as someone else says really aren't the same meaning .

SwampDonkey

I wouldn't even call ironwood much of a tree other than the fact it's a pretty dense wood. It doesn't grow any bigger than pin cherry and I can make sparks fly off a brush saw blade in pin cherry. I have seen both pretty big in girth only, but on good soil. Out where I cut most of the cherry is sandy till and poor soil so the pin cherry don't get too big. Back of the house here I  have some 14-16" pin cherry, but only 50 feet up or so, not very tall and by now not much good for anything. I have seen large diameter ironwood on abandoned farm fence rows, but again no height, maybe 60 feet max, and that's a big maybe. But ironwood is bad like our beech for taking over an understory in a maple stand. So if you have a sugar bush and just do light thinning by taking beech and ironwood, you have a mighty thick growth of ironwood and beech under there as a result. ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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